NRA Response To Newtown School Shooting

Foley said:

Also sad: sales of automatic weapons have increased since Newtown.

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First, I think you mean "semi-automatic" weapons, since automatic weapons are exceedingly difficult to obtain, require special background checks, registration and licensing, and are also exceedingly expensive because there are relatively few of them in existence.

Second, sales of all sorts of guns and ammo, including semi-automatic handguns, always increase considerably when the drumbeats of the gun-grabbers start up again. I know of at least two shops that are currently sold out of anything worth buying, but both of Obama's wins also increased sales because he has a reputation as a potential gun-grabber.

Sales haven't gone up because there are lots of copycats planning their own missions, or because people are arming their kids; they've gone up because some people are hard at work attempting to strip others of their right to ownership.

Oh, and LaPierre is an idiot, lest someone think I'm taking his side.

acockey said:

@Alpha Echo How can you even defend that kind of logic... Perhaps a Swat Team at every school? Teachers with guns?

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He claims there are already guns on campus, but no one knows about it. He says it would create jobs for our vets. He also thinks we should have metal detectors at every entrance.

I'd be willing to entertain that.

But I am rather shocked that he's all for this.

I am not for a ban on guns. Not even the semi-automatics.

But I am NOT for this. At all.

I asked my co-worker what's next? What about daycares? Chuck E' Cheeses'?

He said the private establishments could decide themselves whether or not they wanted to protect their clientele.

I said we are not a military state, and that's what he's proposing.

He said it doesn't have to be a slippery slope.

Don, yes, I edited my post to add the semi before you replied.

I'm aware of the logic that's being used to explain the rise in sales, and that worries me even more - as does the likelihood that the NRA's attempts to influence the political response to Newtown will succeed. *sigh*

Don said:

First, I think you mean "semi-automatic" weapons, since automatic weapons are exceedingly difficult to obtain, require special background checks, registration and licensing, and are also exceedingly expensive because there are relatively few of them in existence.

Second, sales of all sorts of guns and ammo, including semi-automatic handguns, always increase considerably when the drumbeats of the gun-grabbers start up again. I know of at least two shops that are currently sold out of anything worth buying, but both of Obama's wins also increased sales because he has a reputation as a potential gun-grabber.

Sales haven't gone up because there are lots of copycats planning their own missions, or because people are arming their kids; they've gone up because some people are hard at work attempting to strip others of their right to ownership.

Oh, and LaPierre is an idiot, lest someone think I'm taking his side.

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I agree with you. I bet gun sales went up right after Obama was re-elected.

Don said:

sales of all sorts of guns and ammo, including semi-automatic handguns, always increase considerably when the drumbeats of the gun-grabbers start up again.

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Plus it's the holidays, and an AR-15 makes an excellent gift-item. A bit tough to wrap, maybe...

quickWit said:

Plus it's the holidays, and an AR-15 makes an excellent gift-item. A bit tough to wrap, maybe...

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... not so tough, you just put in a school bag and wrap that.

dolores haze said:

My jaw dropped.

I was so hoping that the NRA would...I don't know...be reasonable? Stupid of me.

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I'm just waiting for them to bust out the argument: "If all those kids had guns, you think that guy woulda been successful?"

I suspect many parents will be unhappy at the idea of (more) guns in their schools, not to mention that outrage that will follow when (not if) a child gets shot by friendly fire. Nor does this proposal address mass shootings elsewhere, but we all know there's not going to be one solution to solve everything. While I think the idea of armed LEOs (not teachers or principals) is an idea worth exploring, I am unsurprised but disappointed gun control was not put on the table.

As for the idea of a database of mentally ill people, that is simply chilling. It's very well to talk about strengthening mental health resources, and we need that for more reasons than one. But I'd like to see what people are proposing practically. Courtesy of the NIMH (which I posted elsewhere), I have some numbers. Roughly 5% of adults in the US suffer from severe mental illness. ~26% have some mental disorder in a 12-month period, with ~22% being severe. Roughly 46% have a mental disorder sometime during their lifetimes.

I don't think it's easy to figure out who out of the 46, 22-26, or 5% need to be monitored, and how they should be monitored, much less put in a database.

There was apparently a shooting incident in PA this morning while the press conference was going on. Being that this incident took place over "a wide area of central Pennsylvania," should the response then be to ensure an armed "good guy" defending every wide swathe in the country? NRA will be calling out the posse next.

Should we also assume that the NRA are also in favor of armed guards for every Sikh temple?

vsrenard said:

As for the idea of a database of mentally ill people, that is simply chilling. It's very well to talk about strengthening mental health resources, and we need that for more reasons than one. But I'd like to see what people are proposing practically. Courtesy of the NIMH (which I posted elsewhere), I have some numbers. Roughly 5% of adults in the US suffer from severe mental illness. ~26% have some mental disorder in a 12-month period, with ~22% being severe. Roughly 46% have a mental disorder sometime during their lifetimes.

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Added to that, the kind of personality disorder that can lead to a mass-shooting event is difficult to diagnose.
How many of the perpetrators of previous events had a diagnosis of mental health issues before the event?

I loathe the NRA.

I do agree with the idea that our care of the mentally ill is part of our problem. That does not mean that I agree with this foul group, btw, because the discussion is entirely different. No databases of the mentally ill, no. *head desk*

I do think schools should be allowed to have well-trained, armed security. We have it for our money drop-offs and transport, and for banks. You see some scary armed officers (soldiers?) on Austrian trains and train stations, btw. I understand the idea of a scary, militarized society, but I try to remember what all I already see in various societies. These are our little children. They are the most precious thing in society.

We have separate threads for each of those, so it gets hard to keep up with the discussion!

Foley said:

Ridiculous! How can an armed security guard defend a school? You'd need at least three or four on rolling patrols, but even then a determined attack would find a way through. No. The only solution is for the govt. to arm all school children.

(Wasn't it the Hasbro toy co. who had a contract with the US military to trial designs in the children's toy market?)

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What is this about Hasbro? Link?

backslashbaby said:

What is this about Hasbro? Link?

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The US military definitely worked with a toy manufacturer to trial gun design on children, I read about it during a psyche course and I'm trying to find the book - if I still have it. I hope I got the name of the company right, apologies if not.

backslashbaby said:

We have separate threads for each of those, so it gets hard to keep up with the discussion!

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Yeah, I started to do a merge, but it becomes a mangled mess with no conversational thread.

dolores haze said:

There was apparently a shooting incident in PA this morning while the press conference was going on. Being that this incident took place over "a wide area of central Pennsylvania," should the response then be to ensure an armed "good guy" defending every wide swathe in the country? NRA will be calling out the posse next.

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I read that the news of the shooting interrupted the NRA press conference on some stations. How fitting.

@Alpha Echo that's like saying well...there doesn't have to be taxes...Promptly turn to him and say this ...'Murica F Yea!

Let me see if I have this straight: LaPierre wants a national registry for "mentally ill" people, but not a national registry for guns. Did I miss something?

caw

blacbird said:

Let me see if I have this straight: LaPierre wants a national registry for "mentally ill" people, but not a national registry for guns. Did I miss something?

caw

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Sadly, I don't think you did.

The Constitution is not a Chinese menu! Somebody needs to tell him that.

Foley said:

The US military definitely worked with a toy manufacturer to trial gun design on children, I read about it during a psyche course and I'm trying to find the book - if I still have it. I hope I got the name of the company right, apologies if not.

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backslashbaby, I can't find a source for this with the time I have right now, but I'm pretty sure the military were involved in toy gun design in the 60's and 70's (even in pc games today - drone operators get an early start?) - in the interests of fairness though (and legal libel!) I'll nix the original question.

@backslashbaby I know a few members of Congress who would disagree

Foley said:

backslashbaby, I can't find a source for this with the time I have right now, but I'm pretty sure the military were involved in toy gun design in the 60's and 70's (even in pc games today - drone operators get an early start?) - in the interests of fairness though (and legal libel!) I'll nix the original question.

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Thanks for trying to find it

acockey said:

@backslashbaby I know a few members of Congress who would disagree

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Oh, I know. I strongly support Constitutional studies in high school, if that tells you anything about by thoughts on that.

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The NRA have descended into self parody.