The biggest mistake you can make.

Well there are different degrees of telepathy so I don't think it's quite that simple.
And a protagonist solving a problem with a talent only him and others "like him" have is so ubiquitous in SF/F that the assessment seems a little broad to me.

I agree though it's at least very difficult to write a suspense filled work in which the hero can freely look into everyone's head.

10er said:

I agree though it's at least very difficult to write a suspense filled work in which the hero can freely look into everyone's head.

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Which is why the best-written stories (IMHO) that use such gifts also require a cost of the user. Free range telepathy is boring. Telepathy that causes raging migraines for the user is much more interesting, because it requires something of the user. The same can be said for many a magic system in fantasy.

Come to think of it - can anyone point me to a novel where unlimited telepathy is well implemented? (No, not Tw***ght)
Don't think I've read any.

The biggest mistake you can make?

Replying in any manner whatsoever to a negative review.

I'm confused. Is this a question or a spam link? (No offense intended but they crop up from time to time.)

ChaosTitan said:

Which is why the best-written stories (IMHO) that use such gifts also require a cost of the user. Free range telepathy is boring. Telepathy that causes raging migraines for the user is much more interesting, because it requires something of the user. The same can be said for many a magic system in fantasy.

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Too often this gets worked into a false cost, or false weakness: either the author is afraid to actually make the character pay the cost (such as, if I may borrow from the example above, having the migraines happen when convenient for the MC), or the cost is miniscule (the migraines end up being gussied-up sinus headaches, with little actual impairment to the MC).

I think telepathy gets used with too little thought to the consequences. How would the average person react to someone intruding on their thoughts -- even if the intruder is ultimately benign? Does it require concerted effort to send a thought? Can the telepath also act as a mental eavesdropper? What do people think of that? There's plenty of opportunity for telepathy and similar powers to be developed into something terrifying (with or without delving into the horror genre). I'm actually delving into that territory with my WIP, though time will tell how well it turns out.

Admittedly I haven't actively sought out stories with telepathic characters (and horror isn't my cup of tea), so I don't know how often the topic is treated as more than "Mindspeech yay!" It seems to be the case most of the time, though.

Of course, I think Uncle Jim just trumped us all with his response to the thread

EDIT: On second look I think The Lonely One might be onto something. It looks like a cheap drive-by posting on closer inspection.

K_Woods said:

EDIT: On second look I think The Lonely One might be onto something. It looks like a cheap drive-by posting on closer inspection.

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But it spawned a valid discussion so it's all good I say.

K_Woods said:

Too often this gets worked into a false cost, or false weakness: either the author is afraid to actually make the character pay the cost (such as, if I may borrow from the example above, having the migraines happen when convenient for the MC), or the cost is miniscule (the migraines end up being gussied-up sinus headaches, with little actual impairment to the MC).

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I agree, and I adore authors who use real costs. There's a relatively new UF series out there by Devon Monk. In her series, magic is widely know and often used, but it has a physical and often debilitating cost to the user--migraines, body aches, even memory loss. And Monk is not cheap when it comes to doling out these costs; it's quite refreshing.

EDIT: On second look I think The Lonely One might be onto something. It looks like a cheap drive-by posting on closer inspection.

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Let's give Storyfixer the benefit of the doubt, folks. He's not only introed himself in the Newbie forum (spammers don't usually bother), but he's also participated in other threads not his (ditto above).

ChaosTitan said:

Let's give Storyfixer the benefit of the doubt, folks. He's not only introed himself in the Newbie forum (spammers don't usually bother), but he's also participated in other threads not his (ditto above).

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You have a point. I guess it was a little hasty.

I don't think telepathy is the biggest mistake you can make, but it's a very common one.

If there were telepaths in the real world, life would be drastically different than it is today. Imagine even one confirmed telepath. He'd probably be put to work solving murders. He'd turn the whole legal system upside down. So in order for telepathy be in your novel, you either need to turn the world upside down, or have some massive reason why it's all but worthless in practice.

The idea that it (along with its close cousin, prophecy) only works when it's convenient to the story, and always manages to give very interesting but not really terribly helpful information is common, but still requires a lot of suspension of disbelief. You sort of have to accept that God has a sense of humor at that point.

Honestly, I think the only reason it shows up in fiction so often is that it's easy to fake--lots of fake mindreaders in the real world means lots of people take it seriously as a possibility for good fiction. The fake mindreaders aren't reliable, therefore the real mindreaders don't have to be also.

These are just my opinions--I'm sure that many good books have been written around telepathy and it can be made to work, it's just that I don't find very plausible and for me, far more books have been ruined than helped by telepathy.

Storyfixer said:

Okay, there are a lot of available pitfalls. But here's one that's pretty unique to sci-fi/fantasy: the use of a telepathic gift to solve a problem. When a character can read minds, it's a cheat to use that to imbue the character with heroic traits simply because they know what someone else is thinking. Imagine a mind-reading detective... they're not brilliant or courageous (the traits of a great hero), they're simply vested with a talent. Make it tougher for your hero to gain the knowledge they need, rather than simply have them "know things" before anyone else. Hope this helps.

Larry
www.storyfix.com

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I think you are a bit off here. I see where you are going, but you are sorta wrong.

The real problem is what I bolded above.

I believe the real answer is in the Uncle Jim thread, you can do ANYTHING as long as it works.

10er said:

Come to think of it - can anyone point me to a novel where unlimited telepathy is well implemented? (No, not Tw***ght)
Don't think I've read any.

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Yes, there are a couple of stories that completed kicked ass in which the MC had unlimited telepathy.

ISAAC ASIMOV'S FOUNDATION Trilogy.

Can't believe no one thought of this one. THere is another series by Anne McCaffrey where many of the characters have unfettered telepathic abilities.

And then there is Orson Scott Card's, The Worthing Saga

As writers, I think we must always be on guard from our own egos in regards to what we think can and can not work.

Take a look at Pixar, their movies: Ratatunie, Wall-E, and UP.

Can you imagine pitching these movies to your 'typical' Hollywood exec.

Writer: "I have 3 super hot scripts i've just finished, these movies will be revolutionary, incredible never before told stories"

<hands script to Exec>

Exec: "What is this?" A movie about a rat that cooks, a trash compacting robot in the future who falls in love, a kid's movie with a 76 yr old protoganist that has a few scenes that will make you cry?"

Writer: "These stories are incredible and have tested through the roof"

Exec: "Look, where is the merchandising? Where are the explosions? I can't make a line of toys off of this? And besides, these scripts are WAY too complicated for the public, and what the hell, NO Dialogue? You have entire scenes without dialogue, that can never work."

So what do I think is the biggest mistake? Letting your preconceptions inadvertantly stifle a great idea. This usually happens when you start a statement with an absolute like 'Never'. Remember, the only thing that matters is if it works. And as long as you can institute interesting conflict, then you should be o.k.

Mel...

Thanks for the heads up.
Argh, I should really read stuff from canon authors like Asimov. Kind of unforgivable for wannabe SF authors like me to have almost no clue about them.
It's just... most of them have written so much it's difficult to filter the relevant parts.
Just that Foundation saga is 7 volumes all in all. Only 24 hours in a day!

Has everyone forgotten Bester's The Demolished Man?

I think the OP's main problem is that he's unfamiliar with the genre.

(His secondary problem was he was answering a question that hadn't been asked.)

10er said:

Thanks for the heads up.
Argh, I should really read stuff from canon authors like Asimov. Kind of unforgivable for wannabe SF authors like me to have almost no clue about them.
It's just... most of them have written so much it's difficult to filter the relevant parts.
Just that Foundation saga is 7 volumes all in all. Only 24 hours in a day!

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I've been reading a two books a month since I was 13 and have yet to find better books than the classics.

Clark, Assimov, Hienlein, Bova, Bear, Shelly, Vernes, etc.

And then there are those old school short stories. The most incredible sci-fi concepts owe their roots in many shorts.

You gotta read the classics. I mean, not reading the classics is like being an engineer that isn't familiar with Leonardi Di Vinci's concepts. Or being a psychotherapist that's never studied Frued, or being a physicist that isn't big on Einstein and Newton.

Mel...

Funny that I mentioned about telepathy getting treated as shiny and fluffy, and forgot an example of the opposite that I had come across.

One chapter from the first Kino's Journey novel (released under the title Kino no Tabi in the States, for reasons I cannot fathom) had Kino arrive in an apparently abandoned village. Later on, Kino discovers that the occupants had discovered the secret of telepathy, and....we'll just say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. (This chapter was also adapted for an episode of the animated TV series.) I would definitely recommend taking a look.

ChaosTitan said:

Let's give Storyfixer the benefit of the doubt, folks. He's not only introed himself in the Newbie forum (spammers don't usually bother), but he's also participated in other threads not his (ditto above).

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Fair enough. Since the thread was not posted as a question but rather more like a seminar, I think it set off my spidey sense.

Or, my telepathy

K_Woods said:

Funny that I mentioned about telepathy getting treated as shiny and fluffy, and forgot an example of the opposite that I had come across.

One chapter from the first Kino's Journey novel (released under the title Kino no Tabi in the States, for reasons I cannot fathom) had Kino arrive in an apparently abandoned village. Later on, Kino discovers that the occupants had discovered the secret of telepathy, and....we'll just say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. (This chapter was also adapted for an episode of the animated TV series.) I would definitely recommend taking a look.

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Now there's one I know. Nifty little episode in a series full of interesting philosophical concepts.
I can't see it being turned into anything more though. Only works in the series because it's viewed through an outsider's (Kino's) eyes.

Telepathy is a well-used device in countless books, films, TV shows, and stories.

Each writer has his or her own take on it.

It is a very good idea for one to read one's local library and see how other writers do things. It keeps you from reinventing the wheel.

My current fav in the device is possessed by Sookie Stackhouse in the Southern Vampire series by Charlaine Harris. They treat the books a bit different in the TV show True Blood, but overall, I'm sure Sookie would gladly get rid of her "gift" if she could.

It's not a gift I'd want. I have absolutely NO interest in knowing what everyone thinks. It'd be like visiting every Net blog at once, with no off switch!




And while I agree with Uncle Jim about NEVER responding to negative reviews--heck, I don't reply to positive ones!--there are exceptions.

Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child have boosted snark to an art form in their hilarious Rogue's Gallery.

OTOH, they can afford to get away with it!

I never thought of telepathy as being a free pass kind of thing - or an easy out. Maybe that's because every time my telepath uses his gift it's like turning on a homing beacon for the villain. The more he uses it, the closer the baddies come.

dgiharris said:

I've been reading a two books a month since I was 13 and have yet to find better books than the classics.

Clark, Assimov, Hienlein, Bova, Bear, Shelly, Vernes, etc.

And then there are those old school short stories. The most incredible sci-fi concepts owe their roots in many shorts.

You gotta read the classics. I mean, not reading the classics is like being an engineer that isn't familiar with Leonardi Di Vinci's concepts. Or being a psychotherapist that's never studied Frued, or being a physicist that isn't big on Einstein and Newton.

Mel...

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Gosh, I've never read Assimov, Hienlein, Shelly, Vernes, or Frued. I've made do with Asimov, Heinlein, Shelley, Verne and Freud. Never heard of Leonardi Di Vinci either. He related to Leonardo da Vinci?

On the flip side of telepathy.

In Norstrilia everyone is telepathic. Except the MC. He's considered handicapped because he can only communicate by actually talking to people.

Phaeal said:

Gosh, I've never read Assimov, Hienlein, Shelly, Vernes, or Frued. I've made do with Asimov, Heinlein, Shelley, Verne and Freud. Never heard of Leonardi Di Vinci either. He related to Leonardo da Vinci?

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Alright you!

That is enough of your Snark!!!

You snarky snark

K_Woods said:

I think telepathy gets used with too little thought to the consequences. How would the average person react to someone intruding on their thoughts -- even if the intruder is ultimately benign? .

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I always wonder how a father would feel if he could suddenly read his 16 year old daughter thought. That would be one hell of a price to pay.