Should I serialize my novel on the web?

The chances of the serialized novel on a webpage getting enough attention to get you a publishing deal for this book or the followup is extremely slim. Extremely.

In fact, so rare that I would only advise putting it up if you have given up hope of finding a publisher. Because once you serialize a substantial part of the first book, you have actually weakened the chance of finding a publisher for it unless it becomes a huge internet sensation. So...I'd only consider doing it if I'd given up on querying it.

But then, here's the possible downside you need to consider. You say it is "pulpy." Is it of publishable quality? If it's not of publishable quality, why would you want it up under your name? if you decide to query other writing, prospective agents or publishers might google you - and find this "pulpy" book. And judge your abilities by it. So...is it the best example of your writing? Good enough that you would want people to judge your writing abilities by it? If yes, then maybe consider posting it. If not, then I wouldn't post it.

~suki

I didn't think publishers would accept something that's appeared on the internet because they wouldn't make any money off of it. Why would someone buy the book if they can read it online for free?

NolaBlue said:

I didn't think publishers would accept something that's appeared on the internet because they wouldn't make any money off of it. Why would someone buy the book if they can read it online for free?

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On very, very, very rare occasions something posted on a blog gets enough attention to cause a publisher to want to acquire and print it. Very, very, very rarely. Like playing the lottery.

So, that's why I said it's a risk only to take if you have given up trying to get it published any other way. Because once it's up in any substantial form, it would have to become an internet sensation with a significant following for any publisher to want to acquire and publish it.

~suki

I think you would most likely be throwing away the value of that book. I would suggest you investigate the more reputable smaller presses for that genre.

Just dropped in looking for something else (haven't been here in ages), but thought I'd comment. I serialize novels on my blog as a regular feature, knowing that they are no longer publishable through traditional channels. Basically, you're giving up first rights by doing so.

That said, I'm self-publishing mine after I draft them on the blog, so that's another option you have as well.

Personally, I think serialization is perfect for pulpy novels...Amazon has a blog subscription feature now - you could even charge a nominal monthly fee for people to get it on Kindle... (just another idea)

Good luck, whatever you decide...
_____________
Jamie DeBree
Tempest (romantic suspense)
Web site | Facebook | Twitter

Question...

Is your blog already getting 30,000 hits a month? If not, your not going to get noticed...

thothguard51 said:

Question...

Is your blog already getting 30,000 hits a month? If not, your not going to get noticed...

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Not necessarily true. The key to a successful serial novel is a lot of self-promotion. Reader word does the rest.

There are some publishers that specialise in pulpy novels, and there's a few places that do serials. They tend to be pretty small presses with relatively low sales, but it's still more money than you'd make uploading it yourself. It's also likely to attract more readers that way.

(the only one off the top of my head is Red Penny Papers, but they wouldn't take someting as long as your project - I know there's others out there, though)

The key to a successful serial novel is a lot of self-promotion. Reader word does the rest.

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It's a nice idea, but it's a hell of a lot of self-promotion if you're starting from scratch (and difficult, too, if you don't want to spam the hell out of people). Reader word doesn't start doing much of anything until you're already getting thousands of hits, in my experience. Most readers will read, enjoy, and promptly move on to the next thing without telling a soul; only a small percentage will actually pimp your work for you. The more people reading it already, the faster it'll spread, but if you're only got double figures don't expect them to do the hard graft for you.

The only serialized novel that I know of that got published (by St. Martin's Press) is John Dies at the End.

Neil Campbell said:

Do your own promotion, you would have to do that anyway.

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No you wouldn't.

ichMael said:

I copyrighted a novel in January 2010, but so far I haven't found an agent or publisher willing to handle it.

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First -- it's a rookie mistake to copyright a work. Under US law it's under copyright protection without being officially registered with the US copyright office.

Second--if you've been shopping this only since January, then you're giving up too soon. A year may seem like a long time, but it isn't in publishing.

It took me two years to sell my first novel and that was when the genre was considered dead/sewn up by other writers who dominated it. Each time it came back I'd do a rewrite. If an editor bothered to put in a comment, I paid attention.

The best rejection I ever got was "You're a good writer, but this is unpublishable." It made me so mad I rewrote the whole book, AGAIN, and sent it out to the biggest house on Publisher's Row.

It sold. Decent advance, multi-book contract, professional validation, and a chance to go to the cool parties.

So don't give up at this point. You're only getting started.


You have zombies, which (I don't know why) are hot right now.

Pulp is good. A rewrite tweaking could slip it sideways into steampunk, which is red hot right now.

You may want another title. It looks like you're after a rift on The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, but Kim Harrison has the movie title hijacking going with her series. Something shorter and snappier to fit on the cover.

I strongly suggest you ask around AW for a beta reader and/or post the first 5 pages in the Share Your Work forum and get some feedback. Had AW been available back in the day it might have shortened my road to publication.

It takes guts to do that, but the feedback you get will be the same you'd get from an editor--if she had the time to give it.

Agents and editors reject manuscripts for any number of reasons, many of which are fixable if only the writer knows there's a problem.

I'm thinking of serializing part of it on the internet (snip) hope that someone in publishing likes it enough to take on the entire novel as a project. (snip) I was wondering about the downside

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The downside is that will absolutely kill it. No publisher or agent wants a book where the 1st publication rights have been given away by the writer.

They don't have time to troll the Net looking for new writers or to answer any "look at my stuff" emails. I automatically delete those.

The writers who get published don't give up. My book sold right off a slush pile. They want to find fresh new voices, but you have to keep sending out work.

As Rachel Caine once said "Posting your work on the Net, hoping an editor will spot it, is like tacking a job resume up on your front door hoping your future boss will walk by and read it."

Ain't gonna happen. Don't bother with "display" websites, either. Waste of money & time.

if Book One became popular through web exposure, that might be incentive to print the rest of the story.

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I know you've heard stories of a few new writers doing this and making a big sale down the road. They are the lottery winners.

You will not have heard the far, far greater majority of new writers who did this and absolutely nothing came of it.

The success stories keep us fueled and enthusiastic, but assume they are aberrations who made a sale through a set of circumstances unavailable to you. Assume an epic fail for yourself.

I know Cory Doctorow posted a novel online and set up a donation link. When the money hit a certain level, he'd post another chapter. Later he sold the book.

BUT--he's a well-known writer with a lot of fans. It worked for him.

I happen to think he's a complete wanking idiot, but that's just me. I think that because I know danged well I could try the same thing and the project would crash and burn. Even long established mid-list writers don't have enough audience to support such a venture--so what chance does a new, unknown have? Zip.

I know that a publisher might not like the idea of the thing having been on the internet

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Seriously, they will hate it and toss it into the "out" box. As an editor, that's what I would do.

Before you jump the shark and post your work, get some feedback. Do a rewrite, then shop it again. Rinse, repeat, and be writing another book so your head doesn't explode.

Good luck!

Doing a serial can be a lot of fun - you just have to recognise it's limitations along with its possibilities. For example, I'm also doing the prep work for a podiobook version of my serial to expand the audience.

It's probably not going to earn you an advance, and the people who get published are the exception, not the rule (though the more exceptions there are...), depending on what you do with it, it's quite possible to lose money on it, rather than make money.

However, with all that being said...there's something so incalculably wonderful about knowing you are a) making grown-ups cry, b) making people plan your death (oh, I have had some wonderfully inventive death threats - all jokes of course, c) watching people try and work out what's going to happen and be either waaaaay off or creepily accurate, both which speaks to your ability as a writer and the calibre of your audience.

It can be really rewarding, it just depends what you want to do with your work.

You have zombies, which (I don't know why) are hot right now.

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Because it's zombies!

I've read this thread with interest, because this is what I am doing on my writing blog. Sorta. Mostly it started because I'm conducting an experiment of writing and editing out of order. But really, it started before that when I realized there are big publisher books and there other books. My series/multiverse is not big publisher compatible. But I still want to write them.

After I am done with the entire series (approx. 7 books), I fully intend on self-publishing them as ebooks through a self-publishing service. My question is, I was playing with an idea that if this ebook series were successful enough to warrant a print version, do you think self-published ebook success carries any weight with small press? Or do you think it is better to stick to self-publishing all the way?

Thanks,
Jodi

Another rookie mistake is thinking a small press will be easier to crack than a large house. They have higher overheads, lower profits, and have to be doubly picky about what they publish.

Once a book is on the web in whatever form: e-book, POD, audiobook, whatever, its first publication rights are GONE.

Publishers large or small, like Victorians of old, only want virgin books.

If you go against all the odds and sell 5K copies in a short space of time and become the talk of the Internet, etc. Then someone might pay attention to your writing.

But they will want a NEW unpublished book, not a reprint.

Go ahead and experiment, but do it with the full understanding that no publisher want a reprint in today's tight and uncertain market. Once you start selling that e-book, it's dead to them.



I will never recommend self-publishing to a new writer.

Mid-listers like me are having a tough time selling our books that are in the stores, so a new writer with a self-pub title doesn't have much of a chance. Most self-pubs sell 5-10 copies to family and friends, maybe 75 if the writer busts arse promoting and is really good at the writing.

However hard it is, it is still better to sub to a paying market and get some money and build up an audience first.

Thank you for the advice. I only recently began to reseach small press, and your reply gave me a place to start. I am considering them in the future, on different books.

Gillhoughly said:

However hard it is, it is still better to sub to a paying market and get some money and build up an audience first.

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An important reason behind my decision is a simple one. I've studied the big publishing houses enough over the last ten years to know when something of mine isn't something they want. These books are shorter than normal and are part of a larger series set in a multiverse with other series. I'm at the point and age in my life where I don't want those houses to decide for me whether or not something is worth writing. I also believe in sharing my writing processes, experiments, and my writings. While I do not expect a large audience, I do like to plan ahead for that possibility.

I might consider querying the large publishing houses. But first I have to study them more and the novels they publish. Then I have to use that information to create a suitable standalone that I am passionate about and know will fit with them. But I doubt they'd allow me to continue writing on and sharing these books they wouldn't want, so querying them comes after that. I'll have to look into small press and see if they'd feel the same way.

Thanks again and I appreciate your concern. It is refreshing to see someone care that much. That is why this is a very nice forum.

Jodi

ios said:

I'm at the point and age in my life

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As I've said many times before, age is one thing that is irrelevant to editors. If one is 10 or 100, they don't care--I certainly don't. A writer's sales are based on the writing. Period.

where I don't want those houses to decide for me whether or not something is worth writing.

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Newsflash--they don't ever decide for YOU if something is worth writing--that's a writer's choice.

Publishers only ever decide if the product submitted is worth money to them. All they want is something they can profit on. It's simple business.

Peter Blatty's book about a demon possessed girl got rejected up in the double digits, but The Exorcist finally sold. His previous titles included "John Goldfarb, Please Come Home" both are worlds apart, but he sold both.

Also, a writer can be absolutely bloody awful and still make a sale. Meyer and Dan Brown come to mind. They're terrible writers, but still somehow sell. Life ain't fair. (shrugs)

While I do not expect a large audience, I do like to plan ahead for that possibility.

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Cart in front of the horse time. Few self-published writers ever build up any audience, and then it's usually for non-fiction. Dr. Phil comes to mind. His Mars/Venus book started out as a guide for couples therapy.

Many will point out Chris Paolini as a great example of a self-pubber who made it, but ignore the fact that a pro-pubbed author gave him the introduction to a publishing house. Had that author taken his kid to the zoo instead of a bookstore that day (when Paolini was doing a signing) no one would have ever heard of Eragon.

For every Paolini, there are hundreds of thousands who self-pub and perish in obscurity. His is about the only success story in the last 10 years that I can recall offhand. There are others, and they keep hopes high, but I wouldn't take them as an example to follow.

I might consider querying the large publishing houses. But first I have to study them more and the novels they publish.

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Study away, but the market is too fluid. By the time you think your research is topping out, something new will happen and flip things. I've seen other writers saying "I have to research first!" I've said it, too. While I was busy researching, things switched right under me.

I was using "research" as an excuse to not write. If my stuff didn't sell it was because I didn't research enough! As Nero Wolfe says, "Phooey!" I had to call shenanigans on myself and get back to work.

You'll be better invested in honing your craft. When I started out there was no study involved. I had an "unpublishable" book to sell and was not going to take no for an answer. It was not something anyone wanted, being in a genre I was told was full up and dead, and being a cross-genre to boot. No one had ever published anything like it before so no one was going to take a chance on it.

It did sell, not because I studied the houses, but because each time it came back with a rejection I'd do a rewrite to make it better. I got feedback and rewrote again and again. And again. When the writing reached the point where my clumsy first draft was to a polished professional level, it sold.

Then I have to use that information to create a suitable standalone that I am passionate about and know will fit with them.

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Career writers do that every day and they don't over-think it. They write. The just DO. I've seen Bob Asprin, feet up, a beer in hand, toss one story idea after another out at neos like confetti, some good, some terrible, but in the right hands any idea can be gold. When I think I'm blocked for a commercial idea I remember him and bull forward.

I don't stop to think if the publisher might like it--I focus on whether *I* will like it. I wrote something I wanted to read and wasn't getting. That worked on my first "unpublishable" novel. It still does. White what you're passionate about, write well, and it will sell.

It does sound like you're edging into the "write to a trend" territory, which is another rookie mistake. By the time your research is done, the trend is dead. I've signed a deal for a popular trend, but have no idea if it will still be hot by the time the books hit the shelves.

But that's okay--I'm getting paid regardless of that possibility!

But I doubt they'd allow me to continue writing on and sharing these books they wouldn't want,

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Honestly, they don't control what you want to write--they don't care what you do in your free time. All they care about is any book you've contracted to write for them. It's business, and that's all. Turn it on on time and collect a check, rinse, repeat. Mid-listers do it every day.

so querying them comes after that.

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Which is sensible. Hopefully the sales of a first book are such that they may want to see what else you have. You should have an agent by then and be on your way.

I'll have to look into small press and see if they'd feel the same way.

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And again, their only concern is, "Can we make money from this?" It's all about the business. Whatever the size of the press, if they think they can't make money, they will give it a pass.

Thanks again and I appreciate your concern. It is refreshing to see someone care that much. That is why this is a very nice forum.

Jodi

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I think it's the best, too.

And here's a quote that I see as applicable to you:

If we listened to our intellect, we'd never have a love affair. We'd never have a friendship. We'd never go into business, because we'd be cynical. Well, that's nonsense. You've got to jump off cliffs all the time and build your wings on the way down. Ray Bradbury

Don't think, don't research. DO.

Go jump. Now.

If you go against all the odds and sell 5K copies in a short space of time and become the talk of the Internet, etc. Then someone might pay attention to your writing.

But they will want a NEW unpublished book, not a reprint.

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Er... no. Day by Day Armageddon by J.L Bourne was initially serialized and picked up by a small press before it got picked up by Pocket Books. John Dies at the End was initially serialized and picked up by a small press before it, too, was picked up by Saint Martin's. Our own fellow Rhiannon Frater first serialized her work online and independently-published it before it was picked up by TOR. None of their books were 'virgin' by any degree, but yet they got picked up...

KodyBoye, some writers have had their work published after online serialisation: but most writers who try this route DON'T, and I think it would be wrong of us to imply otherwise.

I notice that all three examples that you cite took the route of internet serialisation >>> small press/self-published >>> big press. Do you know how many copies they sold via that small press publication? Because if those editions sold in great numbers which led to the larger presses becoming interested you've just proved Gill's point, haven't you?

Thank you, Old Hack.

It is a sad truth, but for each success story of the self-pubber who made it there are thousands of epic fails.

You only hear about the RARE exceptions Kody, never the failures. What writer is going to admit they serialized their awesome novel and had zero hits on the web counter?

Trust me--if that brilliant idea ever REALLY worked you'd hear about thousands of writers getting picked up for bigger things, not just 3 or 4.

Consider them the lottery winners.

The rest of us go to work.

Check the Sandbox. That's a good place to try out underdeveloped ideas.