Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Status
Not open for further replies.

Euan Harvey

Re: ...

This thing is published? <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>That was a published work? [jaw drop] It
<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->
It's one of the author's earlier books. The sequel is much better, and his Honor Harrington books are great -- and extremely successful.

Oath of Swords gets much better after the first couple of chapters, so good, in fact, that an editor paid good money for it. And that's why books need to be considered as wholes, and not as agglomerations
 

Crusader

Re: Catching Up Part II

[thinking too hard]

It would be nice if i could simply say "i agree with all sides of the fence" and leave it at that. But that isn't very helpful... so let's see.

novelator said:
All the suggestions, and most were very good, prove only that we are all individual writers with an independent approach to our work. There are innumerable ways to word sentences and paragraphs, beginnings and endings, and tell our stories, no one way right or wrong, just different.

Well, yes. But, no.

i might compare it to the example someone mentioned of house-building. There's a certain base standard that houses are designed to meet--four walls, a roof, and a door. Then a notch above that--water, sewer, wiring. Then a notch above that--air conditioning (heating and cooling), appliances.

In that light, no matter how unique the end result may be, the actual product is built up to meet certain standards along a range of progression from start to finish. Miss or mangle a stage--"Doors are optional, aren't they?"--and you have something that will strike a discerning mind as incomplete.

So while i definitely agree that there are a myriad of ways to do anything, including novel-writing, there are actually a finite number of ways to put together something that will appeal to the standards of a majority of knowledgeable readers as "well constructed".

(Which is itself a standard, obviously, and begs the question: to whom are we writing? But i digress...)

Another analogy: English speakers across the world communicate by adhering broadly to a common standard of the language. Then splinter off into cultural and geographic groups, and you see uniqueness has molded the language with slang, new words, new noun-verb agreements, and so on. Yet, the main standard, English, doesn't go anywhere; it's still the bedrock, allowing disparately unique English speakers to still get a message across to each other.

So, the concept here is likewise akin to a subtle struggle between conforming just enough to guidelines so that we don't build something halfway daft, yet breaking conformity just enough to make the work in our own voice.

And then... it all skews depending on the "whom" we're addressing. If writing a children's book, i'm going to use a different standard for building it than i would with an adult techno-thriller. If building a house for a party-animal, the layout will be different than for an octogenerian convalescent. And a speech from a Jamaican to Jamaicans uses a different form of English than an Australian wuld use to Australians.

i guess the point is just that there are standards. Underneath all the differences and uniqueness, there are still standards of writing, building, and language, keeping everything close enough so that a majority can participate.

Therefore, one quick way to find out what standards are in the reader's mind, is to let a few readers tell you. Then you can decide for yourself how to mold your vision, how to conform just enough while breaking away just enough at the same time. Think of it as "knowing your audience", if that's more palatable.

[still thinking] So, the wise author would be able to know when suggested changes amount to nothing ("i want you to build your house without any carpeting") versus when they are meaningful ("Um, you sort of forgot to add bathrooms, man.") To know genuine improvement ("When you write your speech to the Jamaican Cultural Society, be sure to mention X Y and Z") versus just a difference of opinion ("I say potatoe, you say potato, but i'm right!")

[/ramble off]
 

maestrowork

Re: Catching Up Part II

I'm going to go ahead and dissect this work:



Sam and I are sitting on a mostly deserted beach on Lake Michigan a little north of the Drake Hotel in Chicago.

Opening line. We're introduced to someone named Sam and the narrator. They're having a vacation/get-away. Not sure what time it is, but since it's a deserted beach, it may be chilly out there?

The Drake is filled with treasured memories for both of us, and we had dinner at our favorite table there earlier.

Sam and the narrator has a history, and maybe a romantic one.

I need to be with Sam tonight, because it’s one year since, well, everything happened that shouldn’t have happened -- it’s one year since Danny died.

Okay, here's a twist. Just as we thought Sam might be a lover, there's a mention of Danny, who died a year ago. Who is Danny? Is he a child? Or an ex-lover? Brother? It wouldn't be a parent, since the narrator would be saying "my father."

“This is the spot where I met Danny, Sam. In May, six years ago,” I say.

OK, now we're getting some history. But the dialogue feels somewhat stilted and info dumping. I can only assume, at this point, the narrator is a woman. However, it could be a gay story.

Sam is a good listener who holds eye contact beautifully and is almost always interested in what I have to say, even when I’m being a bore, like now.

Characterization of narrator: self-deprecating -- "I'm being a bore."

We’ve been best friends since I was two, maybe even before that. Just about everybody calls us “the cutest couple,” which is a little too saccharine for both of our tastes. But it happens to be true.

OK, perhaps Sam is a long-time best friend. Or maybe more. We still don't know because the "cutest couple" remark is vague. Also, I have a feeling the narrator is female, since no one is going to call two boys "the cutest couple." Still, it's starting to get a bit annoying not knowing the narrator's name or gender.


“Sam, it was freezing that night Danny and I met, and I had a terrible cold. To make it worse, I had been locked out of our apartment by my old boyfriend Chris, that awful beast.”

Some history revealed. However, the dialogue sounds very stilted and info dumping. I wonder, if Sam has been her best friend for so long, wouldn't he already know it all? Why would she say something like "my old boyfriend Chris"? Certainly Sam would know who Chris is.


“That despicable brute, that creep,” Sam contributes. “I never liked Chris. Can you tell?”

Ah, so Sam does know Chris. That makes the previous line even worse. At least we get to know the narrator has had a bad relationship. Some characterization: Sam seems protective. But as a best friend, wouldn't Sam have already told the narrator what a creep Chris was? Why would he asks him/her "Can you tell?"


“So this nice guy, Danny, comes jogging by and he asks if I’m all right. I’m coughing and crying and a total mess. And I say, ‘Do I look like I’m all right? Mind your own blanking business. You’re not going to pick me up, if that’s what you’re thinking. Scram!” I snorted a laugh Sam’s way.

She seems awfully rude and judgemental. If I were crying and someone asked me if I were okay, I wouldn't think I'd be so rude. Again, this feels stilted and cliche to me. But it characterizes the narrator as being disturbed (then) and reflective (now): "So this nice guy..." Also, she avoids talking about Chris again with Sam.


“That’s where I got my nickname, ‘Scram.’ Anyway, Danny came back on the second half of his run. He said he could hear me coughing for two miles down the beach. He brought me coffee, Sam. He ran up the beach with a hot cup of coffee for a complete stranger.”

While it's still info dump here, I feel it could be that she's reminiscing. Certainly Sam must know her nickname is "Scran" and possibly the story behind it. Again, I'm basing this on the fact that Sam and the narrator have been friends forever...


“Yes, but a beautiful stranger, you have to admit.”

So... what is the relationship between Sam and the narrator? This feels either like a flirt or a confirmation. It depends on the relationship between them... still not sure.

I stopped talking, and Sam hugged me and said, “You’ve been through so much. It’s awful and it’s unfair. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make it all better for you.”

Ugh! A big BOO BOO. The verb tense suddenly changes here. It was told in present tense, and suddenly it's past tense. What? Anyway, again, the dialogue sounds so... cliche.

I pulled out a folded, wrinkled envelope from the pocket of my jeans. “Danny left this for me. In Hawaii. One year ago today.”

Ah, a letter. One year ago today -- that's when Danny died. So this is the meat... I'm sensing something sad and sweet...

“Go ahead, Jennifer. Let it out. I want to hear everything tonight.”

So the narrator is a woman, and her name is Jennifer. Finally! Sam sounds condescending here. I know he's trying to be supportive... anyway.


I opened the letter and began to read. I was already starting to choke up.

I think it's unnecessary sentiment here. We know it's going to be sad... no need to set us up...


Dear, wonderful, gorgeous Jennifer…

Sure...

You’re the writer, not me, but I had to try to put down some of my feelings about your incredible news. I always thought that you couldn’t possibly make me any happier, but I was wrong.

Why are protagonists some often writers? Anyway, okay, some questions: What incredible news? Ah, I'm sure it has to do with a child! On his death bed she told him she was having his child. Wanna bet?


Jen, I’m flying so high right now I can’t believe what I’m feeling. I am, without a doubt, the luckiest man in the world. I married the best woman, and now I’m going to have the best baby with her.

I knew it.

How could I not be a pretty good dad, with all that going for me? I will be. I promise.

Okay, this is supposed to hit you with sadness. The guy just finds out he's going to be a dad, but he dies that day. He seems like a great husband and would-be father. This is definitely a romance...

I love you even more today than I did yesterday, and you wouldn’t believe how much I loved you yesterday.

I love you, and our little “peanut.”…

Danny.


Yep, a romance with a tragic beginning...

Tears started to roll down my cheeks. “I’m such a big baby,” I said. “I’m pathetic.”

Characterization: she's neurotic! It's the one-year anniversary of her husband's death. Of course she should be crying. Why say things like that? What is going on with her? Especially in front of her best friend... also what happens to the baby?

“No, you’re one of the strongest women I know. You’ve lost so much, and you’re still fighting.”

I'm sensing something worse than just Danny's death....


“Yeah, but I’m losing the battle. I’m losing. I’m losing real bad, Sam.”

Ah! Losing the battle... it could be many things. She's dying... or her baby is dying... or she's losing her baby somehow.... suspense! We'll have to turn the page to find out.

Then Sam pulled me close and hugged me, and for the moment at least, it was all better -- just like always.

Still not sure what is between Sam and Jennifer. Can a man and a woman really can be friends for all their lives and not have any romantic tension between them. I can't feel any sexual or romantic tension between them at this point. Is Sam gay? But it seems like Jennifer always feel safe with Sam and he's the only person she wants to be with on this day...

OK, there's suspense: What happened? What about the baby? What battle she's losing? I guess if you're interested enough with these characters, you would want to turn the page and find out.

So far it feels a little sappy for me right off the bat. It probably would appeal to women who love a tragic romance. A man would probably stay away, go to the next aisle and grab a Michael Crichton book.
 

detante

Re: Catching Up Part II

We now have opening scenes from Victoria Holt and James Patterson that I suspect were posted so we could play Site link removed per request of other site's Webmaster. I feel a twinge of guilt since my post kicked off the festivities. I admit I knew openings are not Weber’s strong suit. In my defense, there are several reasons I chose Oath of Swords. First and foremost, I knew I could cut and paste from the Baen Library. (I'm lazy.) Also, I felt OoS was obscure enough that it would not be immediately recognized. Finally, I picked this one because it is one of his earlier works. It was published because the editor believed in the story, not because there were legions of Weber fans clamoring for anything with his name on the cover.

Jen
 
Last edited by a moderator:

maestrowork

Re: ...

Nope, my intention is definitely not to play [Redacted--JDM]. Why would you think that?

I'm replying to Uncle Jim's question: What if we post something, either published or unpublished, and see if we could crit the same way without knowing who the author is?

There's no intentional slight aiming at Patterson or anyone. I wasn't going to name him (not everyone has read his book). I think people are missing the point here, so READILY try to guess/announce who the author is (the kid who always raises his hand and yells, "Pick me! Pick me! I know the answer"). The exercise here is not to "guess the author and work."
 
Last edited by a moderator:

detante

Nope, my intention is definitely not to play [Redacted--JDM]. Why would you think that?

I do not want to put words in anyone’s mouth, but I detect a snarky undertone to comments such as

i would like to see what critiques come of this 'first page'. Should be interesting; is it a page-turner? Is it well-crafted? (All text, phrasing, and punctuation are verbatim.)

and

(Yes, you noticed the tense change, too? They're not typos. They're in the actual texts)

Both comments seem to pass judgment as they warn the reader that the poster knew the text they were posting was not up to par. Perhaps I am wrong. If so, I apologize.

Jen
 
Last edited by a moderator:

maestrowork

Re: Catching Up Part II

The first comment wasn't mine.

As for the second. It's not snarky. I didn't pick out the piece because I could laugh at the tense change (which, by the way, is an oversight on both the author's and the editor's part -- that it would go to print as is). I didn't notice the tense change AFTER I typed it and posted it. But it is a glaring mistake that it should be noted. There's a lesson to be learned here: even seasoned authors and editors made mistakes.

I mean, back to the original hypothesis: if you didn't know it was Patterson's, if it were MY piece, what would you say about it? (BTW, I did post my own WIP on SYW for crit/ridicule, so I am not excused from this line-by-line analysis, good or bad).

I still think you're missing the point, thinking that we're here to "bash the author." I had, actually, no intention of naming the author at all or telling you if the work was published or not. The fact that you knew it was Patterson and you called it out didn't make it an "author bashing." We are here to learn about the process, and I still think Uncle Jim's line-by-line analysis is a great tool for both writers AND readers. I'm just trying to illustrate a point here.

As you can see, I pointed out both good and bad parts (and I'm judging it from a reader's prospective, not a writer's, for this exercise) and simply tried to present what works and what doesn't for ME.

That goes to prove my hypothesis: if it were an unknown, unpublished work, we are so quick to say "it's crap, and here's what's wrong with it." But if it's a published work by a known author, suddenly someone is going to come out and say, "You're author bashing."
 

Crusader

@detante:

Oath of Swords struck me as unpublished fan fiction, and i was very surprised to find out otherwise, so it would be difficult to argue that i critiqued it for the sake of slamming a published author.

The piece maestrowork posted felt to me like a badly-written work... so bad that i couldn't bring myself to critique it because i couldn't find enough redeeming material thereof. So until you identified it as published, i had no idea, and hence i'm just as surprised as with the previous piece. Therefore, it's again a little hard to argue that my goal was mere spite towards a published author.

With regard to what i posted... i really wish the author hadn't been "outed" so soon, because so far only one person has offered a critique.

Now that the milk is spilt, however, i'll provide the context: Victoria Holt's The India Fan is a novel that has resided on my bookcase for more than ten years. i happened to glance at it the other day, and took it down to read for the first time in about ten years, recalling that while it was dreary dull to me in many places, certain elements were entertaining enough to make me read it way-back-when.

Unfortunately, i was absolutely shocked at how much the passage of time had further enfeebled the novel in my eyes. i couldn't bring myself to go further than four pages into it, the writing just seemed dreadful. It has been sitting on the desk untouched for days, and was thus right at hand when someone suggested "let's post pieces 'anonymously' and crit them".

So i typed out and posted the first page. And in reviewing the post, i felt it necessary to add a disclaimer that the wording and phrasing and such were verbatim--strictly so that if someone took any issue with comma placement or the like, they wouldn't think it was a typo or revision of mine.

Then, i stated quite clearly that i was curious to see what critiques would arise. Now obviously, as i find the work to be lacking, my opinion was set. But i refrained from saying so, since i didn't want to bias anyone's critique... and so i'm more than a little mystified at how you read a negative tone in my literal questions. Really, i wanted to know: IS the work a page-turner? IS it well-crafted? 'Cos, er, i thought that was the point of the exercise?

While we're on the subject, maestrowork's critique was very enlightening. He (i am guessing he's male?) pointed out things both positive and negative that i hadn't considered, while echoing things i had already seen. i still dislike the first four pages as much as ever, but i can see other angles on maybe why they were done the way they were done.

Overall, i feel i've profited from seeing what someone in a 'blind' test has to say about these pieces. It verifies to me the belief that good writing has nothing to do with the name on the cover or the publishing imprint on the spine, and everything to do with whether the bloody story is actually good in my eyes, or not. i therefore don't see where the accusation of "[Redacted-JDM]" applies...
... though i AM glad you posted that link. i loved the article and i find its principles to be very sound advice.

(By the way, how did you figure out my offering, anyway? Websearch? Good memory? Other?)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

James D Macdonald

A Brief Commercial Announcment

I've got a story in the upcoming anthology <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743498879/ref=nosim/madhousemanor" target="_new">Cosmic Tales: Adventures in Far Futures</a>.

Buy one. Better still, buy a dozen. They make excellent gifts.
 

Gala

Cosmic Writer

Way to go, James!

Speaking of cosmic. A while back I mentioned I use the opening sentence of Grisham's book, which you so artfully dissected here on your thread, as an example of incorrect POV.

I was surprised to see the idea discussed at length. I've seen that before when I mention it live. Didn't expect that here.

Here's what I think of Grisham: I think he's cosmic. He's inspired, gifted, blessed, touched--whatever term suits one's fancy about such things. There's an ingredient, a cosmic blessing, some artists have that cannot be learned or imitated.

Good luck with your Cosmic story, James.
 

Euan Harvey

Re: Cosmic Writer

I agree with you about Grisham -- the first time I read 'the Firm' I ended up staying awake all night so I could finish the book and find out what happened. Another writer who has the same touch (IMHO) is Stephen King. You could dissect (and slam) individual bits pf prose, but when you're reading the book--damn!

[Sigh] I wish I could write that well. :(
 

detante

Re: Catching Up Part II

The first comment wasn't mine.

I never said it was. My post was not a personal attack on you. It was a statement on the general tone the thread had taken.

That goes to prove my hypothesis: if it were an unknown, unpublished work, we are so quick to say "it's crap, and here's what's wrong with it." But if it's a published work by a known author, suddenly someone is going to come out and say, "You're author bashing."

We cannot prove this since no one posted an unpublished work. Both you and Crusader left clues that you were posting published authors, whether you intended to or not.

My hypothesis is there are lots of wrong ways but no right way. Everything can be revised.

I appreciate the analysis you provided on all the posted works. You did point out the good along with the bad. I take you at your word that you were not being snarky. Clearly I am wrong and apologize, again, for misinterpreting your intentions.
 

detante

@Crusader

Once again, I apologize for misinterpreting your intentions.

I'm glad you enjoyed the link. There are dozens of entertaining and insightful articles on theSite link removed per request of other site's Webmaster site that can be applied to any form of storytelling.

I cheated and used a websearch to find the source of your post. I assumed that since the work was not your own chances were good it was a published work.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

maestrowork

Re: Cosmic Writer

That's cool.

I think for the sake of this exercise, we should "forget" whether it's a published or unpublished work and truly just try to analyze it as I did earlier, on the merit of the piece itself, and not because of its published status or, worse, the author.

(However, I WAS astonished when I saw a published work by a famous author would contain such a BIG boo boo on the first few pages. I didn't start out to ridicule Patterson, but after I posted the excerpt, I did do a double take and said, "Wow? How could that be?")

Great authors can do wrong things. For example, some of Stephen King's books are drabs, and while The Firm was so good, Skipping Christmas was actually a bore to me. Sometimes, I do think famous authors get lazy. So I try to look at each work on its own merits, and not because so-and-so wrote it. It doesn't mean Grisham, for example, is a bad writer. He might not be the best stylist in the world, but boy can he tell a good story.

I think that's the point of this exercise, and I'm trying to do it. The next time we post some work, I don't want us to try to guess (or do a web search) who wrote what. That really beats the purpose of this experiment. Also, am I the only one participating?

;)
 

detante

Re: Cosmic Writer

How about this? No peeking and no websearching. And I promise to offer my own analysis, too. ;)

-----------------------​

Preface

The Testimony of Alrak was reportedly written by the last known survivor of a Nesda, a small haven in the foothills of the Frenas Mountains. Nesda's wards were incomplete when the Vex hit. The abhorrent, Mujalabrin, easily slipped into the haven and ravaged its inhabitants.

Mujalabrin took a special interest in Nesda's only champion, Alrak the Bard. Alrak's talent was great, but his will was not. In a desperate attempt to save himself, Alrak offered to immortalize the abhorrent in epic versus. Amused by the idea, Mujalabrin agreed to keep the bard alive until he could write no more.

Scholars estimate it took Alrak 115 years to complete his 125,925 page Testimony. Alrak exhausted his limited supply of ink within the first year of composition. The vast majority of it seems to have been written in blood. After approximately 105 years, The Testimony of Alrak encompassed every scrap of paper in Nesda. Tests confirm that the last 8760 pages were crafted from exquisitely tanned and extravagantly trimmed skin.

The original copy of The Testimony of Alrak resides in a carefully warded vault in the Great Library of Kurth. Abhorrence lore experts have long clamored for access to the Testimony. While Master Tinus agrees that it could provide invaluable information, he refuses to release any portion of the original document. Instead, he has elected to have to have the original copy transcribed to warded vellum, infused with True Wood using ink infused with True Earth. No scribe has been allowed to work on more than 9 non-sequential pages. Despite these precautions, 68 of the 220 scribes working on the Testimony have since gone mad. While incidences of insanity are to be expected when working with abhorrence-related material, experts agree this is a higher percentage than usual.

Further transcriptions were halted after the scribe Paltis created duplicates of his work from memory, using ordinary ink and paper. Paltis made a small fortune when he sold his copies to an amateur collector. Shortly after his purchase, the collector murdered Paltis in the middle of the Bazaar. The collector was in berserk rage, screaming that Paltis was a liar and a thief. It took an arrow to the chest to stop the madman from killing innocent bystanders. A search of the collector's office uncovered 8 blank sheets of paper that radiating a lingering astral aura.

As of this writing, only 1800 of the 125,925 pages of The Testimony of Alrak have been reproduced. Master Tinus has made it clear that no further transcriptions will be created as long as he is in charge of the Library.


Chapter One

I have no fear of the underground. I spent my childhood under the mountains of Kurth. Usually I find comfort beneath the shelter of solid stone. But the halls of Kurth echo with vitality. There is a restless silence about this place. It is not the empty hush of a forgotten tomb. There is a palpable sense of malice lurking in this silence.

I was nine years of age when I first told my father of my wish to search for lost havens. In a futile attempt to dissuade me from that path, he reserved a three-page excerpt of the Testimony of Alrak for my edification. Given the documents reputation, he must have called in more than one favor to obtain it.

As chilling as Alrak's account is, it did not prepare me for my first contact with a living abhorrent. The estimation that this is a young abhorrent only deeps my self-deprecation. I can only assume that every member of the party is now marked.

While I cannot be certain that my own faculties have not been destroyed, it appears my husband's mind is now a devil's playground because of my audacity. I should have taken his council when he suggested we return to town. But my pride was not content to face the condescension of Councilman Stark with the paltry amount of information we had collected. Thanks to me, most party members are severely injured, many are trying to kill one another, and the some are missing. My hubris may well be the destruction of us all.
 

Crusader

Re:

Ok, i read the preface. Before i move on to the first chapter or whatnot, i want to record my reaction...

... i'm intensely amused by this, in a "laughing with you, not at you" sort of way. But since it isn't supposed to be amusing, i feel odd about it.

i guess it's just the way that the preface feels like it would be the crawl text and voiceover narration at the beginning of a barbarian movie. i can just hear James Earl Jones intoning, "The Testimony of Alrak was reportedly written by the last known survivor of a Nesda, a small haven in the foothills of the Frenas Mountains..."

But, aside from making me giggle every five seconds, it feels well written. i'm having intriguing mental images of the people and places described, even despite the bare infodumping taking place.

My earlier comments about "nice story, wonder where it goes next" versus "i wanna fact check this" are applying. It announces itself right off the bat as fantasy, and yet takes its own details seriously, so (despite my mirth) i'm able to suspend my disbelief. i'm intrigued, and i feel like the author has earned enough rope to hang themselves, at least.

It also has a fairly professional feel, nothing like the previous three samples. i'm not conscious yet of any glaring problems in what i've been told. i do question the point of having 220 scribes, when it would probably be easier to just let the experts directly read the darned thing... but the author mollifies me by saying that the scribes went bonkers, which allows me to conjecture that the keeper of the Testament would want to spare the experts from such a fate (experts don't come cheap, last i heard.)

And with that, i continue...
 

Crusader

Re:

Chapter One, here we go...

* * *

I have no fear of the underground. I spent my childhood under the mountains of Kurth. Usually I find comfort beneath the shelter of solid stone. But the halls of Kurth echo with vitality. There is a restless silence about this place. It is not the empty hush of a forgotten tomb. There is a palpable sense of malice lurking in this silence.

-The shift from third to first POV from preface to chapter one feels odd, almost jarring initially.
-The author's style is appealing to me, i like their wording and phrasing.
-The tone sounds like a diary entry. Perhaps this is why i don't personally write in first person or read many first person books; i find it somewhat difficult to transition directly into someone describing things that i am clueless about.
-The description is very very sparing. A lot of gaps to fill: mountains, halls, stone shelter. Just have vague images right now.



I was nine years of age when I first told my father of my wish to search for lost havens. In a futile attempt to dissuade me from that path, he reserved a three-page excerpt of the Testimony of Alrak for my edification. Given the documents reputation, he must have called in more than one favor to obtain it.

-Alarm bells: this document has the power to drive men mad, and the father gave a copy to a child? Eh? A charitable interpretion: this is a wonderchild, or else the documents don't universally have a potent effect. A wary interpretation: the author is trying a fast one.
-Was it an excerpt of the scribed copy, or literally a piece of the real thing? Probably the former, but i wonder.
-Father figure has social and political influence... bigtime.
-Child is an explorer. i like him or her already.
-Child is a bit rebelliious. i really like him or her more.
-Heh, "him or her" bothers me. i want to know that stuff right off the bat so i can hurry up and visualize my hero or heroine already. Like, when movies use voiceover narration, you can tell from the voice that it's a man or women, old or young, solemn or silly, etc.
-Lost havens... are we talking about a Nesda or Nesdas?



As chilling as Alrak's account is, it did not prepare me for my first contact with a living abhorrent. The estimation that this is a young abhorrent only deeps my self-deprecation. I can only assume that every member of the party is now marked.

-Tense weirdness. "As chilling as Alrak's account IS..." looks a tad off, since the prior paragraph was past tense.
-More tense weirdness: we've shifted from a rough present tense of someone rambling about their state of mind, to a past tense about their memories, to a very up-close and personal present tense: "The estimation that this is a young abhorrent only deeps my self-deprecation." Wha? Makes it sound like the abhorrent is a creature standing right in front of the narrator. It's a poor transition.
-Again, i'm feeling like this is a diary entry, and i don't know if it's working for me...



While I cannot be certain that my own faculties have not been destroyed, it appears my husband's mind is now a devil's playground because of my audacity. I should have taken his council when he suggested we return to town. But my pride was not content to face the condescension of Councilman Stark with the paltry amount of information we had collected. Thanks to me, most party members are severely injured, many are trying to kill one another, and the some are missing. My hubris may well be the destruction of us all.

-Whoa, zigzag. i was forming the impression that there was -going- to be an expedition to the "lost havens". Now i find out it already happened? i feel cheated.
-Tense weirdness again. We're back to a more detatched present tense. Ugh.
-So it's a woman. Likely not old, or young since she's an explorer. Maybe mid-twenties or thirties, possibly forties.
-Self-recrimination. Combined with the rebelliousness and curiosity i saw earlier, i'm liking this chick. Wonder if i can get her number... oops, married. [grumble]
-Willfully leading others into a hairy situation, based on pride? Refuses to compromise with her own husband? Meh. i dinna like this chick: i recall that we don't know why she was so drawn to go exploring in the first place, so i can't even cut her some slack for whatever her motivation was. (If it was a rescue mission/save the world thing, no problem. If she's just an obsessed lunatic, problem.)
-Information collection. Mention of authorities who might be displeased. So the expedition may have in part been a scientific endeavour with some kind of serious reward or outcome hanging on the results. Stakes were significant, then; this wasn't an afternoon hiking trip.
-Many party members trying to kill each other: is this an effect of that dratted Testament again? "i TOLD you not to read that!" [grin]


* * *

Okay, so i like it, though i've got serious questions that need to be answered pronto because the rope is starting to tighten on the author's neck. i confidently say that this submission is the first one that feels like published material to me; there are some minor oopsies ("versus" instead of "verses"? "deeps" instead of "deepens"? Strange tense tricks? A child read the Testament?) but it's working so far and looks good. i want more. =)

[postscript] Wow, i haven't rewritten anything. Definitely a good sign for the author, if i can review something without actively rearranging it halfway through...
 

Crusader

Re:

@detante:
Both you and Crusader left clues that you were posting published authors, whether you intended to or not.

Ehh. Since this is a writing board, i do hope you can understand the liberties i now take...

I interpret both you and Crusader to have left clues that you were posting published authors, whether you intended to or not.

Much more palatable, and i would concur with it readily, since i don't happen to agree that i left any clues at all, but i do agree that it could be interpreted that way and that you did intepret it that way.

In any case, thanks for the apologies; your willingness to do that up front, helped me to trust that you were speaking in good faith throughout.

Lastly, i'm surprised you found Victoria Holt's book so easily in a search--and disappointed that you went to do that before even trying to critique it. i feel cheated of seeing your perspective on the piece. =(
 

detante

Re: Cosmic Writer

Preface

I don’t like prefaces. Too often “preface” just a synonym for “info-dump”. But I’ll go with it.

The Testimony of Alrak was reportedly written by the last known survivor of a Nesda, a small haven in the foothills of the Frenas Mountains.

All the names have a foreign sound to them but I don’t recognize the location names. Probably a fictitious setting.

Nesda's wards were incomplete when the Vex hit.

Incomplete wards and vex are magical terms. This is probably a fantasy. Vex has a capital ‘v’. Must be something important.

The abhorrent, Mujalabrin, easily slipped into the haven and ravaged its inhabitants.

What the heck is an abhorrent and how does it ravage?

Mujalabrin took a special interest in Nesda's only champion, Alrak the Bard.

So the abhorrent is not a mindless beast.

Alrak's talent was great, but his will was not.

Sounds like trouble.

In a desperate attempt to save himself, Alrak offered to immortalize the abhorrent in epic versus.

Some champion.

Amused by the idea, Mujalabrin agreed to keep the bard alive until he could write no more.

The abhorrent has an ego and a sense of humor.

Scholars estimate it took Alrak 115 years to complete his 125,925 page Testimony.

That’s quite a long time. Is Alrak a non-human, then?

Alrak exhausted his limited supply of ink within the first year of composition.

Why was the supply limited? Is the haven completely cut off?

The vast majority of it seems to have been written in blood.

Ick. Human blood? His own? Whose blood?

After approximately 105 years, The Testimony of Alrak encompassed every scrap of paper in Nesda.

Why did Nesda have so much paper and so little ink?

Tests confirm that the last 8760 pages were crafted from exquisitely tanned and extravagantly trimmed skin.

Again, ick. Are we to assume it was human skin?

The original copy of The Testimony of Alrak resides in a carefully warded vault in the Great Library of Kurth.

Clues to the greater setting.

Abhorrence lore experts have long clamored for access to the Testimony.

So the testimony is now a historical document.

While Master Tinus agrees that it could provide invaluable information, he refuses to release any portion of the original document.

Who is this Master Tinus and why is he engaging in censorship?

Instead, he has elected to have to have the original copy transcribed to warded vellum, infused with True Wood using ink infused with True Earth.

Why would copies be safer than the original? What the heck is True Wood and True Earth?

No scribe has been allowed to work on more than 9 non-sequential pages.

Seems a bit excessive.

Despite these precautions, 68 of the 220 scribes working on the Testimony have since gone mad.

Is it because the text so gruesome or is there something about the document itself?

While incidences of insanity are to be expected when working with abhorrence-related material, experts agree this is a higher percentage than usual.

So it was expected that some would go crazy. Hope they get hazard pay.

Further transcriptions were halted after the scribe Paltis created duplicates of his work from memory, using ordinary ink and paper.

Why would he do that? ‘Ordinary’ is unnecessary unless it is a clue.

Paltis made a small fortune when he sold his copies to an amateur collector.

Apparently they don’t get enough hazard pay. Or this is just a very valuable item. But who would want to collect such things?

Shortly after his purchase, the collector murdered Paltis in the middle of the Bazaar.

Well that doesn’t seem like a good way to do business.

The collector was in berserk rage, screaming that Paltis was a liar and a thief.

Paltis has already been established as an unsavory sort, so that could be true. Why the berserk rage?

It took an arrow to the chest to stop the madman from killing innocent bystanders.

The collector is now a madman threatening innocent bystanders. Were other means used to subdue him or did they shoot first and ask questions later?

A search of the collector's office uncovered 8 blank sheets of paper that radiating a lingering astral aura.

Presumably the text had an affect on the ‘ordinary’ paper.

As of this writing, only 1800 of the 125,925 pages of The Testimony of Alrak have been reproduced.

That’s not much.

Master Tinus has made it clear that no further transcriptions will be created as long as he is in charge of the Library.

Probably wise, although it could put Master Tinus on someone’s hit list.


Chapter One

I have no fear of the underground.

We’ve switched to first person.

I spent my childhood under the mountains of Kurth.

Some character background.

Usually I find comfort beneath the shelter of solid stone.

More character background.

But the halls of Kurth echo with vitality.

World building and a clue that we are somewhere other than Kurth. But still no action.

There is a restless silence about this place.

So wherever we are, it’s quiet. But what is a restless silence?

It is not the empty hush of a forgotten tomb.

The character is familiar with tombs. A treasure hunter, maybe?

There is a palpable sense of malice lurking in this silence.

Not sure we need the word ‘palpable’. We get it. The place is creepy. Still no action.

I was nine years of age when I first told my father of my wish to search for lost havens.

More character background.

In a futile attempt to dissuade me from that path, he reserved a three-page excerpt of the Testimony of Alrak for my edification.

I’ve heard of tough love, but why would anyone let a nine-year-old read something that might drive the kid crazy?

Given the documents reputation, he must have called in more than one favor to obtain it.

Dad has connections.

As chilling as Alrak's account is, it did not prepare me for my first contact with a living abhorrent.

So by this time the character has since had contact with an abhorrent.

The estimation that this is a young abhorrent only deeps my self-deprecation.

A young abhorrent? Is that why our character is still alive?

I can only assume that every member of the party is now marked.

So there are other characters around somewhere. Sounds like being marked is a bad thing.

While I cannot be certain that my own faculties have not been destroyed, it appears my husband's mind is now a devil's playground because of my audacity.

Finally, the main character has a gender. (At least, I assume so.) And a new character is introduced—the husband. What ever she did has affected her husband and possibly herself.

I should have taken his council when he suggested we return to town.

They could have turned back but didn’t. Back from what?

But my pride was not content to face the condescension of Councilman Stark with the paltry amount of information we had collected.

What a mess of a sentence. How about “But I was too proud to face Councilman Stark’s condescension for collecting such a paltry amount of information.” A new character is introduced and the only one with a name thus far. What's up with that?

Thanks to me, most party members are severely injured, many are trying to kill one another, and the some are missing.

Sounds like a large party. And they are in trouble. But we still have not seen any action and we still do not know what is going on.

My hubris may well be the destruction of us all.

More hints of gloom and doom. More guilt-ridden angst. This is getting a little tiring. Get on with it.


-----------------------​

Four paragraphs into the first chapter and the main character still has no name, there has been no action, and we are still not clear on the setting. It’s all tone and no substance. The author is clearly trying to manipulate the reader’s emotion, but I don’t think we have established enough connection with the nameless main character to feel for her. At this point I’m more interested in the events from the preface than I am in the first person account.
 

reph

Re: Cosmic Writer

... i'm intensely amused by this, in a "laughing with you, not at you" sort of way. But since it isn't supposed to be amusing, i feel odd about it.

It isn't supposed to be amusing? It sure fooled me. All that use of exaggeration. And the vaguely Near East/Muslim setting–and suddenly "Councilman Stark." With that name, for all I know, he represents a middle-class district in New Jersey.
 

Crusader

Re:

@reph:

Oy vey, you have a point. Now that i look at it again, i'm not seeing Conan the Barbarian and hearing drums like i was before: now i'm sensing Terry Pratchett. i guess the preface could read either straight or comedic; i'm just presuming straight, as there is an attempt (if uneven) at gravitas.

It's interesting that you see a Middle Eastern angle; so do i, the images in my head are of sand dunes and dusty crypts and such. It would be interesting to have that vision turned upside down by a revelation that the setting is, say, a forested, alpine area.

And yes, the name of 'Stark' jangles now that you mention it.


@detante:

Nice critique. It's really neat to see inside another reader's mind like this. You also clued me in to things i missed. Most notably...

Alrak exhausted his limited supply of ink within the first year of composition.
"Why was the supply limited? Is the haven completely cut off?"


Aside from being a funny comment, it's a wake-up slap: this haven is raided, one guy is left, he makes a deal with the devil, and then... life just went on for 115 years. Didn't anyone in the vicinity stop by to check on relatives, friends, business partners? Did anyone trade with or have communications with this haven prior to the siege, so as to miss the haven when it was gone, and so as to go searching for revenge/a bodycount/to loot the place?

And, just how did the Testament get back to civilisation, anyway, if nobody could be bothered to visit the haven for 115+ years in the first place?

Also...

Whatever she did has affected her husband and possibly herself.

Another good point. You've reminded us that the narrator is announcing she's unreliable; anything she says could be suspect.
 

maestrowork

Re:

I won't crit the preface, since it's not technically part of the story.

I have no fear of the underground. I spent my childhood under the mountains of Kurth.

Setting up the protagonist. I wonder what "the underground" is. I don't think it's literal, but it could be.

Usually I find comfort beneath the shelter of solid stone. But the halls of Kurth echo with vitality. There is a restless silence about this place. It is not the empty hush of a forgotten tomb. There is a palpable sense of malice lurking in this silence.

Nice description of the setting. Good use of the five senses. Narrative voice seems strong -- you can tell that the narrator is "telling" a story. But it's in present tense... so it's a little weird.

I was nine years of age when I first told my father of my wish to search for lost havens.

Mention of lost havens. Hopefully it's intriguing.

In a futile attempt to dissuade me from that path, he reserved a three-page excerpt of the Testimony of Alrak for my edification.

If I've read the preface, I'd know what the Testimony of Alrak is. If not, I'll not know.

Given the documents reputation, he must have called in more than one favor to obtain it.

Is it the original? Or just a copy? From just the narrative itself, I can only guess that it's very valuable and sacred or something.


As chilling as Alrak's account is, it did not prepare me for my first contact with a living abhorrent.

It jumps immediately to the "abhorrent." I find it a little jarring. It goes from his dwelling to the Testimony of Alrak to immediately the abhorrent. Meanwhile, if I have not read the preface at all, I'd have no idea what he's talking about. Does any of these have to do with "the underground" in the first sentence?

The estimation that this is a young abhorrent only deeps my self-deprecation. I can only assume that every member of the party is now marked.

"Deeps" is a strange word... I was expecting "deepends" so it caught me off guard. Also, I'm not sure what "member of party is marked" means. What party?


While I cannot be certain that my own faculties have not been destroyed, it appears my husband's mind is now a devil's playground because of my audacity.

The gender of the narrator is known at this time. Some characterization of both the narrator and her husband. The transition is a little abrupt, but I assume the narrator and the husband is part of the "party." Now it seems to me that they have been doing some expedition or something. And perhaps the "underground" thing in the first line makes more sense here, if they're exploring undergrounds, caves, etc.


I should have taken his council when he suggested we return to town.

Sensing something bad is about the happen.


But my pride was not content to face the condescension of Councilman Stark with the paltry amount of information we had collected.

Characterization.

Thanks to me, most party members are severely injured, many are trying to kill one another, and the some are missing. My hubris may well be the destruction of us all.

So due to the narrator's action, people are severely injured and they've gone insane -- possibly including the narrator's husband.

I like the narrator's voice, even though this genre (historical/fantasy?) is not my cup of tea. I'm not sure if I'd want to read on, but it certainly has something going on. What is the abhorrent (considering that I haven't read the preface)? What happened to the party?

I find the present tense distracting though. Clearly the events of this story have already happened -- it's quite evident in the storyteller's narrative voice. But the use of present tense prompts me to think it's real time. So I'm not very comfortable with this contradition.

I generally find this excerpt confusing.
 

Crusader

Re:

@maestrowork:

Do read the preface, good sir.

But, you've highlighted a good point; anyone who skips the preface here would be utterly helpless for awhile (assuming that the events of the preface are even recounted in the novel at all). And, it's interesting to see a crit of what the first page itself looks like, sans backstory; "confusing" is apt.
 

detante

Re:

Yet another reason I don't like the use of a preface. Too many people skip them. If it's important to the story, the author should work it into the story. I think the preface is better than chapter one, although both are tragically overwritten. The author is trying too hard.
 

reph

Re:

...both are tragically overwritten. The author is trying too hard.

Either that or the author is deliberately producing humor. I took it as the latter. If I were to cast this for actors, I'd see whether Monty Python was available. The idea of a manuscript that causes insanity reminds me of Python's bit about the joke that's so funny it's fatal. Everyone who hears it dies laughing, and so it has to be carefully guarded, or warded, as the case may be.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.