Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

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James D. Macdonald

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Lucifiel said:
Since a few months back, I've tried learning British punctuation and spelling(no, not much yet). And now, I'm not sure if I ought to stick to British or change to American. *totally and utterly confused*

Where do you live, and what markets are you considering submitting to?
 

Anya Smith

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Great advice. I don't like books that have no difinite endings.

With my story, I knew the ending before I worked out the middle chapters.
 

Anya Smith

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POV

James D Macdonald said:
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Now comes that point of today's ramblings where I throw out little pearls of wisdom.

Here's one: Say one of your characters is the world's greatest political orator. Do not, under penalty of having your book flung across the room by your readers, attempt to reproduce that orator's speeches. Unless you personally are the world's greatest orator, anything you write will fall short of the reader's expectation. (Same rule applies if your character is the world's greatest poet, greatest preacher, greatest writer, greatest anything. Don't try to provide samples.)

What you do is this: Show people's reactions to the character when he's doing his thing. Don't reproduce the sermon, show the congregation falling to the floor weeping.



I never knew that. Thank you for another lesson.
 

Anya Smith

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POV

James D Macdonald said:
Paul, could you point to such a scene? I think we could get a better handle on the whole question if we had something concrete to analyse.


Hello James,

I also noticed POV switching within chapters and scenes in several novels. For example, Frank Herbert's Dune series. He is one of my favorite authors, but he switches from paragraph to paragraph. I still read and re-read his books.
 

Lucifiel

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James D. Macdonald said:
Where do you live, and what markets are you considering submitting to?

Oh no, in my country Singapore, we use a mixture of both American and British punctuation and spelling when writing. And a pidgin language(most of the time) when speaking. It took me like forever to sort out my bearings and get my English out of the mud!

No idea about markets? I'm soo utterly new to writing, it'd take me at least 20 years to get to ever writing a novel. >>;;

Oh well, it doesn't matter.
 

James D. Macdonald

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If you're planning to submit to American markets, use American punctuation. If you're planning to submit to British markets, use British punctuation. Or -- chose one, and just be consistent.

Work on making your story compelling.
 

Lucifiel

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James D. Macdonald said:
If you're planning to submit to American markets, use American punctuation. If you're planning to submit to British markets, use British punctuation. Or -- chose one, and just be consistent.

Work on making your story compelling.

Good point! :D Hmmm... damn! Either market is good, right? Oh well.

Work on the compelling parts, huh? By jolly, you're right!!!!

*Charges off into the sunset*

Except it's a sunset on a wall. :D
 

James D. Macdonald

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If I recall correctly, the big differences between American and British punctuation are in the use of single and double quotes, and whether the period goes inside or outside of a close quote.

Really, just be consistent. That way search-and-replace will get 'em all when the time comes.

In fiction you can get farther out. The usual genius exception applies. (The farther away from the norm you are, the closer to genius the work must be.)
 

omega12596

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Just curious, but what is wrong with switching POV from paragraph to paragraph? If you're writing in third person, that is.
 

jules

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Anya Smith said:
I also noticed POV switching within chapters and scenes in several novels. For example, Frank Herbert's Dune series. He is one of my favorite authors, but he switches from paragraph to paragraph. I still read and re-read his books.

I think Dune's actually written in omniscient POV; it doesn't ever stay with a single character long enough for you to get settled in and often gives impressions that aren't any single character's:

As the guests waited, their attention torn between the dishes placed before them and the standing Duke...

 

maestrowork

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Agreed. And it's harder for the readers to identify with your characters. It's easier for them to identify with one or two main characters, but if you have multiple POVs, it's tough for the readers to feel for anyone of them (unless they're part of a "group" or something).
 

James D. Macdonald

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Here's some discussion about the author's role in publicizing their own books:

http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/?p=300

Pray notice this reply from a very senior editor:

Look, what I meant is that the one irreducible thing that’s every writer’s job is the writing.

Some writers can contribute to the selling of their work as well, and they want to, and their publishers agree and are willing to support them in this.

Some writers can contribute to the selling of their work, and they want to, and their publishers don’t agree, so nothing happens.

Some writers can contribute to the selling of their work as well, but they _don’t_ want to, but their publishers pressure them into tryng it anyway.

Some writers can contribute to the selling of their work as well, but they don’t want to, and their publishers are fine with this.

Some writers are very ineffective at selling their work, but they want to, and their publisher wants them to and is willing to send them out into the world, where they proceed to do significant damage to their reputations.

Some writers are very ineffective at selling their work, but they want to, but their publishers (thankfully for all involved) manage to talk them out of it.

Some writers are very ineffective at selling their work, and they KNOW this about themselves, but their publishers insist on sending them out into the world, with predictably successful results… Etc., etc., etc. You can work out the remaining permutations as well as I can.

Meanwhile, you challenge me to “Tell that to the writers who get heavy pressure from their publishers to do book tours etc.” Okay. Send me their names and I’ll “tell that to” them.

The plain fact is, some writers have accurate self-knowledge and some don’t. Some publishers have good judgement about who ought to be sent out to publicize their own work and some don’t. Everybody’s an idiot a good part of the time. There’s no substitute for using your own judgement. And RWA-style categorical assertions about what authors HAVE TO do or MUST come to terms with are, by and large, wise-guy ********. There are no accurate formulas, and the maps get redrawn every day.

 

ashnistrike

Synopses, again

...And I know this topic has been addressed. My apologies.

I recall your saying, UJ, earlier in the thread, that a synopsis should be about 5000 words and cover all the plot developments and twists including the ending. From this description I started a synopsis with about one paragraph summarizing each scene of my novel. I was even putting in a couple of direct quotes here and there, to get across a little of the voice (which is fairly snarky).

Then I bumped into the blog for "Miss Snark, the literary agent." I believe I may even have found the link on this board. She has many sample synopses up, all at a much shorter length and lower level of detail than that described above. I'd say about 1000 words and covering the basic shape of the plot with no details except for major turning points.

Which of these is right? Is yours the format for sending to publishers, while hers is for agents? Does it vary wildly by market or genre? For reference, I was planning on submitting to Baen first (along with a few agents).

A second question: while dithering over the synopsis and thereby procrastinating on my novel submission, I managed to make my first short story sale to a good market. In the cover letter, can you mention "in press" publications? Or only things that are actually in print?

Thanks in advance for answers. I am tired of procrastinating and want to get this out.
 

Lucifiel

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James D. Macdonald said:
If I recall correctly, the big differences between American and British punctuation are in the use of single and double quotes, and whether the period goes inside or outside of a close quote.

Yep, not to mention the various spelling issues like ommission of "ou", various phrases/slangs, etc. Bleeahhhh... =P And ya know what? Since it's light years before I ever publish a novel, I think I shall learn the differences slowly. Why rush with every single damn thing and confuse myself?
James D. Macdonald said:
Really, just be consistent. That way search-and-replace will get 'em all when the time comes.

In fiction you can get farther out. The usual genius exception applies. (The farther away from the norm you are, the closer to genius the work must be.)

Farther out? Uhhh... excuse me, what does that phrase mean? (I know what farther means, don't worry) I just assume that it has nothing to do with engineering or finance, right?

*sighs* Genius exception? Ooooh boy.
 

James D. Macdonald

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There isn't a standard for synopses.

The one I use is for the classic three-and-an-outline. About ten pages of outline is what I tend to do.

If I were sending a query letter, I'd more likely send two pages at most.

----

You can absolutely mention forthcoming works in your query letters.
 
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ashnistrike

Re: Synopses, again

MadScientistMatt: The correct format is whatever the person you are sending the synopsis to says is the correct format.

Yes, which is why I looked all over the Baen website for something other than "send us a synopsis." No luck.

UJ: There isn't a standard for synopses.

That's what I was afraid of. Okay, I'll try it both ways, and see what looks better. The story is a pain to summarize either way--it's sort of a braid format, with three plot lines that start out near each other, go off in different directions for most of the book, and end up in the same place for the climax with each one being integral to the solution for the rest. That makes 'scene by scene' easiest to write, but not necessarily the most informative to read. Dammit, if it took less than 95,000 words to say coherently, I would have said it in less than 95,000 words the first time.

Thanks for the quick response.
 

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ashnistrike said:
Then I bumped into the blog for "Miss Snark, the literary agent." I believe I may even have found the link on this board. She has many sample synopses up, all at a much shorter length and lower level of detail than that described above. I'd say about 1000 words and covering the basic shape of the plot with no details except for major turning points.

Remember that Miss Snark set the 1000 word limit in part because she didn't want the hassle of dealing with longer synopses in the context of her blog. None of these were going to result in business for her agency and she was doing this out of altruistic motives ot benefit the writing community, if I recall correctly. So it makes perfect sense to me for her to set limits to what she could deal with in the time alloted for this project.
 

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Wow, I'm through (yes, all 5000 posts). Thank you so much for this thread, so amazing all the help and inspiration I found here!
smile.gif
 
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