Not Being Allowed to Read

misslissy · Jul 25, 2008

Yeah well I'm not even talking about more mature books. I'm just talking about maybe moving from Goodnight Moon to Henry and Mud. Henry and Mud is hardly more mature - just more challenging. When they start getting to the 4th on up level I'd say that where that matters more, but in the younger years, all the books are pretty tame.

gypsyscarlett · Jul 25, 2008

My elementary school had that policy, too.
Grades 1-3 THIS SIDE OF THE LIBRARY
Grade 4-6 OTHER SIDE OF THE LIBRARY WITH BETTER BOOKS

Librarian caught eight year-old little me trying to take out a book from the other side. I flipped it open, read it, explained to her what everything meant.

I got the friggin book. :snoopy:

I hate when adults try to keep kids down.

blueobsidian · Jul 25, 2008

Hillary said:
Is the ONLY place kids are getting books these days in school libraries? What the hell? The vast majority of my reading materials (outside school curriculum obviously) came from bookstores that I visited with my parents, and public libraries I visited with my parents.

Well first, let me just say that not all of us are so lucky to be able to afford extra books and many public libraries have limited hours. I think it is pretty ridiculous to expect that everyone has the funds or time to access those resources.

We always had a scheduled library period each week in elementary school, and we were expected to check out two books a week. Now, with two books plus books from the curriculum, how many more do you expect a child to read every week? Even though I was a complete bookworm and read three to four chapter books a week on top of my other schoolwork, my parents expected me to GO OUTSIDE and play with the other neighborhood children and engage in other activities. I had soccer practice and spent time with my friends, learning about socializing.

Not every minute of every day should be spent on a single activity, even one as worthwhile as reading. Children need to learn to be physically active and develop their social skills.

Yeah well I'm not even talking about more mature books. I'm just talking about maybe moving from Goodnight Moon to Henry and Mud. Henry and Mud is hardly more mature - just more challenging. When they start getting to the 4th on up level I'd say that where that matters more, but in the younger years, all the books are pretty tame.

I agree. My school library was pretty small, and I don't believe they had anything that could be interpreted as "mature" or offensive. It was just different degrees of difficulty.

Albedo · Jul 25, 2008

I consider myself lucky. My primary school librarian was a superwoman who could not only remember the face and name of every child in the school (about 700), she knew exactly what they were reading, what they were interested in and where their skill level was, and she made recommendations to students and gave advice to parents on how best to encourage their kids' reading. And she still remembered my name more than ten years after I left the school. The idea that anyone would have been banned from reading one book or another in that library is laughable.

High school was a little different. I remember when I started there was a "mature" section, only for students 14 and up, where all the books on themes like suicide and murder were kept. I don't think that rule was ever enforced.

misslissy · Jul 25, 2008

The only thing my high school library restricted was the books on specific drugs - they were in reference. You could check them out whenever you wanted, they just couldn't leave the library. I think that had more to do with the fact that health class used them for reports every year. (They're freshman so they had their hands held).

Jersey Chick · Jul 25, 2008

JimmyB27 said:
Never had this problem, but it does kind of remind me of when I first started school. My first teacher told my mum off because I could already read. Apparently it was her job to teach me, not my mum's.

I had that same problem - I was reading before I started school and my kindergarten teacher hated that.

I don't know about our public library - I'm the one who takes out the books (and racks up mucho fines almost every time - I'm terrible about getting books back on time. Terrible.) - so they've never given me a hard time about it.

My feeling is that as long as I know what my 7 year old's reading, it's no one else's concern. For the most part, there's very little I wouldn't let her read - unless I think it'll give her nightmares (she has a very active imagination) or it's a little too grownup for her - she can read pretty much anything she wants. I'm just glad she loves to read...

icerose · Jul 25, 2008

My daughter's school reading program actually encourages them to read as high of a level as they can and grade them on expression when they read out loud as well as proper pauses and pacing. Reading is huge around here. They even pulled in highschool students in a reading program to help tutor the 1st graders. We also have reading sheets where if they read so many minutes a night they get entered into a school drawing. Same goes for math.

Bartholomew · Jul 26, 2008

Thank goodness for homeschooling. I read whatever I damn well fancied growing up.

Hillary · Jul 26, 2008

blueobsidian said:
Well first, let me just say that not all of us are so lucky to be able to afford extra books and many public libraries have limited hours. I think it is pretty ridiculous to expect that everyone has the funds or time to access those resources.

Honestly, I find that sad. Because, well, two hours with your kids doing an educational activity twice a month? And about two bucks in late fees to the library? Seriously? That's TOO much for me to expect from a parent? I could cry. Is that really the state of parenthood these days?

Even if it is the sate of parenthood, I won't lower my standards of what childcare should be to meet that. So I DO expect that kind of thing from parents. I think it's pretty ridiculous for parents to act like taking a kid to get books is THAT much of a chore. It's not Disney World, it's the library.

If I were the kind of parent who found myself totally unable to find the time to take my kids somewhere - ANYWHERE - that has books once or twice a month, I'd have to seriously reevaluate my child rearing skills. Libraries, yard sales, church thrift shops, the neighbor's house - all cheap or free and easily scheduled weekly, bi-weekly, or just once a month! I simply refuse to see this kind of dedication to children as a massive drain on time and energy and money that parents shouldn't be "expected" to make.

And now I'm actually curious about other people's local libraries. I live in a relatively small town with only about 6,000 year-round residents (and two traffic lights!), and the library is open from 10:00am to 5:00pm four times a week (including Saturday) and 1:00pm to 9:00pm twice a week, specifically to accommodate the schedules of students and working folk who need this public resource. I imagined (though I could be totally wrong) if my small town has this, many public libraries have at least one day a week like this. What's the case for others?

blueobsidian said:
Now, with two books plus books from the curriculum, how many more do you expect a child to read every week? Even though I was a complete bookworm and read three to four chapter books a week on top of my other schoolwork, my parents expected me to GO OUTSIDE and play with the other neighborhood children and engage in other activities. I had soccer practice and spent time with my friends, learning about socializing.

Not every minute of every day should be spent on a single activity, even one as worthwhile as reading. Children need to learn to be physically active and develop their social skills.

Good Lord, when did I say kids should JUST read? I think having three or four books (like you said you did) a week sounds about right. For me. Personally, I often wanted access to more, because there was no guarantee I'd like every single book I checked out of the library. And I don't think school libraries can accommodate that volume. I read when I couldn't be outside. When I was eight, I wasn't allowed to be playing outdoors after dark. (Maybe that's odd, I don't know. That's just how I was brought up.) I played tennis and soccer, took piano and gymnastics, and spent a good deal of time with a local rec group (my parents couldn't afford the fancy summer and after-school programs, but it worked for me for socializing outside school). And I still had no problem going through several books a week just reading before I went to bed bed, on rainy days, on the bus or in the car, etc.

And if I had a kid who, for whatever reason, was only able to read one book a week? That's totally fine, but I'd be even MORE vigilant in making sure it was a quality book, and not forced upon them at school merely because of age-appropriateness. So, excellent point - many kids are either super busy or just don't care about reading so they read far fewer books a week than you or I did. Parents ought to be paying even more attention to the quality.

Myasandar · Jul 26, 2008

Jeez, I think only ever read one book a week when I was a kid, depending on the size. I liked to savour them I suppose.

We didn't have much of a restriction in my school or local library... apart from there was a 14-19 year books that I wasn't allowed to take out when I was 13. So I went to the bookshop and bought it with my book money. It really peed me off to be honest - why wasn't I allowed to read it? It was Roots, which was about slavery and I suppose it did contain some er... graphic material I suppose in a way. It was hardly sex or gun crime though and we were actually being taught about slavery in History at the time so I'd have thought it would have been appropriate.

They had these dumb 14-19 book in the local library although I think they only had it there as more of a 'recommendation' then an actual thing to stop children from reading.

Schools that prevent kids from reading certain books are just enforcing ignorance and am I glad we didn't have many of those dumb 14-19 books in my school library. If someone wants to try something harder, people should allow them.

misslissy · Jul 26, 2008

Hillary said:
Honestly, I find that sad. Because, well, two hours with your kids doing an educational activity twice a month? And about two bucks in late fees to the library? Seriously? That's TOO much for me to expect from a parent? I could cry. Is that really the state of parenthood these days?

I was just going to say - I think it is. It's much, much easier for a lot of parents to plunk their child in front of the the tv then to get them a book; especially if they're too young to be reading entirely on their own, which requires help from the parents. Trust me, it's much easier to turn on barney then it is to go to the library.

icerose · Jul 26, 2008

Hillary said:
And now I'm actually curious about other people's local libraries. I live in a relatively small town with only about 6,000 year-round residents (and two traffic lights!), and the library is open from 10:00am to 5:00pm four times a week (including Saturday) and 1:00pm to 9:00pm twice a week, specifically to accommodate the schedules of students and working folk who need this public resource. I imagined (though I could be totally wrong) if my small town has this, many public libraries have at least one day a week like this. What's the case for others?

We don't have any traffic lights lol. We have a very small public library whose only source of books is by donation. The hours are 10am-5pm weekdays, doesn't open on Saturday. It's sad, really. The elementary school library has a larger selection than the public library.

Jersey Chick · Jul 26, 2008

misslissy said:
I was just going to say - I think it is. It's much, much easier for a lot of parents to plunk their child in front of the the tv then to get them a book; especially if they're too young to be reading entirely on their own, which requires help from the parents. Trust me, it's much easier to turn on barney then it is to go to the library.

That's sad - but I think it's pretty accurate as well. But, on the other hand, my son (who's almost 3) will rarely sit still for a story. I used to read to my daughter at bedtime every night (Good Night, Moon 3 times each frickin' night), but he isn't a sit-still-and-listen type of kid. So sometimes, it just ain't happening, no matter how much you want it to.

Hillary · Jul 26, 2008

misslissy said:
I was just going to say - I think it is. It's much, much easier for a lot of parents to plunk their child in front of the the tv then to get them a book; especially if they're too young to be reading entirely on their own, which requires help from the parents. Trust me, it's much easier to turn on barney then it is to go to the library.

I know... It's so incredibly sad. Even among those parents that DO have all kinds of money (and time - no second jobs here, weekends are totally free and they get tons of vacation and holiday time.) I was a nanny for years and years, and it always depressed me to see these parents who had a combined income of close to $200,000 a year basically be unwilling to spend quality time with their kids. That money went to DVDs, expanded cable, an XBox and... Well... ME. A nanny. Not books or family trips. On weekends, they would try to send the little ones to grandma's so they could go out on the boat with a cooler full of beer instead of do anything with their little ones.

I even nannied for one family who didn't notice their six-year-old had trouble hearing. I brought it up, several times, and was brushed off, saying I had only been working there a week, and Katie was just being a brat to me becasue I was the new nanny. A month later, the school nurse called to say she'd failed the hearing test - twice.

Her reading and writing skills were suffering greatly at a crucial time in her fundamentals education, because she couldn't hear her teacher and her parents weren't paying any kind of attention to her reading and writing skills. In a year of living there, I must have read a hundred books with the kids. The parents? Not a one.

How do you ignore these faces? Come ON!

Sad.

misslissy · Jul 26, 2008

I don't know how they ignore the faces. I find it encouraging the parents who do read to their children, though they are far and few between. I know that I babysat for a family last year who had reading as a part of their bedtime routine and we would always read just one more story.

I love reading to little kids. Their faces can just come alive.

Jersey Chick · Jul 26, 2008

When I got tired of reading Goodnight, Moon, I'd make up my own stories about the bunny - they cracked my daughter up, and I didn't go nuts

Hillary · Jul 26, 2008

misslissy said:
I don't know how they ignore the faces. I find it encouraging the parents who do read to their children, though they are far and few between. I know that I babysat for a family last year who had reading as a part of their bedtime routine and we would always read just one more story.

I love reading to little kids. Their faces can just come alive.

I know! It has to be my favorite thing when a kid comes out of his or her room clutching books and asking to have me read. The answer, unless I'm dead or blind, will be yes!

When I was in 4th and 6th grade, my younger brother and I were homeschooled, and we were allowed to pick and choose days we called "Reading Days" and the entire portion of the day normally dedicated to all the educational disciplines were dedicated instead to just reading. We had books on tape, too, so we could be read to in the car, even, instead of listening to terrible pop radio stations. I LOVE books on tape!

Reading was such a big part of my life, it actually factored into my privileges... When I wanted to wear makeup, even though I was a little young? Fine, said Mom, but I had to read The Beauty Myth first. When I was older, and brought up the idea of getting a brand? I had to read Burn Unit before it could even be discussed. (Haven't ever gotten that brand, btw!)

(We've totally derailed this thread. Kids and reading does that to me...)

Hillary · Jul 26, 2008

Jersey Chick said:
When I got tired of reading Goodnight, Moon, I'd make up my own stories about the bunny - they cracked my daughter up, and I didn't go nuts

The stories we made up to go with The Grey Lady and the Strawberry Snatcher made me nearly wet my pants laughing.

misslissy · Jul 26, 2008

My library just got some new technology and it's awesome. They're called playaways and pretty much what it is is a self-contained mp3 player that has a whole book on it. Which is neat for two reasons - one because it remembers where you stopped and two because then you don't have to worry about changing CDs or Cassettes or anything.

I still wish they didn't restrict access to books - especially at younger level when they might not always have the means to work around it. Older kids usually can, but when the parents don't care, then they can't really do anything cause they're like 7. (See? Back on topic lol).

And pssst, what's a brand? (I've obviously never wanted one).

rhymegirl · Jul 26, 2008

misslissy said:
Now two questions and one statement: First question, why not let the kids read books above their grade level if they can handle it? It's not like he wants to start reading 6th grade books, he just wants to read the third grade books.

Second question, does this seem discouraging to anyone else? Because it does to me.

And for my statement, for the record, I think this is dumb.

Yes, it is discouraging. Definitely not fair.

When my oldest son was in kindergarten, he was reading books beyond that level. And he wanted me to read books above that level to him. Eventually, they had him spend half the time in the first grade room and the other half with the kindergarten class. Intellectually, he was always ahead of his classmates.

He knew all of the letters in the alphabet when he was 2.

Nobody should be denied reading whatever they want to read, as far as I'm concerned.

Hillary · Jul 26, 2008

misslissy said:
I still wish they didn't restrict access to books - especially at younger level when they might not always have the means to work around it. Older kids usually can, but when the parents don't care, then they can't really do anything cause they're like 7. (See? Back on topic lol).

Heh... well, ON topic (lookit me!) I figure if the librarians in schools are on top of things enough to police the age-appropriateness of books, they could totally be on top of policing the content - there are plenty of more challenging books without questionable content kids could read. Saying parents might get mad, etc. is a lame excuse as far as I'm concerned. (Btw, I know you didn't say that, but others brought it up as a concern.) It's completely possible to recommend "older" books without ruining kids for life.

misslissy said:
And pssst, what's a band? (I've obviously never wanted one).

Oh, a bRand! You know how people get tattoos? It's like a tattoo made of a scar. (Okay, a fancy scar, basically.) Branding is done with burns, but can be done with just cutting (then known as "scarification"). Here is a scar of leaves going up a girl's side (that one was scarification, not branding, but same general idea - one form of inkless body modification.)

misslissy · Jul 26, 2008

Ouch! That looks really painful.

And on a side note - we have a parent in the next school district over the keeps trying to get books thrown out for content, language, etc. Well, he never succeeds. Sometimes the books have to then get signed permission to be taken out, but the books have never been removed from the library.

Izunya · Jul 26, 2008

Quote:Honestly, I find that sad. Because, well, two hours with your kids doing an educational activity twice a month? And about two bucks in late fees to the library? Seriously? That's TOO much for me to expect from a parent? I could cry. Is that really the state of parenthood these days?

I suspect part of it depends on how the parent was raised. I mean, we're all readers (or we wouldn't want to write) so our reaction is, "How do you survive childhood without books?!" But we might be talking about someone who only read for school, when they had to, and their parents didn't see anything odd about that, and neither did their grandparents. They don't know half the books-on-a-budget tricks that we do, and what's more, it hasn't occurred to them to go looking.

I also suspect that if you work two jobs to make ends meet and still have to clean the house, your checklist for healthy parenting becomes (1) Is he killing his sister, and (2) Is anything on fire? If you can answer "no" to both those questions, you're doing okay. Fatigue does bad things to peoples' standards.

As for those parents who aren't laboring under these difficulties and still don't teach their kids to read, or read aloud to them . . . well, maybe . . . actually, no. I got nothin'.

Izunya

Mandy-Jane · Jul 26, 2008

I'm reading all these posts smiling at how we're all horrified that some parents don't read to their kids. Obviously we've all grown up with books and exposure to literature from an early age. It is hard to believe that some parents don't understand the importance and the value of encouraging their kids to have an interest in books.

We're all different, I guess.

roseangel · Jul 27, 2008

I had that problem, in 2nd grade they wouldn't let me have the older books, though my reading level was very high, I had already read the little woman when i was 4! They also refused to listen to my mom.
I was home schooled after that.

Not Being Allowed to Read

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