Five year old shoots little sister...with his own gun

Well technically, fratricide is a killing a brother, so it would have been sororicide.

But I still disagree that a 5 year old can "commit" sororicide or fratricide or anything else. It was an accident that resulted in death. It's tragic enough as it is. I doesn't require labeling the "culprit."

Cyia said:

If a residue swab was necessary, then it should be the adults being swabbed, not the kidlet. If there was a chance that someone else shot the girl, that's how you'd know the possible party.

The little boy needs copious amounts of counselling as fast as they can get him an advocate to speak to. Someone's going to have to help him sort this out, and he's going to need a place to do it that's outside the confines of the home where his sister died in clear view.

But I doubt you'd find any adult in that home who didn't handle the rifle after it was fired - surely someone would have picked it up and moved it / thrown it - so I'm not sure what good a swab would do, anyway.

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A GSR shouldn't pick up a false positive from someone picking up or moving a weapon. Firing creates a pretty clear (testing-wise) residue pattern in amounts and certainly places you wouldn't get it from handling the weapon afterwards, like the back of the hand, which is generally the first place testers go. The palm and palmside of the fingers are holding the weapon and don't get the blowback from anything much, as much as the back of the hand does.

But I still disagree that a 5 year old can "commit" sororicide or fratricide or anything else. It was an accident that resulted in death. It's tragic enough as it is. I doesn't require labeling the "culprit."

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I have no idea what happened in this case. Could have been a kid playing who had no idea what would or might happen, who thought the weapon was unloaded or didn't know the difference. Could have been a kid who shot the gun on purpose at his sister without a real understanding of what that would actually do. Could have been intentional and with understanding. It's likely it's the former, but I don't think his age makes anything else impossible.

nighttimer said:

so I'm not even going to entertain these ludicrous "bad seed" fantasies and down home conspiracies in what appears to be a senseless, but completely avoidable tragedy at a rural Kentucky trailer home.

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You are the one who brought up the concept of, "bad seed." You repetetively keep doing that where you make up stuff and attribute it to other people. Every once in a while I look at your posts and then get reminded why I put you on ignore the first time and why I will again. Please add me to your ignore list as well.

Chrissy said:

Well technically, fratricide is a killing a brother, so it would have been sororicide.

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Semantics and sources. Wikipedia lists "sororicide." Merriam-Webster does not. They go with the better-known "fratricide."

: one that murders or kills his or her own brother or sister or an individual (as a countryman) having a relationship like that of a brother or sister

Either way, the little girl is still dead. That's not in dispute.

Chrissy said:

But I still disagree that a 5 year old can "commit" sororicide or fratricide or anything else. It was an accident that resulted in death. It's tragic enough as it is. I doesn't require labeling the "culprit."

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Accidents can be through omission or commission. I believe in this case it was the latter. You can believe whatever you want, Chrissy. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.

Least of all this guy.

GeorgeK said:

You are the one who brought up the concept of, "bad seed." You repetetively keep doing that where you make up stuff and attribute it to other people. Every once in a while I look at your posts and then get reminded why I put you on ignore the first time and why I will again. Please add me to your ignore list as well.

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Nah. Your "WTF?" posting style is good for a cheap laugh if nothing else. I don't need to put you on any lists to ignore your posts.

And since you mentioned it, why did you take me off of your "ignore" list in the first place? If I irked you before, why would you think I wouldn't irk you again?

Just how nutty is the gun nuts wing of the NRA?

Pretty damn nuts.

Gun owners should store a gun in their kids’ room, according to a ‘Home Defense Concepts’ seminar offered at the National Rifle Association’s Annual Meeting, comments that came just days after the fatal shooting of a two-year-old at the hands of her five-year-old brother.

The course was taught by Rob Pincus, who owns the popular firearm instruction company I.C.E. Training. Pincus argued that, in the event of a home invasion, parents would instinctively run to their children’s room anyway, they might as well have a gun stored there to kill two birds with one stone:

PINCUS: How about putting a quick-access safe in your kids’ room? [...] Good idea or bad idea? We have an emotional pushback to that. Here’s my position on this. If you’re worried that your kid is going to try to break into the safe that is in their bedroom with a gun in it, you have bigger problems than home defense.



[Laughter] If you think that the kid who’s going to try to break into the safe because it’s in their room isn’t sneaking into your room to try to break into stuff, you’re naive and you have bigger problems than this. So let’s settle that issue and think about it. In the middle of the night, if I’m in the bathroom or getting a glass of water or in the bedroom or watching TV in the living room, if that alarm goes off and the glass breaks and the dog starts barking, what’s the instinct that most people are going to have, in regards to, “am I going to run across the house to get the gun, or am I going to run over here to help the screaming kid?” And if I’m going to go to the kid anyway, and I have an extra gun and an extra safe, why not put it in their closet?
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nighttimer said:

"store gun in kid's room"

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... no need for that anyway. If somebody wants to gun-up 24/7 they just have to carry one about all the time like Clint did. Bathing in a barrel, a bandit barged in. Drew a gun, unaware that Clint had one. Bang, bang.

I can actually see the rationale behind storing the safe in the kid's room—and the obvious pushback on the idea. I'm not quite convinced that a kid who will break into a safe in their own room won't break into a safe somewhere else in the house. Either the safe is secure or it isn't, does the room it's in really matter?

And I don't know how easy it is for a young child to break into a gun safe anyway. But I suppose if it's left unlocked in your own rooms they're somewhat less likely to happen upon it. There's also the issue of someone breaking in to steal your gun, you'd much rather they break into your room or another room than the nursery.

missesdash said:

rationale

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... there is at that.
And just storing it there would make one extra careful that they'd locked the safe. Whereas if it was elsewhere one might skip doing that on occasion feeling it was unnecessary. Just speculating. And honestly. If you own a gun, which I don't, I really would believe it best to have it on you all the time. B/c it is not like you are going to always have time to retrieve it. It may well be a two second deal or spur of the moment event where you have to take action instantaneously. But what do I know. Only gun I ever owned was a bb gun. And the danged thing wasn't even powerful enough to bust beer bottles from ten paces away!

missesdash said:

And I don't know how easy it is for a young child to break into a gun safe anyway.

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I'm assuming that most of you are thinking of something along the lines of a rifle safe that's around 5 feet tall and about 3 feet deep, with a keypad or a wheel lock on the front. If you only have a handgun, or guns, on the premises, then you don't usually use something that massive.

They're too heavy for use in modular housing, like a trailer (which is one reason people forgo them). The floors will buckle.

If you've only got one gun to store, then a handgun case can slide into a deep drawer or under a bed easily and it usually looks like a secure briefcase or a small firesafe. The gun is stored with the ammo, but it's not usually loaded, and you've got a triggerlock to make sure that no one can shoot it easily, anyway. (Not the same thing as a "safety.") Picture the way movies show people who travel with a gun, and the inside of the "safe" suitcases that have to be checked with the foam cutouts for each piece of the weapon. Not all lock-ups have the cutouts, but a lot do.