What subjects won't you touch?

maestrowork said:

Let me get this straight? Because something (e.g incest) is morally wrong, it should be avoided? Hmmm? There are quite a few things that are "morally wrong": rape, pedophilia, murder, torture, cannibalism, etc. etc. All of which have been written about, discussed, dissected, fictionalized, etc. throughout history.

So I still see there should be no topics off limits here. Just because you write about incest doesn't mean you agree with it personally. I do try to separate the work from the person, thank you very much.

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Maestro, anytime someone misrepresents what I write, I will not hesitate to dress them upside and downside. So please read very carefully:

The question in the OP was: what would you avoid writing about? And my answer was that I would avoid writing about incest.

And then Kuwis asked: what is INTRINSICALLY wrong with incest. And I replied with my opinion of what is INTRINSICALLY wrong with incest.

Now, as for my response to the post by you that I have quoted....

I have no problem with other people writing about incest--let them. Their choice. But my choice is a big fat "No."

Meanwhile, I make it a habit (especially in screenwriting) to very strongly warn other writers AGAINST ever trying to JUSTIFY incest in their writings (especially film scripts), because ultimately there is no justification for it or allowance for it or tolerance of it found anywhere in human society. If writers (especially screenwriters) want to TRY to somehow come up with a story idea where incest is justified, they will probably fail, and that is why I try to explain why they will most likely fail (espeically screenwriters).

But if they STILL want to try, at least they were warned. And then they will hopefully embark upon the task with a newfound soberness.

I do NOT restrict what other people write, I only restrict myself. And then I try to give friendly advice and opinions to other writers ... when they ask for it.

Please do NOT ever ever say about me: "Plot Device tries to tell other writers what they cannot write about in their scripts and novels" because that it not true.

Not.

True.

Thank you very much.

kuwisdelu said:

Oh, don't get me wrong, the idea is quite repulsive to me, too. If there is no procreation or rape involved, though,--even thought I find it extremely gross, myself--I'm not sure what's morally wrong with it, if anything. I certainly agree it most likely came about to avoid the dangerous birth defects of inbreeding, which certainly explains why it's almost universally taboo. Most things I find morally repugnant, I can rationally see why it's morally wrong. Whereas with incest, I can't figure out what's so wrong as long as there's no procreation (other than the grossness factor).

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I think there are very few people who have passed through an incestuous relationship that didn't come out permanently damaged by it. Even if they were willing participants, the regret afterward most likely prove to be a life-long head trip and impossible to avoid.

If anyone wants to write about it, be mindful that there are people out there who have been victimized by it who are capable of being impacted by your words. I learned that the hard way in college when I made a casual comment about incest in class (I think either psychology or philosophy class, I don't recall) and a girl came up to me later and said I didn't know what the hell I was talking about. And I got told later that she had been a victim of incest. So I just won't even go there anymore.




Meanwhile, trying to portray incest with delicacy in a novel is probably far less of a risk than in a movie because novels are by nature introspective. But doing it on screen is more challenging and more prone to pitfalls and landmines because of the reduced opportunity for interior thoughts in a film, as well as the conflicting visual signals people get from watching physical intimacy on the screen.

I'm not getting too deep into this sorted conversation except to add my support to Plot Device's views.

Plot Device said:

Meanwhile, trying to portray incest with delicacy in a novel is probably far less of a risk than in a movie because novels are by nature introspective. But doing it on screen is more challenging and more prone to pitfalls and landmines because of the reduced opportunity for interior thoughts in a film, as well as the conflicting visual signals people get from watching physical intimacy on the screen.

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There's a very good Korean movie, called Oldboy (roughly corresponds to something like "alumnus" or "classmate"). There are spoilers ahead for anyone who feels like watching a great Korean revenge movie. Anyway, the plot involves a man--back in high school--who witnessed one of his wealthy classmates having an intimate moment with his sister. The MC told the rest of the school what happened, and essentially ruined the brother's reputation. Many years later, the MC is attacked and incarcerated in a hotel room that's a kind of mafia-like prison, where he is often knocked out with sleeping gas and has nothing to do but watch TV. Finally, one day, he escapes, and meets a beautiful young girl, and they fall in love. The MC embarks on a revenge quest to kill those responsible for his incarceration, eventually leading him to the incestuous brother. Here, he learns the brother's sister killed herself, and her brother's been suffering with the painful memories ever since. But just as the MC is about to kill his tormentor, the brother reveals his true reasons for locking the MC away...every time he was gassed, he was brainwashed into forgetting his former life, his daughter, and he discovers the brother had arranged that the young girl he fell in love with is his daughter. The movie ends with the MC in tears, and the brother walking away, his revenge complete--now the MC understands the pain he was in.

Anyway, I definitely think it can be well done. It was never justified, but it was never condemned but for the MC's tears, and I certainly felt rather sick afterward. Great movie, though.

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread too much....

Maybe we can drop the incest subject??? I've read many books that had incest in them. You can either stomach it as a topic or you cannot. The thread was a great idea. What topics will you not write about. I don't think it was WHAT TOPICS ARE YOU TRYING TO CONVINCE OTHER PEOPLE NOT TO WRITE ABOUT.

Can we PLEASE return to our regularly scheduled programming?

I refuse to write about KTC.

Sorry, sorry.

In on-topic news, I've never wanted to write anything political before. Wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole. Now I'm kind of wondering if I could do it. I'll still never write anything about economics, though. Eww.

SPMiller said:

I refuse to write about KTC.

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You have no idea how LARGE of a group you are in.

Plot, I was not addressing you specifically. It was a general musing on the topic. Chill.

I still can't think of anything I absolutely wouldn't write, if the story calls for it. Give me another minute...

I'll never write about suburbs or "the country." It's either middle-of-nowhere Indian res desert (my home town) or big city. I can't deal with the in-betweens. I just can't bring myself to write about suburban life.

Actually...upthread I said nothing is taboo for me. I will stand by that, but I agree...I just find politics so uninteresting and dreadful. I have never written about it and I am sure I never will. I sometimes have to stop and think to figure out who the current US president or Canadian Prime Minister is...that's how dreadful I find it. (Stephen Harper and George Bush right now, right???)

Political writing is a turn-off for me, too. If a book is very engaging, I'll read it even if there are strong political views (perhaps the author got a little overzealous?). But it takes me just that much out of the story.

I don't mind subtle political undercurrents in novels, but I don't like feeling preached to when I want to read a story.

I also won't write about mermaids. Absolutely refuse. No way, no how, never...

Oldboy is a good film, but I think The Brotherhood is better, this isn't about incest btw. ,There again, I love the foreign, non-Hollywood, cinema anyway

kuwisdelu said:

There's a very good Korean movie, called Oldboy (roughly corresponds to something like "alumnus" or "classmate"). There are spoilers ahead for anyone who feels like watching a great Korean revenge movie. Anyway, the plot involves a man--back in high school--who witnessed one of his wealthy classmates having an intimate moment with his sister.

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SPMiller said:

I also won't write about mermaids. Absolutely refuse. No way, no how, never...

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PFFT. Well GOOD. The market will be saturated once my book gets out.

HA.

(Hehe, saturated, get it? Water? Aquatic creatures? Saturated?)

Danger Jane said:

PFFT. Well GOOD. The market will be saturated once my book gets out.

HA.

(Hehe, saturated, get it? Water? Aquatic creatures? Saturated?)

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LOL I C WAT U DID THAR

* GROAN *

That's the sound of a frog prince.

(note the low image quality...this is an ORIGINAL ROFLCAT.)

Is that a Far Cry screenie in the background?

At this point, I'm avoiding Islam, the Prophet, and the US Bill of Rights.

Maybe I will avoid writing about the Satanic verses found in the Koran, and also about the wife of Mohammed.




And for the record: Plot Device is always chilled (although sometimes shaken, yet rarely stirred).








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Sigh, Boring cats... Time to leave the thread, methinks.

Jenifer said:

This post in this thread woke up the old brain weevil...

In my current WIP, a handful of children are tortured and killed. It is heavy stuff, hard to take emotionally, and- I suspect, not being a parent myself- it will be tough on parents. I do not, as a general rule, go into a lot of gory detail for the sake of turning stomachs... but if I'm to keep with the truth of the story, these scenes must stay in. The children and their fates motivate my MC and my villain and craziness abounds.

Thoughts?

Do you have a "stop" switch? What trips it?

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Maybe it's because I'm a parent, a grandparent, and/or a big sissy, but there's no way I would/could ever write about the torture and killing of children. No problem with others doing so, of course.

There are several genres I have no interest in trying such as sci-fi/fantasy, horror and chick lit.

Bayou Bill

I don't know that there is anything I won't write about, though I would have a very hard time describing child abuse. Three weeks working a temp job at the state social services agency filled my head with enough trauma to last a lifetime - and all I was doing was updating files. I lasted two weeks longer than most temps. People do vile things to their kids and the last thing I want to do is repeat them, even if the story has a happy ending.

That being said, my last MC was a child soldier and was forced to do and endure all sorts of horrible things, most of which I never mention. The one rape scene is a memory, and he knows his teenaged brain cleaned it up to be less horrific than it really was. I struggled writing that scene, and warned one of my betas who had been sexually assaulted that she might want to skip it. She read it and said I handled it well, but it still disturbs me. I guess that's sort of the point.

The one thing that I have tried writing over and over again, because my novel is a romance, is the first time sex scene. I write it, and then I go back and read it and it just sounds so awful. I realized that I am uncomfortable even reading these types of scenes, so no wonder I have trouble writing them! I have since decided to merely allude to the consumation. I figured if I was uncomfortable writing it, the reader would be uncomfortable reading it. Besides, I think the MCs deserve a little privacy, don't you?