A comment from the POV character inside another character's speak line?

Drogona · Nov 7, 2014

How do you format a dialogue if you want to put a (thought) comment from the POV character inside another character's speak line?

Can you put in the comment without making a new paragraph for it, like this?

"Why are you late?" I asked. "I've been waiting for over half an hour."
"It wasn't my fault, couldn't find my keys." Absent-minded Alex, it was probably an accomplishment that she had remembered to come at all. "Don't sulk, I'm here now, ain't I?"

Or would you have to make a new line as it isn't Alex thinking it?

"Why are you late?" I asked. "I've been waiting for over half an hour."
"It wasn't my fault, couldn't find my keys."
Absent-minded Alex, it was probably an accomplishment that she had remembered to come at all.
"Don't sulk, I'm here now, ain't I?"

Sorry for the dull examples, made it up for the question in general, sometimes you have character B speaking and you want to make a tiny input from the POV character to further explain B's personality or something the character B is speaking about. Would you have to make a new paragraph for every time you do it?

Carrie in PA · Nov 7, 2014

"Why are you late?" I asked even though I already knew the answer. Alex was absent-minded and it was probably an accomplishment that she had remembered to come at all. "I've been waiting for over half an hour."
"Don't sulk, I'm here now, ain't I? Besides, it wasn't my fault. Couldn't find my keys."

"Why are you late?" I asked. "I've been waiting for over half an hour."
"It wasn't my fault, couldn't find my keys."
She's so absent-minded, it's probably an accomplishment that she remembered to come at all.
"Don't sulk, I'm here now, ain't I?"

Meh. I'm not in love with either fix, but there are a couple of ways.

Unsavory · Nov 7, 2014

I don't know that your first example is technically incorrect, but it is a jarring transition and I don't think it reads well. My advice would be to use restraint with excessive thoughts, especially in this case where the sentiment of those thoughts is already revealed in the dialogue.

Anna Spargo-Ryan · Nov 7, 2014

I think the first one is fine, apart from the comma splice. Consider:

Absent-minded Alex; it was probably an accomplishment that she had remembered to come at all.

Roxxsmom · Nov 7, 2014

Carrie in PA said:
"Why are you late?" I asked even though I already knew the answer. Alex was absent-minded and it was probably an accomplishment that she had remembered to come at all. "I've been waiting for over half an hour."
"Don't sulk, I'm here now, ain't I? Besides, it wasn't my fault. Couldn't find my keys."

"Why are you late?" I asked. "I've been waiting for over half an hour."
"It wasn't my fault, couldn't find my keys."
She's so absent-minded, it's probably an accomplishment that she remembered to come at all.
"Don't sulk, I'm here now, ain't I?"

Meh. I'm not in love with either fix, but there are a couple of ways.

This seems like a place for some sort of action or behavior to provide some context for the exasperated thought. Also, something to consider is losing the limited third, first person italicized thought and instead just writing the thought as part of a deeper narrative. Maybe it's a style preference, but the naked italicized thought doesn't really click for me as well in this context.

"Why are you late?" I asked. "I've been waiting for over half an hour."
"It wasn't my fault, couldn't find my keys."
I put my hands on my hips and gave her my best long-suffering glare. The girl was so absent minded, it was probably an accomplishment that she remembered to come at all.
"Don't sulk," she said as if I were the one being unreasonable. "I'm here now, ain't I?"

BethS · Nov 8, 2014

Drogona said:
How do you format a dialogue if you want to put a (thought) comment from the POV character inside another character's speak line?

Can you put in the comment without making a new paragraph for it, like this?

"Why are you late?" I asked. "I've been waiting for over half an hour."
"It wasn't my fault, couldn't find my keys." Absent-minded Alex, it was probably an accomplishment that she had remembered to come at all. "Don't sulk, I'm here now, ain't I?"

Or would you have to make a new line as it isn't Alex thinking it?

"Why are you late?" I asked. "I've been waiting for over half an hour."
"It wasn't my fault, couldn't find my keys."
Absent-minded Alex, it was probably an accomplishment that she had remembered to come at all.
"Don't sulk, I'm here now, ain't I?"

Sorry for the dull examples, made it up for the question in general, sometimes you have character B speaking and you want to make a tiny input from the POV character to further explain B's personality or something the character B is speaking about. Would you have to make a new paragraph for every time you do it?

Carrie's fix is a good one.

BethS · Nov 8, 2014

Anna Spargo-Ryan said:
I think the first one is fine, apart from the comma splice. Consider:

Absent-minded Alex; it was probably an accomplishment that she had remembered to come at all.

The semi-colon is actually not correct there. Could be an em-dash, though, or a period.

Drogona · Nov 8, 2014

Thanks for the replies

.

I made up the example to illustrate the format problem so it might not have been the best example, it's the structure in general I have problem with.

Sometimes when a character speaking it triggers a thought of the POV character. Let's call the speaker Alex and the POV Megan. For the sake of the example we say what Megan thinks is important enough to not edit out. As it is Alex's speach that triggers the thought, the thought can't be put before Alex's speak line, as the thought isn't triggered yet. Putting it after Alex is finished speaking isn't a good option either as it misses the timing as Alex starts speaking about something else. You can make a seperate paragraph just for the thought but sometimes that looks jarring, the thought is important but not important enough to warrant a seperate paragraph for it.

New example, not great (creativity problems, making examples is hard

).

"So how are things going?" I asked.
"Great! More than great! I was at the store and found this beautiful pillow. It was so shiny and lovely blue I just had to buy it!" The color didn't surprise me, nothing in her house was anything but blue. "And then I went to see my mother and guess who else was there?"
"Your father?"
"No stupid, Gregor!"

"So how are things going?" I asked.
"Great! More than great! I was at the store and found this beautiful pillow. It was so shiny and lovely blue I just had to buy it!"
The color didn't surprise me, nothing in her house was anything but blue.
"And then I went to see my mother and guess who else was there?"
"Your father?"
"No stupid, Gregor!"

Anna Spargo-Ryan · Nov 8, 2014

BethS said:
The semi-colon is actually not correct there. Could be an em-dash, though, or a period.

Right you are!

MythMonger · Nov 8, 2014

I think either version works, but if you split the thought and dialogue into different paragraphs you should let the reader know who's talking after the thought.

Once! · Nov 8, 2014

Three thoughts:

1. Convey the POV character's emotions through the way that the other character is described.

2. Separate paragraph for the POV character's thoughts.

3. Don't give the POV character's thoughts. Show them reacting to the other character, but don't force feed the reader by telling them what the POV character is thinking. They should be able to work that out for themselves.

Imagine that you and I were sitting down in an English pub. Just sitting and chatting. No words on the page. I'll have a pint of bitter and you? A glass of wine? A coke?

You start to tell me a story. Something that happened to you. He said this and I said that and then ...

You wouldn't tell me all of your thoughts. You wouldn't need to. Your expression and the way you described things would tell me what you were thinking. And you almost certainly wouldn't interrupt a passage of speech to tell me what you were thinking.

That's often the cadence and rhythm we need for first person POV. One person telling another a story.

VeryBigBeard · Nov 8, 2014

Once! said:
That's often the cadence and rhythm we need for first person POV. One person telling another a story.

I personally find that cadence also really, really useful in getting third-person narration right. Treat it like telling a story.

I have a follow-up question on the same topic, though: if I have a line of dialogue and I need to add a narrative parenthetical in the middle of a line of dialogue, how do I do it?

My current attempt is something like this:

“And I understand,” he said in a quieter voice, “if I understand correctly—which I usually do—” Casin stifled a laugh “—that there are stories somewhere in this quest I'm following.

(Can you tell I have a slight em-dash addiction? I'm in the self-loathing phase.)

I'm about 98% sure the above is wrong in some way. I kind of hate breaking dialogue with em-dashes on principle. It's something I tend to cull on later revisions. But in that example the detail feels parenthetical and I'd use an em-dash or parentheses if it was straight prose. I'm not quite sure what the actual solution is. I realize I could rework the sentence, and probably should. This isn't the most polished example. I'm mostly interested in the concept for future reference, rather than fixing this specific line. I've just realized I have no idea how to use parentheticals in dialogue. Er, help?

“And I understand,” he said in a quieter voice, “if I understand correctly—which I usually do,” Casin stifled a laugh, “that there are stories somewhere in this quest I'm following.

That feels wrong to me somehow. The comma isn't strong enough and I get jarred because I read it like a dialogue tag and it's a parenthetical in the middle of the speaker's sentence. Maybe this is right and it's just me being an idiosyncratic reader?

“And I understand,” he said in a quieter voice, “if I understand correctly—which I usually do” (Casin stifled a laugh) “that there are stories somewhere in this quest I'm following.

I think I've seen it done like that, too, but that way feels awkward, too.

Can any of the more grammar-enlightened folk here lend a hand? Thanks!

LJD · Nov 8, 2014

VeryBigBeard,

See this thread: Interruption in dialogue with dashes

WriteMinded · Nov 8, 2014

Drogona said:
How do you format a dialogue if you want to put a (thought) comment from the POV character inside another character's speak line?

Can you put in the comment without making a new paragraph for it, like this?

"Why are you late?" I asked. "I've been waiting for over half an hour."
"It wasn't my fault, couldn't find my keys." Absent-minded Alex, it was probably an accomplishment that she had remembered to come at all. "Don't sulk, I'm here now, ain't I?"

Or would you have to make a new line as it isn't Alex thinking it?

"Why are you late?" I asked. "I've been waiting for over half an hour."
"It wasn't my fault, couldn't find my keys."
Absent-minded Alex, it was probably an accomplishment that she had remembered to come at all.
"Don't sulk, I'm here now, ain't I?"

Sorry for the dull examples, made it up for the question in general, sometimes you have character B speaking and you want to make a tiny input from the POV character to further explain B's personality or something the character B is speaking about. Would you have to make a new paragraph for every time you do it?

"Why are you late?" I asked. "I've been waiting for over half an hour."

"It wasn't my fault, couldn't find my keys."

Absent-minded Alex, it was probably an accomplishment that she had remembered to come at all.

"Don't sulk, I'm here now, ain't I?"

????

Jamesaritchie · Nov 8, 2014

I don't think any version works. It's too jarring. You know what you mean, but readers are going to be caught completely off guard.

BethS · Nov 8, 2014

VeryBigBeard said:
Can any of the more grammar-enlightened folk here lend a hand? Thanks!

If Casin is not the one saying that, then you need to take that line out of there and put it in its own paragraph.

VeryBigBeard · Nov 8, 2014

LJD said:
VeryBigBeard,

See this thread: Interruption in dialogue with dashes

Thanks, LJD. Should have checked Grammar and Syntax before posting....

BethS said:
If Casin is not the one saying that, then you need to take that line out of there and put it in its own paragraph.

In that particular example the reaction probably isn't doing enough to merit the jarring Jamesaritchie mentions. I agree that it isn't working the way I wanted it to. It's the principle of it, though. The scene is in Casin's POV, so if I need to have the narrative interject a new paragraph isn't practical because the reaction doesn't work with the pacing of the dialogue.

Solution in this situation: take it out because the problem isn't worth solving.

My worry is more that I didn't know how to solve the problem, though. To which LJD's thread is providing an answer, I think.

Thanks!

BethS · Nov 9, 2014

VeryBigBeard said:
In that particular example the reaction probably isn't doing enough to merit the jarring Jamesaritchie mentions. I agree that it isn't working the way I wanted it to. It's the principle of it, though. The scene is in Casin's POV, so if I need to have the narrative interject a new paragraph isn't practical because the reaction doesn't work with the pacing of the dialogue.

Solution in this situation: take it out because the problem isn't worth solving.

My personal solution would be the following, which I've seen done many times and I believe works perfectly well:

“And I understand,” he said in a quieter voice, “if I understand correctly, which I usually do—”

Casin stifled a laugh.

“—that there are stories somewhere in this quest I'm following."

This would look better in book print, where you don't have extra spaces between paragraph.

Once! · Nov 9, 2014

It's a personal thing, but I just wouldn't go there. If a character is speaking I'll let them speak. I wouldn't want my narrator character to interrupt to explain what the other person is saying or to react too strongly to it. The speech should stand on its own.

I've just finished reading "self editing for fiction writers" which recommends against giving too many stage directions to explain how characters are feeling. They liken it to the writer of a play who dashes on stage to explain a point about the plot or the character.

Usually best to leave it out. Show me what your narrator character feels in words and action, don't tell me.

BethS · Nov 10, 2014

Once! said:
It's a personal thing, but I just wouldn't go there. If a character is speaking I'll let them speak. I wouldn't want my narrator character to interrupt to explain what the other person is saying or to react too strongly to it. The speech should stand on its own.

In some cases, though, a character internal inserted at just the right moment in someone else's speech can add emotion or insight that wouldn't otherwise be present.

Of course, the insertion must enhance, not just be some randomly inserted body movement or reaction.

A comment from the POV character inside another character's speak line?

Drogona

Carrie in PA

Write All The Words!

Unsavory

Anna Spargo-Ryan

Just pokin' about

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

BethS

BethS

Drogona

Anna Spargo-Ryan

Just pokin' about

MythMonger

Willing to Learn

Once!

Still confused by shoelaces

VeryBigBeard

Preparing for winter

LJD

WriteMinded

Derailed

Jamesaritchie

BethS

VeryBigBeard

Preparing for winter

BethS

Once!

Still confused by shoelaces

BethS