Protagonists: Everyman vs Badass

efreysson · Dec 27, 2011

Which one do you prefer as a protagonist?

My first fantasy novel was recently published to a very positive reception, and one of the things readers are praising is the main character. And while he can certainly fight and makes it out of many a dangerous situation purely on his wits and strength, he is in all his reactions and emotions a normal person. One reader said that one can very easily place oneself in his shoes, and that makes him endearing.

But the next, semi-finished, novel is about a supporting character from the first book and he's much more of a gritty, badass action-hero. He does have depth and emotions, he's far from invincible and the story is actually about him running afoul of something far bigger and scarier than he's used to dealing with. Still, he is much more experienced and confident than the previous main character, spews angry one-liners at enemies during times of danger and readily walks into hostile situations, partly because he has resigned himself to a violent life that will end violently.

Worrying about this got me thinking; Which do people generally find more engaging, an everyman they can readily understand and sympathize with, or a badass they can admire and enjoy as a hero fantasy? I am honestly torn between the two, but it has me worrying a bit about the follow-up not being as good.

Buffysquirrel · Dec 27, 2011

Inevitably, some people will be disappointed if the main character from the previous book is not the main character in the new book. But I think you're setting up a false dichotomy. Readers like characters they can engage with, who can be anyone at all.

LOG · Dec 27, 2011

What Buffysquirrel said.

Dagrami · Dec 27, 2011

I think both can certainly work. Just as long as the new MC isn't some sort of ridiculous superhuman. I've read books before when a new character becomes a POV and is described as being simply amazing. It's really jarring, especially in comparison to the previous character. Fight the temptation to make your bad-ass character excel at everything, even if you think you're giving him some drawbacks!

Kweei · Dec 27, 2011

efreysson said:
Which one do you prefer as a protagonist?

My first fantasy novel was recently published to a very positive reception, and one of the things readers are praising is the main character. And while he can certainly fight and makes it out of many a dangerous situation purely on his wits and strength, he is in all his reactions and emotions a normal person. One reader said that one can very easily place oneself in his shoes, and that makes him endearing.

But the next, semi-finished, novel is about a supporting character from the first book and he's much more of a gritty, badass action-hero. He does have depth and emotions, he's far from invincible and the story is actually about him running afoul of something far bigger and scarier than he's used to dealing with. Still, he is much more experienced and confident than the previous main character, spews angry one-liners at enemies during times of danger and readily walks into hostile situations, partly because he has resigned himself to a violent life that will end violently.

Worrying about this got me thinking; Which do people generally find more engaging, an everyman they can readily understand and sympathize with, or a badass they can admire and enjoy as a hero fantasy? I am honestly torn between the two, but it has me worrying a bit about the follow-up not being as good.

For me, it's whatever works for the story. I may adore an everyman in one story and a badass in another

MJNL · Dec 27, 2011

I'll ditto Buffysquirrel as well.

Ian Isaro · Dec 27, 2011

I'm opposed to the first option in most cases. Characters that are normal human beings are fine, but I hate reading fiction where I feel like the protagonist is generic to try to "identify with readers." I do not read fiction to read about people like me but with swords.

None of this has much relevance to if the character is a badass and either way you should have a real character. Just posting to say that not everyone wants a "relateable" protagonist. So write what works best for the story.

CrastersBabies · Dec 27, 2011

efreysson said:
Worrying about this got me thinking; Which do people generally find more engaging, an everyman they can readily understand and sympathize with, or a badass they can admire and enjoy as a hero fantasy? I am honestly torn between the two, but it has me worrying a bit about the follow-up not being as good.

Well, your post got me thinking. This won't be helpful, but I like the sound of both. I like the everyman, but I also like a good badass who can create more trouble for himself than a bear in a bee farm.

I like the way you described your badass. As long as he's not over-the-top (caricature) and you bring him down to moments of humanity, that's fine with me. I think of badasses that work and I think of Indiana Jones, Captain Mal from Firefly, Ironman. The flaws are there. The humanity is there.

Honestly? You seem to give your every"men" the qualities they deserve and your badass sounds pretty cool as well. I really don't see a problem.

bearilou · Dec 28, 2011

efreysson said:
Which do people generally find more engaging, an everyman they can readily understand and sympathize with, or a badass they can admire and enjoy as a hero fantasy? I am honestly torn between the two, but it has me worrying a bit about the follow-up not being as good.

Yes!

...meaning I happen to like both. The type of hero determines the tone of the book and I can enjoy either one.

Saint09 · Jan 1, 2012

It's like a good ole action RPG (Borderlands, Elder Scrolls, etc)...as long as the danger scales to the talent, it's almost a wash. If the amazing superhero dude is so super, obviously he has to go up against things that are just as, if not more so, super than he is. Same in every comic book movie. And the everyday man...well, he obviously can't go up against the same superpowered dangers.

I like both. 100% depends on the story and what mood I'm in. Sometimes I want to root for the underdog who just finds ways to win despite any lack of ability (Tim Tebow?). Sometimes I want to sit back and watch a superhero smash through danger like swatting flies (Drew Brees?).

Either can work. I'd worry more about switching MC's from book one to book two. Peter V. Brett did that for "Desert Spear", and because of that I haven't bothered to buy it...even though I loved "The Warded Man". If you read the reviews, you'll find that was a common gripe with that series.

John R. Gambit · Jan 1, 2012

I don't think there is a dominant preference. Personally, I like my heroes with vulnerabilities. Whatever it takes to make them relatable. However, I've noticed there is plenty of popularity in the super duper characters I find boring and one-dimensional. The only challenge you may face pulling this transition off is if you're writing the same series with a new MC. I find that jarring and you might lose some readers doing it.

ShadowyEclipse · Jan 1, 2012

Take Lan from the Wheel of Time.

He is an effortless, emotionless badass the first time you see him. Though his emotions start to show, his weaknesses as you progress through the books, his endless devotion towards Moriane, and his love for someone else, his recklessness, and his utter disregard for his own safety. The old Lan is still there, but you learned more about him.

If you are going to make him a badass, depending on the point of view or character, make him seem invincible, as if he could rip the throat out of every man he comes by and juggle their intestines, but leave hints of emotion, of a human nature, and slowly progress him, so he is still the same at the beginning, but the reader has a lot more understanding.

Now, on the switching problem, Go with your gut. Who deserves the spotlight in this book?

efreysson · Jan 2, 2012

Saint09 said:
It's like a good ole action RPG (Borderlands, Elder Scrolls, etc)...as long as the danger scales to the talent, it's almost a wash. If the amazing superhero dude is so super, obviously he has to go up against things that are just as, if not more so, super than he is. Same in every comic book movie. And the everyday man...well, he obviously can't go up against the same superpowered dangers.

Well, it isn't that the original character is weak. He's an "everyman" in his reactions and attitudes. The second character is far more hardened and cool-headed in danger and actively seeks out trouble. That's the main difference.

Either can work. I'd worry more about switching MC's from book one to book two. Peter V. Brett did that for "Desert Spear", and because of that I haven't bothered to buy it...even though I loved "The Warded Man". If you read the reviews, you'll find that was a common gripe with that series.

John R. Gambit said:
The only challenge you may face pulling this transition off is if you're writing the same series with a new MC. I find that jarring and you might lose some readers doing it.

ShadowyEclipse said:
Now, on the switching problem, Go with your gut. Who deserves the spotlight in this book?

That's another concern of mine. But it isn't about deserving the spotlight. I'm writing mostly independent stories that just take place in the same setting. The first book ends with the protagonist riding off into the sunset as it were, and the second is focused around the new protagonist and tells a story that the original one could never experience because he's left the country.

EDIT: On a funny side note; This is my 666th post.

joeyc · Jan 3, 2012

Go with whatever fits the story.

However, I think the biggest problem comes if you try to set up the character as an everyman and he ends up a badass instead, clearly capable of doing things that the average person can clearly not do.

*coughNathanDrakecough*

Lhipenwhe · Jan 4, 2012

I tend to waffle between liking the two. For me, the best character is releasable in some way while being badass. One example is Musashi Miyamoto from the book Musashi and the Vagabond manga series. I can understand his drive for self-improvement, and the difficulty of finding such a nebulous goal, and he's... well, Musashi. He's synonymous with badass in every piece of media he's in.

AloneBadman · Jan 4, 2012

I've always gone for the every man. The badass still holds a place in my heart for "epic" and often over the top stories where just about everyone else is too cool or unrealistic for the real world.

More than anything, I like the protagonist whose somewhere in between. He's isn't completely unskilled but isn't walking through rooms blowing guys a part with John Woo gun moves (Unless he has some background and degree from John Woo's School of Gunfighting)

I don't know what it is but I like the hero to get their ass kicked a decent number of times. Whether it's legitimate skill difference, an unknown situation, overconfidence, or any number of situations, the hero/oine who can come back the next time with a plan gets my attention the most.

breaking_burgundy · Jan 5, 2012

I tend to prefer either an everyman with a strong character (Renie in Otherland) or a severely flawed badass (can't think of any examples right now). It all depends on the book, though.

GaryLeoTam · Jan 8, 2012

joeyc said:
Go with whatever fits the story.

However, I think the biggest problem comes if you try to set up the character as an everyman and he ends up a badass instead, clearly capable of doing things that the average person can clearly not do.

*coughNathanDrakecough*

I agree with this. Just go with what suits your story best. From a personal perspective though, incompetent MC's can be pretty grating in the "No don't do that why would you aghghghghahjsdkadshk!!!" kinda way.

Protagonists: Everyman vs Badass

efreysson

Closer than ever

Buffysquirrel

LOG

Lagrangian

Dagrami

stuck in the middle

Kweei

Expert Procrastinator

MJNL

A Little Lost

Ian Isaro

New Member

CrastersBabies

Burninator!

bearilou

DenturePunk writer

Saint09

is a very hoopy frood.

John R. Gambit

ShadowyEclipse

SPAAAAAAACE!

efreysson

Closer than ever

joeyc

Lhipenwhe

Moving with my soul, step by step

AloneBadman

What is a man?

breaking_burgundy

GaryLeoTam