Psychologists repudiate gay-to-straight therapy

semilargeintestine said:

I only know a handful of people who would choose to be discriminated against like that.

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I went with a friend to her church youth group a few times as a teen. one evening we were told that while there may be some biological component to gay attraction, you choose to act on it (and, if you were strong, you would choose not to act on it).

His friend may have heard something similar when he was young and it may, unfortunately, have stuck.

To borrow Kathleen's representation of a particular viewpoint presented by some churches:

While there may be some biological component to heterosexual attraction, you choose to act on it (and if you were strong, you would choose not to act on it).

It strikes me as more than a little hypocritical to condemn people for practicing homosexuality, yet give a pass to all the affairs, pre-marital sex, and serial monogamy via divorce that run rampant through modern society (and dare I say most churches).

Don said:

It strikes me as more than a little hypocritical to condemn people for practicing homosexuality, yet give a pass to all the affairs, pre-marital sex, and serial monogamy via divorce that run rampant through modern society (and dare I say most churches).

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Most of those churches do not give a pass to all of that, though. The Catholic church, for example, does does not allow divorce, pre-marital sex, or adultery. The hypocrisy comes when individuals use their religion as an excuse to discriminate against gays, when they do not discriminate against those who do these other things. In the Catholic church, practicing homosexuality is the same as pre-marital sex. But many seem to conveniently forget that.

Kathleen42 said:

I went with a friend to her church youth group a few times as a teen. one evening we were told that while there may be some biological component to gay attraction, you choose to act on it (and, if you were strong, you would choose not to act on it).

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This is exactly what I was saying - equated to alcoholism, drug addiction, adultery...

I know of no church who gives a "pass" to adultery or divorce. Are people who are divorced allowed to come to the service? Absolutely. Though I also have never attended a church who would not allow a homosexual into the congregation either. Whatever my thoughts on any of that stuff, if someone wants to go to church, IMO, they should be allowed to go to church. Obviously, they are seeking spiritual guidance - I am not saying spiritual guidance necessarily to "overcome" any sort of addiction or be forgiven for adultery or whatever, I just mean spiritual guidance in general.

Diana Hignutt said:

Proving that even God loves hot lesbian action.

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So, is He a He?

I have to wonder how the American Psychological Association would feel if, say, the Southern Baptist Convention suggested that its members either refrain from psychological counciling altogether or switch psychologists until they found one that told them what they wanted to hear.

maxmordon said:

So, is He a He?

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Why? Chicks can't get turned on by hot lesbian action?

We all know real chicks are only turned on by some massive muscled male topping them and pounding them into oblivion.

Diana Hignutt said:

Why? Chicks can't get turned on by hot lesbian action?

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Straight chicks can definitely get turned on by hot lesbian action.

Apparent consensus: hot lesbian action is good.

Alpha Echo said:

Straight chicks can definitely get turned on by hot lesbian action.

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So the mystery continues....

maxmordon said:

So the mystery continues....

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Mystery? How is there mystery? Girls are cute, boobs are fun. There's no mystery in that.

What remains a mystery to me is why these texts seem to think it's okay for the goose, but not the gander. Looks like one hell of a double standard to me.

It only looks like a double standard to you because you're not a straight guy, jenn.

jennontheisland said:

What remains a mystery to me is why these texts seem to think it's okay for the goose, but not the gander. Looks like one hell of a double standard to me.

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I think part of it, to be honest, is that women aren't really seen as being as important as men in a lot of biblical text (or, at least, in my impression of biblical text). I think it's less an issue of them thinking female masturbation is wrong and more of an issue of it not occurring to them that women woudl have those desires.

I have to wonder how the American Psychological Association would feel if, say, the Southern Baptist Convention suggested that its members either refrain from psychological counciling altogether or switch psychologists until they found one that told them what they wanted to hear.

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Hopefully like Disney did.

maxmordon said:

So the mystery continues....

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There's no mystery. Women's bodies are much sexier than mens' in general...we can appreciate other womens' bodies...and a little action. I don't like very graphic stuff but some making out and fondling...

Turns me on for my man!

I have to say that Ben's original quote made it sound like a binary decision -- be celibate or switch churches. (I admit I missed the word "range" on first read.) The full text of the article is much more reasonable.

I agree that changing someone's orientation is not likely possible, but helping someone to live a straight life, even if they have gay tendencies, should be an option if that's what the patient wants.

Roger J Carlson said:

I agree that changing someone's orientation is not likely possible, but helping someone to live a straight life, even if they have gay tendencies, should be an option if that's what the patient wants.

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but even if they want to live a 'straight life' it seems that encouraging a patient to live a lie would be a big mistake.

i'd hope that the american psychological association would be smarter than that.

...unless they're just setting themselves up for repeat business.

did i say that? sounds horrible.

dude seriously, does it have to be that big??

jennontheisland said:

Mystery? How is there mystery? Girls are cute, boobs are fun. There's no mystery in that.

What remains a mystery to me is why these texts seem to think it's okay for the goose, but not the gander. Looks like one hell of a double standard to me.

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Mystery was a jokingly reference to the idea of God's gender...

jennontheisland said:

dude seriously, does it have to be that big??

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How many times I must remember to wait an hour after eating to visit AW. Seriously, Clay...

cray said:

but even if they want to live a 'straight life' it seems that encouraging a patient to live a lie would be a big mistake.

i'd hope that the american psychological association would be smarter than that.

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But I thought the whole process of psychology was the doctor and patient working together to solve the problem to the patient's satisfaction, not to deliver pronouncements from on high.

Suppose a married man discovers (or rather finally realizes) his attraction for other men. Should he divorce simply so that he doesn't live a lie? Especially if he loves his wife and doesn't want to? Isn't it reasonable to help such a man come to grips with his problem and suggest solutions that will allow him to keep the life he has -- that he wants to continue to have?

Roger J Carlson said:

Suppose a married man discovers (or rather finally realizes) his attraction for other men. Should he divorce simply so that he doesn't live a lie? Especially if he loves his wife and doesn't want to? Isn't it reasonable to help such a man come to grips with his problem and suggest solutions that will allow him to keep the life he has -- that he wants to continue to have?

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If he loves his wife and doesn't want to leave her, what is the problem? My husband is attracted to other men, and I'm attracted to other women.

Being married to a woman doesn't suddenly turn off a man's ability to be attracted to other women. I imagine being attracted to men would work the same way: look but don't touch.

Unless, of course, the spouse is okay with the touching.