English-only, please.

Zoombie

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All this talk of having a single language bring us together is fine.

...why does it need to be legislated? We don't need some higher authority to come in and tell us what language to speak or how to speak it or where to speak it.

People should be free to talk in whatever way makes them understood to the people they're talking to.
 

maxmordon

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90% of any movies on theaters here in Venezuela for teenagers or above is in English with subtitles, same deal with cable television, same deal with most of scientific, academic or literary books of reknown. Easily 80% of the Internet is in English. We, humankind, in our post-industrial society, feed on information and most of this information passes through the filter which I write these very same words. There are natives living right here in the Amazon that speaks not a single word of Spanish or Portuguese, but can get their way in English, thanks to anthropologists and tourists.

English has extensive material on its history and roots and variations from each county of Great Britain to XIX Century pidgin (both in the Atlantic and the Pacific and which port), Ebonics, the Boston Brahmins, the different inflection of each minority in the five burroughs of New York City, and know why the flipping heck Californians abuse the "like".

In short, English is the most used, documented and studied language in the history of the known universe. So, it's not exactly a fair balance between the two. Is it?


English classes are difficult, lenghty, and often much more expensive than what the family of your average illegal immigrant could afford. When they're taught in public school, they are ludicrously inaccurate to the point of hilariousness.

I remember in my last year of high school having to explain to my best friend the "To be" verb over and over. (I'm, you're, he or she is, etc.) It's quite irregular and sometimes it goes back and forth too, I feel that, while my written English is decent enough, my spoken English is awfully rusty and due to having picked up from different sources (1950's BBC radio series, 90's US sitcom, Discworld and Lemony Snicket novels, this very forum) I've end up with quite an uneven mix-mash of vocabulary.

I tried to learn French in high school, but felt it has all the complications of English plus the ones from Romance languages combined in a big francophonic nightmare. Why don't you pronounce the final vowels? Porquoi? Malhereux!

Óuh!! (Translation: "D'oh!")

No se te olvide abrir los signos de exclamación "¡¡¡", disculpa ser un nazi de la gramática pero eso siempre me molesta.
 

maxmordon

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All this talk of having a single language bring us together is fine.

...why does it need to be legislated? We don't need some higher authority to come in and tell us what language to speak or how to speak it or where to speak it.

People should be free to talk in whatever way makes them understood to the people they're talking to.

Well, unless we develop a way to empathically bond our ideas and feelings to others or Esperanto magically works for anything but geek creed, I guess we'll continue like we are.
 

missesdash

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This is hilarious. I teach language acquisition to preschool and elementary aged kids. They aren't sitting around conjugating verbs. They usually learn a few phrases here and there, some counting. Early on is about getting an ear for other languages. Younger children, unlike adults, can repeat words in other languages without it being colored by am established "accent." They are ideal candidates for learning another language. I can see objection to other classes, but even that isn't a huge deal.

And since most states have a foreign language requirement in high school, why not start early? The idea that "it make be too difficult" could certainly apply to any subject in school.

In Maryland, most kids get some foreign language exposure early on. Russian, Japanese, whatever. Just something that isn't English. My sister had Russian in third grade and they even had an exchange student. People often underestimate a child's capacity to learn language. There are also different types of language learners, so kids often come home and will refuse to speak, and their parents assume they aren't learning anything.

Anyway I would consider myself almost bilingual if I were more confident in my speaking ability. But I'm thrilled that my kids will grow up in a bilingual household. I wish I'd had the same opportunity.

I almost wish my first language wasn't English because EVERYONE speaks it. No natter where I go, someone notices my accent and will be thrilled to switch to English. Globalism is a crutch in this instance.
 

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I thought that was "carámba".

My Scandinavian forebears have a fine equivalent: Uff da!

caw

Yay and nay. "Ouh" is how the latin american dubbing translated Homer Simpson's "D'oh!"

90% of any movies on theaters here in Venezuela for teenagers or above is in English with subtitles

It must be even tougher to learn english in Spain where they dub everything (horribly).

No se te olvide abrir los signos de exclamación "¡¡¡", disculpa ser un nazi de la gramática pero eso siempre me molesta.

Cállate tú.
 

backslashbaby

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Our immigrants (in my town) from south of the border do not tend to know English already, so they have to pick it up here. They do a remarkable job. We have Spanish churches, etc, here, so one could get lazy with it to a great extent (like my aunt and uncle when they lived in Costa Rica). The kids all seem to speak English. I haven't heard any ruffled feathers about any of it, except from the usual suspects (the Rebel flag types).

I took Spanish since 3rd grade in public school in this area, since back in the 70's. High school had Latin, Spanish, French and German, and foreign language courses were required for graduation.

I minored in undergrad in Spanish, French and German (along with my double major).

Sometimes I think people take a true stereotype and stretch it to the point that it irritates. None of my Irish or British classmates (in my actual program and class) in England spoke more than one language, except for bits and pieces. 2 out of 3 of the Americans did. The Texan was the most fluent, especially if you count Spanglish :D

All of the monolingual Ukers and Irish travelled to Europe more often than the Americans! It is the EU, after all ;)

eta:
...
I almost wish my first language wasn't English because EVERYONE speaks it. No natter where I go, someone notices my accent and will be thrilled to switch to English. Globalism is a crutch in this instance.

France was good about that the last time I was there! I didn't brush up on my French, thinking everyone would speak English, and I spoke mostly in French to everyone there. Maybe they were just being polite, but I enjoyed it immensely. When my dad got too irritating, I stopped translating until he shaped up :ROFL:
 

Literateparakeet

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A word from south of the border: learning english is hard, even more so when your native tongue is spanish. Because of the phonetics, it would be easier for a mexican to learn japanese.

Thanks for your whole post. This part in particular was enlightening to me.

No se te olvide abrir los signos de exclamación "¡¡¡", disculpa ser un nazi de la gramática pero eso siempre me molesta.

¿Asi? >>> ¡LOL!
 

thebloodfiend

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In 40 years, the majority of children in the US will be Hispanic.

I grew up in a primarily Hispanic neighborhood. I live in New Mexico. I passed Spanish 1, 2, and 3 with A's. Two years later, I don't remember how to conjugate a verb and I barely remember how to ask to go to the bathroom or translate a passage of text. This program would've been awesome when I was younger, but sadly, we only had Spanish class every other week in elementary school in all three of the schools I attended. In the k-5 I attended in NM, we never had Spanish class.

Spanish is the second language in the US. If you're not going to bother learning it, what's the harm in immersing your children? People pay hundreds of dollars for classes that your kids are getting for free. I'm not seeing the logic here. Driving to another school will fracture her family?

I guess if the local Target closed down, making her have to shop at Walmart, it would end her marriage and cause her to become suicidal.
 

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In the past, people have come to America from many countries with different languages (German, Italian, French, Russian, Chinese, African, South American etc.) yet those people learned the lingua franca. They made the decision to integrate into the population and become part of the Whole. Become "a part of the team" so to speak... <snip>

So when people hear or see another language given equal footing as English, the common language of this country from the beginning, they feel threatened.

This is a false narrative. From the Cajun French spoken in Louisiana to the Spanish spoken in the Southwest to the Chinese spoken in California to the German spoken in the Midwest, etc. etc., there have always been macro and micro communities in the U.S. whose "official communication" was in a language other than English. It is only through technological advances in communication and mobility over the last century or so that those languages have been gradually put aside in favor of English, gradually over generations, due to economics rather than culture. It's not intentional choice to belong to some fictional ideal of a national character; first, people don't live by ideology like that, and second, that ideology is mythic in the first place.

English has never been the common language of the U.S. It has been the dominant language overall, if you view the country as one giant unit, but that's not the same thing.

Anyway - I would like to see American Latino children learn English, because I think it is in their best interest. I don't know enough about early childhood language acquisition to know if the education system described by the OP is a good idea or not in furtherance of that goal. But I would hate to see the U.S. have English as the official language, for the same reason I'd hate to see us put the Queen on our dollar bills. Eff that.
 
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Teinz

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France was good about that the last time I was there! I didn't brush up on my French, thinking everyone would speak English, and I spoke mostly in French to everyone there. Maybe they were just being polite, but I enjoyed it immensely.

No, they were not being polite, they just don't speak English. Well, most of them don't anyway. Especially the older folks.

I guess it depends on how "outward-looking" a country is. The Netherlands mainly survive by trading with other European nations, so in our schools children learn other languages. English is compulsory in all levels of education. Higher up, one needs to study a second foreign language, usually German or French. So, by the time a student graduates, they have at least six years worth of English under their belt.

Also, being a strange combination of (mostly) Germanic and Roman languages, Dutch employs a lot of sounds that permeate other languages. I can't speak French very well, but I can sound French.

Anyway, learning a second language can only be good for a person, right? Good for the brain, good for the social skills, good for comprehending what foreigners are and how they think.

I also think it's very important for an immigrant to learn the local language. How else could he ever participate in society? I mean, employing an English speaking Italian in a shop, to serve as an interpreter is only a stopgap solution. A highly ineffecient one at that.
 

Archerbird

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No, they were not being polite, they just don't speak English. Well, most of them don't anyway. Especially the older folks.

I guess it depends on how "outward-looking" a country is. The Netherlands mainly survive by trading with other European nations, so in our schools children learn other languages. English is compulsory in all levels of education. Higher up, one needs to study a second foreign language, usually German or French. So, by the time a student graduates, they have at least six years worth of English under their belt.

The French have been fanatic about the French language for a long time.
 

These Mean Streets

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This is a false narrative. From the Cajun French spoken in Louisiana to the Spanish spoken in the Southwest to the Chinese spoken in California to the German spoken in the Midwest, etc. etc., there have always been macro and micro communities in the U.S. whose "official communication" was in a language other than English. It is only through technological advances in communication and mobility over the last century or so that those languages have been gradually put aside in favor of English, gradually over generations, due to economics rather than culture. It's not intentional choice to belong to some fictional ideal of a national character; first, people don't live by ideology like that, and second, that ideology is mythic in the first place.

English has never been the common language of the U.S. It has been the dominant language overall, if you view the country as one giant unit, but that's not the same thing.
English has always been the "official language". All official business in the United States - including contracts, legal proceedings, government proceedings and documents etc has always been conducted in English.

Of course, people are going to speak whatever they want in private and in their own small communities - but nationwide, as a whole, in order for there to be proper communication among disparate communities across the nation and even within small towns, English has always been the way to do it.

And in the past, other immigrants had hostilities to deal with also. Can you imagine if towns all over the country had started posting official signs in German as well as English? Or Italian? Or any language besides what has always been generally accepted as "the common tongue"?

Anyway, as I said, having signs and official documents and phones etc in two languages only leads to a sense of Us and Them. A common sociological phenomena.

And my opinion is: if we're going to have one country - united, whole, happy and productive - then we can't have barriers, like language and separate rules etc., that increase divisiveness.
 

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English has never been the common language of the U.S. It has been the dominant language overall, if you view the country as one giant unit, but that's not the same thing.

You are mistaken. It HAS always been the common langauge. It's just that it has never been the official language. There is no "official" langauge of the USA (no language that the Congress has declared to be the one language), only the dominant language of English.

Proof:

All governmental documents on all levels of government --local, state, federal--are written in English, and only later (sometimes) translated into other languages.

All governmental business is conducted in English. All sessions of Congress, all state assemblies, all local municipal meetings from the town council to the PTA. All seated judges conduct their courtrooms in English, and then the court stenographers all record those proceedings in English.

All candidates for US citizenry must speak English. The citizenship exam is in English, and when they have the ceremony making them Ameican citizens, the ceremony is conducted in Engish, and then they must recite their pledge of allegiance to the USA and to the flag in English.

(And, on other matters specifically related to the interests of this web site, the New York Times Book Review reviews books only in standard conventional English. It is specifically in their guidelines that they will not review books in any other language than conventional English.)

English still is not the "official" language of the USA, and it would literally take an act of Congress to make it so. But it IS most undeniably the dominant language.
 

Alpha Echo

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No problem for me if schools want to create a voluntary bi-lingual learning environment. But forcing it upon kids is problematic. Minds are wired diversely, and what works fine for one kid may not work at all for the next. Some kids need more structure than others, etc. Any certified teachers amongst us could probably do a better job at explaining this point than me, though.

I think I agree with this.

My daughter (step) is half Japanese. My husband and her mother chose her elementary school based on the fact that they offered a Japanese Immersion program. They teach Math and Science in Japanese and Social Studies and Language Arts in English.

I wish I'd hung onto the Spanish I learned in high school. Many of my husband's employees, okay, all of them, are Hispanic. We're friends a few of them and their families. They all speak English...but not well. Or well...but extremely fast and with such a heavy accent that it's very difficult to understand what they're saying. It's difficult to communicate. For me at least. My husband says half the time, he doesn't know what they're saying. But they get enough across to each other to establish a friendship. They raised their children to speak Spanish. Their children didn't learn English until they went to school.

I think Spanish should be required as a language class, not as an immersion program.

Many good points to keeping English as the US' primary language have been made. My initial response to the OP was anger and outrage. I still think that woman is ridiculous, but the points made about unity make sense. I tend to agree with them.

But I do think, because of the percentage of immigrants here - legal or not, Hispanic or French or Japanese - other languages should be required. And not in high school. But in elementary school when children are more sponge-like.

Maybe it should depend on the area. Here in Northern VA, it should be Hispanic. But in California, where there are many, many Japanese immigrants, perhaps it should be Japanese.

In Maryland, most kids get some foreign language exposure early on. Russian, Japanese, whatever. Just something that isn't English.

I wouldn't say most. Not where I grew up in Maryland. Perhaps closer to DC, but not out west.

Just like here in VA. In Northern VA, there are so many different cultures. But further south, there are less.
 

RichardGarfinkle

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English has always been the "official language". All official business in the United States - including contracts, legal proceedings, government proceedings and documents etc has always been conducted in English.

I could be wrong, but from my layman's understanding of contract law, a contract properly entered into in a language other than English is enforceable in US Courts provided all people involved understand the terms.

Someone who knows more please correct if I'm wrong.
 

missesdash

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I wouldn't say most. Not where I grew up in Maryland. Perhaps closer to DC, but not out west.

Just like here in VA. In Northern VA, there are so many different cultures. But further south, there are less.

Really? This was in a pretty rural community. I guess I assumed it was in the state curriculum. Maybe it was county-run.
 

Alpha Echo

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Really? This was in a pretty rural community. I guess I assumed it was in the state curriculum. Maybe it was county-run.

Oooh, no. It certainly wasn't in our curriculum. It wasn't in my cousin's either, and he was in a different county. Not until high school were we required to take a language.

Oh, except us advanced placement students or gifted and talented, whatever they called us. We had to take Latin in 8th grade.

But, though a good language to know, it's not exactly what we're discussing.
 

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I may have missed it, but I can't see any mention in this thread of the language that is most likely to be the worldwide lingua franca in a couple of generations: Chinese.
 

Marya

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Out here in South Africa, there are 11 official languages although English remains the official medium for business. In Angola, the local Portuguese dialect is being overtaken by Mandarin because of the Chinese presence in the cities and ports -- older generations in Katanga province still speak fluent Russian. Some Angolans in Luanda learned to speak Spanish while the Cubans were in the region. And the vernacular languages Lingela, Kikonga and Kimbundu among others are widely spoken and understood.

When there is a more imperative or urgent need for those in the West to learn to speak other languages, they will learn as quickly as the rest of us have learned to do.
 

onuilmar

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I may have missed it, but I can't see any mention in this thread of the language that is most likely to be the worldwide lingua franca in a couple of generations: Chinese.


That would be true if Chinese ever goes to a phonetic alphabet. But right now, I understand that it takes about five years for a native Chinese speaker to learn to read because of the ideograms. That is an enormous barrier to adoption as a universal tongue in today's world. Many simply read their second language and don't actually speak it.

I am sure some one will correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that Mandarin has much of the grammatical simplicity of English, both being blended tongues.

As I understand it, both are place languages and have virtually no conjugation and no declension, the banes of many other tongues. A place language is one where the meaning of the word is determined by the location in the sentence. For example, "John" is subject when first but object when following a verb.