When to introduce the villain?

Sometimes the bad guy or gal or thing is introduced through the results of their villainy - the children are missing or the villagers are cowering or the land is fouled or the waters are boiling or the chocolate is gone.

These results should be the basis for the storyline of the book - the story being the protagonist's quest to remedy the bad situation(s).

You can have a pretty successful quest story without ever seeing the villain if He/she/it is vanquished somehow and the bad stuff resolved by the end.

But the bad stuff must be introduced early or there's nothing for the protagonist to do.

PS I'm the Queen of Condensing, so I think there's no story so big it can't be reduced to one book (and that includes Tolkein!)

Geraint said:

Thanks RD (and Darzian), I'm sure that's very sensible advice. And if I'd discovered AW a few years back I'm sure I would have taken it. But I'm afraid I'm in too deep now, after a good few years of turning the plot over in my head and sketching out all sorts of scenes and events... I really can't now imagine condensing it into one book - I think I'd find it easier to write an entirely new novel! (Which might not be a bad idea - a sort of prequel to the series in my head...)

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You don't necessarily have to condense the entire story into one book. Instead, make sure that the first book is a stand alone with series potential. ie. the first book should have a proper beginning, middle and ending. Even in a series, I prefer it if each book has a story of its own with a proper ending. I would advise against leaving it with a powerful cliffhanger and no proper resolution.

Geraint said:

Thanks RD (and Darzian), I'm sure that's very sensible advice. And if I'd discovered AW a few years back I'm sure I would have taken it. But I'm afraid I'm in too deep now, after a good few years of turning the plot over in my head and sketching out all sorts of scenes and events... I really can't now imagine condensing it into one book

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Don't believe it, Geraint! If it seems like writing 3-4 novels off a few plot ideas is smooth sailing compared to finishing a single novel from scratch then you haven't dealt yet with broken throughlines, weak character arcs, poor dialogue, turgid scenes and narrative sloppy as blowtorched brie.

No matter how long they've taken you to produce, plot ideas are cheap. It's all the stuff above, and the character design problems beneath them, that are expensive to corrrect.

I'm sorry to tell you that the hard work is probably ahead of you, not behind. The very best thing you can do to reduce the interminable revisions likely awaiting you is to write a single, simple, well-resolved plot and keep it absolutely focused on a handful of your best, most passionate, most conflicted characters. It may take the ideas of more than one book to produce that, but you must have that in your first book. So condense if that's what it takes to put your first-rate ideas together and winnow your second-rate ideas ruthlessly. Once you hit revision time, you'll be so glad you did.

Yours in egg-sucking advice,

Ruv.

I agree with Ruv Draba. Too many books these days spread over stuff, where content could be better done if it's with just the best stuff in one or two books.

As to the villain thing, another thought might be to have him/her/it appear in the beginning of the book -- not a prologue, mind you -- but not have it obvious that he/she/it is the bad guy, so that could add tension as the protag finds out the hard way who this person really is.

Geraint said:

I'm pretty proud of my plot, you know? But after cursing you in my sleep for a few hours, I've woken up with some thoughts about how I might get a stand-alone out of it. Plus, from some feedback I've received on SYW I've realised that cutting out words makes my story stronger. I'm not there yet but starting to think about it seriously.

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Good luck to you, Geraint! Since you seem to start with plot first (as do I), let me offer two tools: one helps you work out which parts of your plot are worth keeping; the other helps you make any part of your plot better.

The first tool is called 'so what'. It helps protect you from being too impressed by 'big-budget' special effects and focus on character impacts. It's best shown by illustration, so here goes:

Ah.... That's what makes this bit of the story important. It's not a story of rings and volcanoes but a story of friendship and hardship and trust.

So what takes your plot ideas and turns them into deep, inner character conflicts. Unless you love revisions you must not start writing your plot until you've so-whatted it to death.

The second tool I'd like to offer you comes from author, editor and writing coach Sol Stein. It's called Secret Snapshot.

Imagine an image that's so personal and private that you'd never even keep it in your wallet. You'd never show it to a friend or family. Especially not a friend or family.

What is it?


Why is that image important? What does it mean to you?


Now, how does that connect to your story? To your characters?

What this does, Geraint, is help you write from passion -- not just from clever and wow. When we see Frodo and Bilbo struggling up the mountain, we don't just see conflict. We feel Tolkien's understanding of friendship and what it costs. And why it's worth it.

If you're a writer who thinks of plots first, I believe that this is the most important thing to learn. It will make even your second-rate ideas first-rate.

Very best of luck with your endeavours!

Ruv has, as always, put it so well there's almost no need to add anything.

When we see Frodo and Bilbo struggling up the mountain, we don't just see conflict. We feel Tolkien's understanding of friendship and what it costs. And why it's worth it.

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*cough* Sam *cough*In effect we see Tolkien's own personal snapshot of his experience in the trenches of WWI, and knowing that makes it even more pogniant imo.

I'd have to second / third / whatever the idea of each book should be kinda stand alone, even if there are interlinking plots / characters. Each book should have it's own arc and resolution ( even if you leave a few things loose for the next, the main problem should be resolved). I can't tell you how it gets on my pecs to read a book only to find it's basically all a set up for book 2, that there is no resolution. Book 2 rarely gets read.

IdiotsRUs said:

*cough* Sam *cough*

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Sheesh.