The Dis-information Czar...

Andrew

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There is no reason to do this and it has nothing to do with tapping terrorists conversations.
If the Whitehouse wants to know what is being said, they may 1. read the bill and 2. attend a town hall meeting.
There is plenty of information available to our overseers, all they have to do is--my gosh!--work a lilttle bit.
The "program" is an outrage in my view but not surprising. It is merely part of the change.
I have voluntarily turned myself in.
 
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Robert Toy

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There is no reason to do this and it has nothing to do with tapping terrorists conversations.
If the Whitehouse wants to know what is being said, they may 1. read the bill and 2. attend a town hall meeting.
There is plenty of information available to oour overseers, all they have to do is--my gosh!--work a lilttle bit.
The "program" is an outrage in my view but not surprising. It is merely part of the change.
I have voluntarily turned myself in.
my bold



psst...there is no bill to read
 

Andrew

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There is text--I will try to find the whole thing but have received a number of sections--the house bill.
 

Celia Cyanide

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There is no reason to do this and it has nothing to do with tapping terrorists conversations.
If the Whitehouse wants to know what is being said, they may 1. read the bill and 2. attend a town hall meeting.

How would doing either of these things tell them what disinformation was being spread on the internet?
 

Andrew

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Can any of them use a computer? It's not hard to find sites. That's my point. Emails belong to the sender and receiver don't they?
 

Zoombie

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This sounds like something to try and fight against the Deathers and other morons like that.

You know, the people forwarding E-mails telling people that the health care plan will forcibly euthanize old people.
 

Robert Toy

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The 14 July version is a draft bill that has been highly modified, just from a cost issue was reduced from $1.5 trillion, according to the last committee down to less than $1 trillion.

To my knowledge there is no later version, which would still make it draft and not submitted to the House for debate and vote.

Officially nothing has been submitted
 

Celia Cyanide

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Can any of them use a computer? It's not hard to find sites. That's my point. Emails belong to the sender and receiver don't they?

Information doesn't don't really "belong" to anyone. If you send an email blast, you shouldn't be bothered if someone passes it on to someone else. Most of them were forwarded from other people.
 

Robert Toy

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They don't really "belong" to anyone. If you send an email blast, you shouldn't be bothered if someone passes it on to someone else. That's what they're intended for.
how about "...or through casual conversation..."?
 

Robert Toy

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Are people being asked to report the names and email addresses of people who have spoken misinformation in casual conversation?

But yeah, I do think anything you say in casual conversation may be passed on to others.
From the OP link

“There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. “

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/

Passing on hearsay, is well sort of spreading rumors.
 

Celia Cyanide

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From the OP link

“There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. “

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/

Passing on hearsay, is well sort of spreading rumors.

I know. I read it, too. I don't see anyone asking for names and email addresses of people speaking in casual conversation.

Passing on hearsay is, well sort of spreading rumors. And if you're spreading rumors, they're hardly confidential between you and those you spread them to. It seems the White House just wants to know what rumors are being spread.
 

POPASMOKE

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...It seems the White House just wants to know what rumors are being spread.

I have to say it.

If this, or something similar were an initiative by the previous administration, many defending the subject of this thread would be howling about big brother surveillance, and orwellian interference.
 

Celia Cyanide

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I have to say it.

If this, or something similar were an initiative by the previous administration, many defending the subject of this thread would be howling about big brother surveillance, and orwellian interference.

I know. And it would be just fine that way, too. Things like this should be questioned. There is no reason why they shouldn't be, no matter who does them.
 

AMCrenshaw

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Disinformation? Yes, please, correct any disinformation. Why should anyone argue with that? Now will there be a committee to see to it this group isn't forcing lies to sell a product?


AMC
 

Gregg

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The 14 July version is a draft bill that has been highly modified, just from a cost issue was reduced from $1.5 trillion, according to the last committee down to less than $1 trillion.

To my knowledge there is no later version, which would still make it draft and not submitted to the House for debate and vote.

Officially nothing has been submitted

Be very careful of believing these cost "estimates".
For example, when Medicare began in 1966 is cost $3 billion and the estimated cost for 1990 was $12 billion.
Actual cost in 1990 was $107 billion.

Not even close.
 

JoNightshade

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This sounds like something to try and fight against the Deathers and other morons like that.

You know, the people forwarding E-mails telling people that the health care plan will forcibly euthanize old people.

This is kind of off topic, and nothing personal directed at you, Zoombie - but I'm hearing sentiments like this more and more: Derisive comments aimed at those who fear that the government will start killing old/young/infirm/imperfect people. The attitude of "Oh please, as if that could ever happen in the United States."

Many of our elders remember a time when everyone thought that people in civilized nations could never commit horrible atrocities against their fellow men. When reports of concentration camps started coming in, people didn't believe it. Some people still don't believe it (and shame on them).

So you'll have to forgive some of us for being hyper vigilant. Even a little paranoid. We know how very, very easy it is for good, "civilized" people and governments to turn into monsters. Freedom comes at a cost, and we must be very careful to protect it. That's partly why so many people are calling for a careful examination of a bill that would cause such huge changes in our society. It's not enough simply to have good intentions.

"Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves."
 

sandyn

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As one old enough to be very concerned, let me add my kudos to your sound and reasoned post.
 

benbradley

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I can see why people would be suspicious about any government collecting information like this. However, like William, unless I find out that they are collecting names and email address, I can't be too upset about it.
I can say with certainty names and emails are being saved, because there are surely laws that require all emails that enter the White House to be archived. ISTR there was a Clinton scandal about "lost" or deleted emails.

Whether they're being "collected" and sorted through to say "this person is spreading that disinformation" well I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised. Just the fact that everything is saved makes it as easy to do it any time in the future (even by a different administration) as now.
I do think that spreading disinformation over the internet can be far reaching, and I can see why they would want to know what kind of crap was floating around.
Requesting others to send them crap isn't doing their job. As I say below, emails that tend to get copied and forwarded more than a few times invariably end up on blog and websites.

They're being lazy (if this is the only thing they're doing as far as "gathering disinformation," and I doubt that). They should be going to read political blogs themselves to see what "the opposition" is saying. Yeah, there are thousands if not a hundred thousand blogs where at least one post is political, but it's THEIR (White House workers) job to sort through it and find the "fishy" stuff, not the general public.

I'm tempted do a little Googling and send a link to every blog I see that mentions "health care" or "health insurance" and let THEM sort it all out.

BTW, are they reading THIS thread? It's publicly available, there's no reason (outside of the vastness of discussion on the Internet and this being one of thousands if not millions of discussions on the White House Disinformation Collectopn Project) they can't.
I'm not particularly worried or scared that anyone is in danger of getting their hand slapped by Obama, but I understand why this is being questioned.

It looks suspicious b/c people are encouraged to forward their e-mails (which would include personal info) and such to the white house.

If the intent is to have access to the "mis-information" why do they need citizens to forward their e-mails? This "mis-information" is readily available to any 20 yr old white house intern with an internet connection.
Yes, exactly.
Information doesn't don't really "belong" to anyone. If you send an email blast, you shouldn't be bothered if someone passes it on to someone else. Most of them were forwarded from other people.

Sometimes, but not always. Remember, there is a difference between a Service Provider keeping your content "confidential" and you actually "owning" it.
Emails are copyright the writer (who is often the original sender). But many of these things are anonymous "Look what they're about to do! Send this to everyone you know!" chaon-mail type things.

Also, once a few dozen email copies get send around, copies get posted to blogs indexed by Google and anyone can find and red them.
 

Roger J Carlson

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This is kind of off topic, and nothing personal directed at you, Zoombie - but I'm hearing sentiments like this more and more: Derisive comments aimed at those who fear that the government will start killing old/young/infirm/imperfect people. The attitude of "Oh please, as if that could ever happen in the United States."

Many of our elders remember a time when everyone thought that people in civilized nations could never commit horrible atrocities against their fellow men. When reports of concentration camps started coming in, people didn't believe it. Some people still don't believe it (and shame on them).

So you'll have to forgive some of us for being hyper vigilant. Even a little paranoid. We know how very, very easy it is for good, "civilized" people and governments to turn into monsters. Freedom comes at a cost, and we must be very careful to protect it. That's partly why so many people are calling for a careful examination of a bill that would cause such huge changes in our society. It's not enough simply to have good intentions.

"Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves."
One needn't go back to the Nazis to find a government spying on its citizenry and using that information to prosecute them for political reasons.

Under J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI spied on American citizens under 8 presidents from Roosevelt to Nixon. The House Unamerican Activities Committee led by McCarthy relied heavily on this information.

It can happen here because it has already happened here. Bush's Patriot Act was not the beginning and it's interesting to note that Obama, far from repealing the act has embraced many of its powers:

Obama Administration Maintains Bush Position on 'Extraordinary Rendition' Lawsuit
Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU said of the decision: “Eric Holder’s Justice Department stood up in court today and said that it would continue the Bush policy of invoking state secrets to hide the reprehensible history of torture, rendition and the most grievous human rights violations committed by the American government.

An emerging progressive consensus on Obama's executive power and secrecy abuses
Sen. Russ Feingold -- probably the single most praised liberal politician of the last eight years -- declared himself "troubled" by the Obama administration's conduct on secrecy and illegal surveillance and said he would seek to enact legislation to limit Obama's powers as soon as possible.

Anyone who was troubled by the Bush Administration should also be troubled by the Obama Adminstration's stance on information gathering.