Number of Scenes

There isn't a acceptable number of scenes... Action Movies tend to have more scenes than Drama for example - As far as I remember the average action movie has between 120 and 140 scenes while the average drama has about 85 to 105 scenes. But this is not a rule .

Okay, maybe you guys can break this down for me. I'm far from being "hip" on all the technical terms, I just write the damn things.

Anyway, I count a scene as what occurs between sluglines. Like on my horror I consider the first seven pages one scene, in which she eliminates her entire family one at a time.

Do I have the basics of the scene correct or am I mislabeling, because I don't think I've come anywhere near even 80 scenes the way I do it.

^ That's what I define as a "scene." I always thought sluglines were meant to indicate that a new scene is beginning.

50-70 scenes, give or take. Basically, 20 is weird and 200 is weird. Ideally, the AVERAGE scene is 2 pages. Some are gonna be a bit longer, some a bit shorter.

Most people define a single scene as everything that takes place under a single slug line. And that's a handy rule of thumb.

However. Since sluglines contain LOCATION headings, a single 'scene' might include more than one slugline. A perfect example of this would be 'the phone call scene'. We start by establishing JOHN at the airport. Then MARY at home on the phone. INTERCUT between the two - you have a couple of sluglines, its probably TWO LOCATIONS for set-up and filming purposes, but it's one SCENE for dramatic purposes.

Likewise, its possible to have more than one 'scene' at a single location. Imagine

INT: JACKSON HIGH GYMNASIUM - NIGHT

as the location for the High School reunion. You've got maybe three main characters storylines your following. Its possible to write a 'scene' that takes place entirely by the punchbowl. -A scene that takes place entirely on the dance floor- And a scene that takes place at the registration desk. You may or may not 'intercut' between the scenes. They might stand alone. Once the LOCATION slugline is established, you could use sub-slugs to indicate a change of 'scenes' within the locations.

INT:JACKSON HIGH GYMNASIUM - NIGHT

Blah blah blah

PUNCHBOWL
Blah lauj jah

DANCE FLOOR

Yah dah YAH duh



So, the HIGH SCHOOL REUNION is one 'dramatic' scene and location, with three sub-scenes included.

Okay, so I have my definition right. Okay, I'm good.

icerose said:

Anyway, I count a scene as what occurs between sluglines.

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Sounds generally correct... WriterKnight elaborated nicely.

icerose said:

Like on my horror I consider the first seven pages one scene, in which she eliminates her entire family one at a time.

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My first impression of that statement is wow - albeit a soft wow. Starting with a seven page scene is not something I would, generally, think of as the best way to start a script. But, you may have pulled it off perfectly well.

icerose said:

Do I have the basics of the scene correct or am I mislabeling, because I don't think I've come anywhere near even 80 scenes the way I do it.

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Well, horror scripts are generally shorter, so there's that. I don't write horror scripts, so I may be wrong, but those previous two statements of yours, in conjunction, might lead me to think you have too few scenes. Maybe. Of course, there's also my interpretation of what "I don't think I've come anywhere near even 80" means exactly. Maybe you don't mean as few as I infer.

I know this stuff was mentioned in a previous thread, just can't find it.

dpaterso said:

Wasn't it George Lucas who's quoted as saying a screenplay is just sixty two-minute scenes?

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I'm not sure the source, but I believe I'm familiar with the quote.

For me, I think 60 would be low.

I use a fair number of half page scenes. That's my style.

Found It

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2046691#post2046691

Apparently, my memory does not serve me as well as I thought...

The thread delineates that I had:

107 page script - 65 scenes

110 page script - 86 scenes

(For those that don't investigate further [in the other thread], those are ballparks and I have more sluglines - for the 110/86, I suggest that I have at least 100 sluglines.)

Both psychological drama, but quite different in style.

I've got a few places where there are even quarter page scenes, like when two women go shopping. It's really 4 or 5 scenes, but in my head, I think of them like only one, but because the slugline changes, so does the scene.

Lillyth said:

I've got a few places where there are even quarter page scenes,

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Of course, so do I.

Heck, I wrote a scene today that is three lines long, including the slugline.

MilesGX said:

Wow, with 86 scenes, it will make my plot long.

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I fear you're looking at this wrong. First, everyone's different, stories are different, genres are different, etc... Second, the number of scense won't necessarily make your "plot long."

Scene length and, therefore, number of scenes have to do with pacing. There is definitely advice out there not to have too many scenes that are too long

Icerose's horror script starts with a seven page scene. That would lead me to assume that there are more scenes of such length throughout the script, which (to be perfectly honest) would biased me against the script.

Icerose - are there other scenes of such length? If not, why start with one so long - it sets up an expectation in my mind. For instance, start with action and you expect action later in the script... start with a joke and you expect more jokes later in the script.

All that being said, I don't know the logistics behind this 7 page intro scene - I could be way off base, but I have initial impressions. Then again, as mentioned, I'm not a horror writer or watcher (so, it's not my territory).

Now if I was writing Icerose's seven page scene, I'd have it broken up by slug lines - after all, bits of the action take place in several different rooms. Though I'd call this one scene, it's definitely made up of several sub-scenes. It doesn't feel too long at all.

I'm no expert on the 'save-the-cat' method, but from the little I've read it seems to suggest about 40 scenes... Anyone know more about this?

But Miles, it looks like you're going about this wrong. No point planning for a certain number of scenes if you don't have the material to fill them with, and no point scraping the bottom of the creative barrel for material. Form the story fully first and work to that, not the other way round!

LIVIN said:

Icerose's horror script starts with a seven page scene. That would lead me to assume that there are more scenes of such length throughout the script, which (to be perfectly honest) would biased me against the script.

Icerose - are there other scenes of such length? If not, why start with one so long - it sets up an expectation in my mind. For instance, start with action and you expect action later in the script... start with a joke and you expect more jokes later in the script.

All that being said, I don't know the logistics behind this 7 page intro scene - I could be way off base, but I have initial impressions. Then again, as mentioned, I'm not a horror writer or watcher (so, it's not my territory).

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You can read it, it's up in the Share your work forum right now. It's Kiki-13 (working title).

stuckupmyownera said:

Now if I was writing Icerose's seven page scene, I'd have it broken up by slug lines - after all, bits of the action take place in several different rooms. Though I'd call this one scene, it's definitely made up of several sub-scenes. It doesn't feel too long at all.

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That's exactly what's happened. I've used mini-slugs. It deals with four different locations within the same house, but it's still one event. It's fast moving and pretty brutal. I don't think it's a bad start for a horror, I've gotten some pretty positive feedback so I haven't dropped the audience by pure length.

And yes, it does have to start out this way, it kicks off the whole story.

icerose said:

That's exactly what's happened. I've used mini-slugs. It deals with four different locations within the same house, but it's still one event.

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I thought so. I was too lazy to go back and check. You just confused me when you said you took a scene to be what happened under sluglines, but that your scene was seven pages... Doesn't matter, you confused me, that's all!

In Ice's script I quickly counted 8 scenes (mini slugs are still slugs, you are changing location). It may be a 7 page sequence, but it is not a 7 page scene.

"In TV, stage plays and movies a scene is a part of the action in a single location" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scene_(film)).

7 page scenes are very very very very rare.

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I often do scene outlines for my scripts and I wouldn't worry about the number of scenes if I were you because you pretty much always end up outline sequences. Only when you get in there and actually write it do you realize they start in the bedroom and go out to the hallway and come back to the bedroom and that it's 3 scenes instead of one. So your scene outline pretty much always has less scenes than your script will have.

I say just outline it the way it needs to be, don't pad with extra scenes or anything, then take the next step and write it out completely, and when you have a finished script in your hand you can deal with whether the length is a problem.

zeprosnepsid said:

In Ice's script I quickly counted 8 scenes (mini slugs are still slugs, you are changing location). It may be a 7 page sequence, but it is not a 7 page scene.

"In TV, stage plays and movies a scene is a part of the action in a single location" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scene_(film)).

7 page scenes are very very very very rare.

*

I often do scene outlines for my scripts and I wouldn't worry about the number of scenes if I were you because you pretty much always end up outline sequences. Only when you get in there and actually write it do you realize they start in the bedroom and go out to the hallway and come back to the bedroom and that it's 3 scenes instead of one. So your scene outline pretty much always has less scenes than your script will have.

I say just outline it the way it needs to be, don't pad with extra scenes or anything, then take the next step and write it out completely, and when you have a finished script in your hand you can deal with whether the length is a problem.

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So you would call those large "scenes" sequences. I guess that makes sense, it is a sequence of events. I'm just lazy and call them all scenes.

stuckupmyownera said:

You just confused me when you said you took a scene to be what happened under sluglines, but that your scene was seven pages...

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That's where I got tripped up also. It sounds like you have four scenes in four different rooms, which makes my point moot.

I understand what you're (Icerose) saying here:

It deals with four different locations within the same house, but it's still one event.

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However, by that logic, certain movies could be justified as one scene because they comprise merely one event. Obviously not your typical movie, but they're out there.

Anyway, I also agree with the people saying not to start out by aiming for X number of scenes. Although, I find it interesting to compare number of scenes per script.

LIVIN said:

That's where I got tripped up also. It sounds like you have four scenes in four different rooms, which makes my point moot.

I understand what you're (Icerose) saying here:



However, by that logic, certain movies could be justified as one scene because they comprise merely one event. Obviously not your typical movie, but they're out there.

Anyway, I also agree with the people saying not to start out by aiming for X number of scenes. Although, I find it interesting to compare number of scenes per script.

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All the confusion is my fault, really, as I suck at technical terms. It's probably more of a sequence as Zep pointed out, rather than a real scene as it moves from room to room.

It's not as important for a writer to know the technicalities. Scenes are really important for production. If you sequence takes place bedroom-->hallway-->bathroom-->hallway or something, not dissimilar to ice's script, then they're going to shoot the two hallway scenes at the same time. They'll shoot the bedroom scene with the other bedroom scene on page 72. That's why scenes are delineated by location.

But when you pitch a script, it's much preferred that you talk in sequences. A lot of writers do.

Anyway, nothing to fret over ice. I'm terrible with technical terms on location. I've done cinematography before and I can do it, but heck if I know what anything is called. Often when directing I'll say 'can you get me the thing with the thing on it?' -- usually after a crew has worked with me a couple times they begin to understand my meaning....

zeprosnepsid said:

Anyway, nothing to fret over ice. I'm terrible with technical terms on location. I've done cinematography before and I can do it, but heck if I know what anything is called. Often when directing I'll say 'can you get me the thing with the thing on it?' -- usually after a crew has worked with me a couple times they begin to understand my meaning....

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Hahaha, that totally sounds like me. "Can you get me the thing with the thing on it?" That's great. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I think getting hung up on scene numbers is a dangerous and unnecessary preoccupation. I'm working on 47min TV dramas at the moment where the average number of scenes is fluctuating between 60 and 80 scenes per episode. The number of scenes seems to depend on the amount of action or drama occurring. Generally the more action the more scenes, because the pace needs to be higher you are not dwelling on scenes and you are jumping from scenario to scenario. Where as with drama sequences you are dwelling on emotions and the interaction between characters and this is normally paced in a more languid way and thus less scenes.

I personally think that there is no need to expect a certain number of scenes but at the same time I must say that if you are writing an action piece and your scene numbers for a feature film are in the regine of 60 scenes then you are probably way to low.

A scene should be anything that happens in one location, if you move characters into another room then it should be another scene, if you cut to someone on the phone in another place then that should be another scene, if you cut to what is happening to other characters in another part of the same location its a new scene...(ie. the one boxer and his trainer on the one side of the ring - NEW SCENE - the other boxer and his trainer - NEW SCENE - The boxer's mother watching).