Harbor House Books

jacobnesau · Apr 16, 2005

Scott,

Thanks for weighing in on this one. It's nice to get some info from someone who's had more experience with this publisher.

Maybe I'll catch you sometime on our way down the Harbor House Road.

Karen Isaacson
author of Raisin' Brains: Surviving My Smart Family

victoriastrauss · Apr 18, 2005

Not trying to beat a dead horse or anything...

It seems pretty well established now that Harbor House offers both advance-based and vanity-style contracts. (I have documentation of several of those vanity-style offers--the most recent one made just this past January--so this is not an unfounded allegation, and it is a current practice for this publisher).

I'd caution those of you who've received advance-based offers to think long and hard about what sort of publisher offers contracts that require authors to buy 1,000 copies of their own books at a discount of only 20%. Author costs, as quoted in the January offer, were nearly $20,000 for a hardcover, and around $13,500 for a trade paperback. This is more than four times the actual production cost of the books--far more expensive than even a reliable book manufacturer or short run printer. It is, not to mince words, a really bad deal, even if the books are nicely produced.

There are many, many small presses that don't feel the need to turn authors into customers in order to keep their businesses afloat.

- Victoria

ScottAJohnson · Apr 18, 2005

That's as may be...All I can report on is my own experience about them.

Johanna · Apr 18, 2005

Scott, what was the editing like? I don't know much about this House, but while running Harbor House through trusty old Google, I came upon some excerpts that were full of weird spelling and very bad grammar (there was one where the author kept switching between past and present tense, sometimes mid sentence).

ScottAJohnson · Apr 18, 2005

Johanna said:
Scott, what was the editing like? I don't know much about this House, but while running Harbor House through trusty old Google, I came upon some excerpts that were full of weird spelling and very bad grammar (there was one where the author kept switching between past and present tense, sometimes mid sentence).

Geez, hope that wasn't mine you found!

Their head editor is a woman named Crystal Wiggins. I didn't catch any errors in my book, but that's not saying very much. I admittedly don't have a good eye for editing errors in my own work. I know what I meant, dammit! I thought they did a good job, but I also submitted a few errors I found before press time. Which book was it with bad grammer, if you don't mind saying? Or you can private message me the title. I'll investigate.
Thanks

Kree Atv Khurz · Apr 18, 2005

Redemption of a Publisher!? Praised Be!

A very interesting thread here. Thanks to all of you who weighed in. I hope it ends happily for all. Sorry I don't have anything to add, but maybe I'll querry them if they consider memoir. Being 2 or 3 years out sounds rough, but I guess it's security of a sort.
Cheers, Kree

clara bow · Apr 18, 2005

Just a li'l tidbit of info...not sure if it means anything:

http://www.onlineartacademy.com/portfolio/scott.html
Scott, check out the name of the protagonist...lol, any relation?

clara bow · Apr 18, 2005

overkill, maybe. here are some fyi's

These are some links with references to HH somewhere on the page:

http://jeffbates.home.att.net/wpf/
http://www.augustalounge.com/livepages/230.shtml
http://www.uwec.edu/English/Graduate/gradnews.htm
http://www.grendelguy.com/editor.html
well, there are more links out there, but you get the picture.

HH sure seems to be keeping a low profile with the whole vanity press thing. Not that I doubt the reports here or anything, but it just seems strange that they don't advertise it more. Perhaps they are trying to move away from that? Or am I just being naive & hopeful because my husband's been out of work for two years (not for lack of trying), and I want him to get that chance to really kickstart his writing career. Because, thank goodness, he really can write. I don't want him to do anything else.

Oh, boo hoo. At least I still have a job I like in a crappy economy. Bright side, bright side!

Ugh, I need a good night's sleep.

ScottAJohnson · Apr 18, 2005

clara bow said:
Just a li'l tidbit of info...not sure if it means anything:

http://www.onlineartacademy.com/portfolio/scott.html
Scott, check out the name of the protagonist...lol, any relation?

Too cool...There're at least five Scott Johnson's in my town alone! Wow...Now I'm off fighting aliens!

soloset · Apr 18, 2005

clara bow said:
Or am I just being naive & hopeful because my husband's been out of work for two years (not for lack of trying), and I want him to get that chance to really kickstart his writing career.

I don't know anything about Harbor House, but I do know that scammers prey on the hopeful and the naive and the uninformed. Which isn't to say don't be hopeful! Just don't sign anything until you're sure it's the right thing to do -- there are some sick puppies out there who don't see you as a person. They see you as a dollar sign.

Johanna · Apr 19, 2005

ScottAJohnson said:
Geez, hope that wasn't mine you found!
Their head editor is a woman named Crystal Wiggins. I didn't catch any errors in my book, but that's not saying very much. I admittedly don't have a good eye for editing errors in my own work. I know what I meant, dammit! I thought they did a good job, but I also submitted a few errors I found before press time. Which book was it with bad grammer, if you don't mind saying? Or you can private message me the title. I'll investigate.
Thanks

It wasn't yours.

The excerpt is here (pdf file). Maybe they just put up a rough draft by mistake, but as you can see, that chapter doesn't look ready for publication, with the switches between past and present tense, the spelling errors, thecrun-on sentences and so on. On the other hand, from what I've heard, Wal-Mart is ordering it, so it must have passed some kind of test with them.

ScottAJohnson · Apr 19, 2005

Oh! I know which book that is. Yes that is a preliminary editions (unedited, I believe). And I believe it'll be switched the the edited version once editing is complete, or once it hits the stands. If not, it should be.
Thanks

victoriastrauss · Apr 19, 2005

Johanna said:
It wasn't yours. The excerpt is here (pdf file). Maybe they just put up a rough draft by mistake, but as you can see, that chapter doesn't look ready for publication, with the switches between past and present tense, the spelling errors, thecrun-on sentences and so on. On the other hand, from what I've heard, Wal-Mart is ordering it, so it must have passed some kind of test with them.

The book is about Wal-Mart, so that might explain the order (Wal-Mart is not known for stocking books from smaller publishers, or even books from smaller authors at major publishers).

The book (The Greeter by Mary Ellen Cooper) does seem to have been published--Amazon lists a pub date of April 1, and shows it as available to order. There's no sales rank. On B&N.com, it's listed as unavailable, with a pub date of March 2005.

I read through the excerpt, which appears to be totally unedited. I hope it is a rough draft (though I wonder why the author would post something that reflected so poorly on her writing skills). If it's not a rough draft, it doesn't reflect well on the publisher. At all.

- Victoria

Lauri B · Apr 19, 2005

Johanna said:
It wasn't yours. The excerpt is here (pdf file). Maybe they just put up a rough draft by mistake, but as you can see, that chapter doesn't look ready for publication, with the switches between past and present tense, the spelling errors, thecrun-on sentences and so on. On the other hand, from what I've heard, Wal-Mart is ordering it, so it must have passed some kind of test with them.

Johanna,
Where did you hear Wal-Mart was ordering this book? It would be pretty unusual for them to order from a small publisher.

ScottAJohnson · Apr 19, 2005

Harbor House mentioned it on their website, as did Publisher's Weekly in an article in Harbor House, in which they name the publisher one of the top 15 small presses.
Incidentally, I don't know if I'm correct or not, but it seems to me that I remember another sale to WalMart from them, a biography of Al Paccino. Don't quote me on that one though...

SGMwriter · May 19, 2005

Harbor House

Say, anyone published with Harbor House in Georgia? I had an ms with them (which they requested to read) for about 8 months and finally received an answer on it in Feb. Guess what? They didn't want to publish it--it wasn't good enough for their list. Fine. I've been rejected before. HOWEVER, if I PRE-PURCHASED 1,000 copies of my book at a 20% discount ($24.95 cover price hardcover w/discount $19,960 or $16.95 cover price paperback w/discount $13,560) l could sell the books to friends, collegues, family, libraries and keep all the money I made from those sales, AND on the remainder of the print run that HH would sell to the national market I would receive 30% royalties. They didn't specify how many additional copies they would print beyond the 1,000. And of course they didn't offer advise on where I was to store 1,000 copies of the book. I don't mind being rejected, but I hate being insulted. I did something I've never done before, I wrote back to a publisher who's rejected my work. If you want to know what I wrote, in case you find yourself in the same situation with them or someone else, contact me. Needless to say, I didn't burn this bridge, I blew it up. Beware. HH DOES offer conventional contracts, but it does NOT list itself as a self-publishing or vanity press.

Aconite · May 19, 2005

SGMwriter, do you know about resources like Preditors and Editors http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors, Writer Beware http://www.writerbeware.com, and the AW's Index to Agents, Publishers, and Others http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10305 ? You can research publishers and agents there. For example, HH's P&E listing says: Harbor House: Poor contract. Not recommended.

You can help these places make accurate information available, too. Write to them and tell them what you posted here.

SGMwriter · May 19, 2005

Yes, I knew...

...about p & e and the other places. I submitted to HH because I had a friend who was published through them, and the publisher himself asked me for my ms. It's a shame that HH has to resort to trying to squeeze money out of authors instead of publishing good books. I have a friend who published with them...the book is very professionally done. My friend actually received an advance for the book and did some publisher-arranged publicity things, including a book signing at a "coming out" in Atlanta. The book is not carried in any stores up here (Long Island) but I ordered through Borders and got it in 3 days.

SGMwriter · May 19, 2005

Yes, saw those...

...and have heard from another author friend of mine who was at a bookfair in Atlanta that HH had pedalled some of its other books and they weren't so well edited. But you are right, any publisher who makes an author buy his or her book is a vanity publisher regardless of whether or not it offers standard contracts.

ScottAJohnson · May 20, 2005

I've been working with Harbor House for two years now. They published my first novel, they have my second and third books going out this year. They have NEVER asked me to purchase books as a requirement of publication. I have bought books from them to sell at conventions, but it was never a requirement. In addition, my books have been available at brick and mortor bookstores all accross the US. My conclusion?
They are not a vanity press. They've rejected at least one manuscript from me, which, now that I look back at it, was deserved. I don't know about your own experiences, but I do know about the experiences of myself and the other writers listed on their website. We've never been treated like that. Never. Take it for what it's worth, but that's my experience with them.

maestrowork · May 20, 2005

It's interesting that they would offer both types of contracts, and arguably running both "tradtional" and "vanity press" publishing... interesting.

Now, to the person who was offered the "buy 1000 at 20% discount" deal, run away. You'll be better off using something like Lulu if you're going to print your own books and sell them yourself. Better yet, send the book out again. There are other publishers out there.

James D. Macdonald · Nov 22, 2005

The Missing Posts

clara bow said:

If anyone still cares, despite having received interest in publishing one of his manuscripts, my husband has not heard a word from Harbor House in over six months. We are assuming they lost interest, or the contract, or something.

Just thought I'd let y'all know.

victoriastrauss said:

Clara, information I've received recently suggests that Harbor House is having staff and distribution problems, and the resulting upheavals have disrupted its schedule.

- Victoria

clara bow said:

Well, now, there ya go. I had a feeling it had to be something like that. Thanks for the info!

CaoPaux · Feb 14, 2007

FYI - This publisher has received "two thumbs down" from Writer Beware:

http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/02/happy-valentines-day-from-writer-beware.html

DanielKoehler · May 10, 2007

How did your husband's 2005 book contract with Harbor House turn out, Clara?

They requested my MS in March 2007 and I haven't heard yea or nay yet. I'm as of yet unpublished, so I am still hopeful; they have a pretty good sized catalog for a ten-year old firm.

Best, Daniel

calendula-witch · Feb 1, 2008

Is there any update on this thread? They've requested my manuscript this week. Thanks!

Harbor House Books

jacobnesau

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess

ScottAJohnson

Johanna

ScottAJohnson

Kree Atv Khurz

clara bow

Li'l Rug Bug

clara bow

Li'l Rug Bug

ScottAJohnson

soloset

'bye

Johanna

ScottAJohnson

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess

Lauri B

I Heart Mac

ScottAJohnson

SGMwriter

Aconite

SGMwriter

SGMwriter

ScottAJohnson

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

CaoPaux

Mostly Harmless

DanielKoehler

reverse backward masker

calendula-witch