The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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Dodgem James

Re: Uh, Jim?

Hey Jim,

I suppose you thought the high cover price was a curve ball but I'd say that was a strike. The curve ball would be the "standard discounts" that exist only at PA and not at the distributors.

As for things, they are going great. I'll have some good news for you in (hopefully) less than a week.
Still up for buying 10 copies of my books should you find them on a shelf of your local randomly picked store?
Or was that only if PA was my final stop at publishing success?

Dodgem James
 

FM St George

Re: Case Watchers

instead of starting this crap again, why don't you just tell us what you've been up to...

*shakes head*

or not.
 

FM St George

Anyone understand this?

www.publishamerica.com/cg.../10576.htm


HARRYANGUS



8/11/2004
10:48:39
Subject: PR Web Article


Message:
Hi All,
I found the following article on PR Web. I don't know if anybody has posted this article here, but I would like to know what other PA authors have actually done to circumvent the problems that we face trying to market our books. I am looking for pragmatic answers is there is any.
Thanks

Harry Angus
[email protected]



The price new authors must pay to be published!
PublishAmerica authors paying the ultimate price for pursuing their dreams.

(PRWEB) August 11, 2004 -- PublishAmerica Inc. is a publisher that seems to be a double-blade sword for those authors that seek out its services. The company provides an opportunity for aspiring authors publication for their works. The fulfillment of those dreams is the treasure at the end of a rainbow for some. But converting that dream into reality comes at a price that some should never have to pay.

As with most dreams, there are different levels in which to categorize them. Some of those aspiring authors are nothing short of happy to have their book published and physically in their hands. Their dreams have been converted into reality and they can ask nothing more to make their world perfect. In short, they have become a published author of their manuscript and their career as a writer has come full-circle. They do not aspire to publish any more books and are proud to be the talk of family and friends in their own world.

Others pursue the road of marketing their book, only to become discouraged by the constant door being closed on them when they mention that PublishAmerica is their publisher. This treatment comes from the fact that PublishAmerica books are priced above market value and are printed on a non-returnable basis. That breaks down to mean that once a bookstore has placed an order, the only way to assure recuperation of the money invested is to have a demand that will meet the supply. The books cannot be returned to PublishAmerica for refund and many bookstores do not feel that it is worth the risk to invest in such conditions. Because of this policy, the author becomes frustrated and decides to abandon their dreams after discovering that the burden of marketing is far more discouraging than their dream of being a successful author. These authors give up on future writing endeavors and return to their own reality.

But what about those authors that are struggling to gain recognition in the publishing world? Many authors have found a vicious cycle of the traditional publisher refusing new authors, yet not giving new authors an opportunity to be discovered. Also, many of the mainstream traditional publishers almost insist on an agent to consider reviewing a manuscript. That, in itself, presents another aspect of the publishing world that can create further discouragement from promising authors. The result, more talent is left by the wayside to never pursue their dreams.

Enter PublishAmerica, Inc. Here is a publisher that lays claim to being a traditional advance and royalty paying book publisher that promises to launch authors in the best tradition of old-fashion quality publishing. Unlike vanity publishers that charge a fee for publishing, or self-publishing, which creates a sense of control for authors but also is accompanied by the burden of placing the book in bookstores and on such Internet stores like Amazon and Barnes & Noble, PublishAmerica Inc. does not ask for any fees from the author. The bases of this politics is that the founders in 1999 had decided that a well-written book should be worthy of publication if the author can convince a publishing company that an actual market exist to sell the book. Based on that and the talent that a new author may promise to hold, they move forward and publish the author’s book within a year of a signed contract.

Given this opportunity to have the first stepping-stone in a promising writing career, it is no wonder that they have laid claim to over 8,000 authors in their fold. However, having a book published by PublishAmerica seems to carry more burden than weight for the serious writer seeking to form a fan base in which to build on. There exist an ever increasing number of ex-PublishAmerica authors that have embarked on a mission to destroy the publisher’s reputation and all that is associated with them because of differences of opinions on what is considered a “traditional publisher”, “marketing services”, “editing services” and “royalties issues”. Rather than leave their differences in the hands of legal experts, they deem it their calling in life to warn everyone to stay away from the publisher at all cost.

While each has the given right to determine if their complaints hold any legal weight, some have taken it amongst themselves to publicly destroy the company through a smear campaign. Such tactics include posting multiple negative reviews on retailers’ boards such as Amazon for any successfully selling PublishAmerica book, send less than flattering information to PublishAmerica authors about the company and other measures that they feel will accomplish their mission. Unfortunately, the company seems unscathed by such tactics and the individuals that bear the burden of this negative publicity are the very authors that have placed their faith and dreams in the hands of the publisher. Concern authors that attempt to contact the company have communications with the publisher go unanswered. This lack of communication with the authors only enhances the claims of some and weakens the foundation of trust that the author has placed with the publisher.

In the end, the very authors that have sought the services of PublishAmerica to commence what could be a promising writing career, have found that the very mention of having a book published by the publisher has become a cross they must bear as they continue to traverse from small publisher into the mainstream publishing world. Sadly, those ex-PublishAmerica authors that have instigated their negative campaign against the publisher have ended up damaging the dreams of their fellow authors more than impairing the future of the publisher. When all is said and done, the dream of becoming an author has converted into a nightmare for more than one author. I know from experience.

I am an author that has written this article out of experience. However, unlike most, I refuse to be denied my future in writing because of the behavior of some. My career is budding and I owe that, in part, to my fan base being established with my association with PublishAmerica. If an author is able to weather the storm, there is a rainbow waiting for them.

Frederick A. Babb
www.frederickbabb.com
 

Dodgem James

Re: Case Watchers

"instead of starting this crap again, why don't you just tell us what you've been up to..."

Well, gee, when you make me feel so welcome...

Jim, I'll email you privately when I have all the details worked out.

DJ
 

BeckEaston

The only thing wrong with Fred's article...

There exist an ever increasing number of ex-PublishAmerica authors that have embarked on a mission to destroy the publisher’s reputation and all that is associated with them because of differences of opinions on what is considered a “traditional publisher”, “marketing services”, “editing services” and “royalties issues”. Rather than leave their differences in the hands of legal experts, they deem it their calling in life to warn everyone to stay away from the publisher at all cost.

Marketing, Editing and Royalties is not opinion. These are specific performance promises made by Publish America who is advertising statements they know is an outright lie. This element may be a major hurdle to prove because dishonest people are very skillful and ingenious at disguising their statements, knowing the "fine line" to avoid legal trouble or face any scrutiny.

No one cares whether or not PA is a "traditional publisher." That has never really been the issue. These authors are not simply "disgruntled" or "upset" as most people tend to label ex-PA authors, and calling them that is tantamount to implying that there is no basis in fact for PA's wrong doing.

The:head
 

bgsherri

Re: The only thing wrong with Fred's article...

i just got an email from PA telling me they have 'accepted' my proposal and can i have the manuscript to them in two weeks?

That was my first clue that the road may not be golden.

My (former) agent sent me to them because she was unable to place my book in the hands of a publisher. While the feedback was not 'negative' editors felt there is no market for it. Actually, there is, and one publisher said a similar book is coming out in the fall, which was her reason for refusing it.

I'm new, the book is non-fiction, and while I'm no expert, something tells me to stay away from PA.

While clearly, there are some happy campers out there, I'm overwhelmed at the number of negative posts...and that long letter that basically sings the praises of PA is a bit suspect to me...

so, if 80% of submissions are rejected, should I feel honored?

And isn't that the normal rejection rate of a publisher?

I really don't know.....
 

BeckEaston

Hang in there.

All I can say is hang in there. It isn't so bad. Maybe get help on your synopsis or your cover letter. That might help you land more opportunity. Remember, editors are just people. If you feel you have a "nitch" market then advertise to that. Tell the new publisher your marketing ideas. Select your group to market to and go with that. Let the manuscript sell on it's own merits. In the end, you'll feel a whole lot better about sticking to your principals.
 

aka eraser

Re: The only thing wrong with Fred's article...

Sherri if your (ex) agent steered you to PA she was the wrong agent.

You have a lot more avenues to exhaust before considering signing with PA (although niche-targeted NF is, along with poetry, one of the only semi-valid reasons for going their route, *if* you have the means to deliver a considerable number of those books into the readers' hands via lectures, workshops etc.)

There are many reputable small, medium and even a couple of large houses which will consider non-agented nonfiction manuscripts. Write a killer query and proposal and start approaching them.

If your goal is getting your book into bookstores without whining, begging and supplying them at your own expense then PA is not for you.
 

bgsherri

Thanks!!

Thanks for the support and advice...I've been at this on and off for two years...but I haven't approached the smaller houses myself. I was told I needed an agent. And you are right, she may not have been the right one for me. Hard to say. She was kind enough not to charge me for all the copying she did when she sent out my proposal, and I appreciated that, given my financial situation...and I know I'm in good company!

Guess I need to start over! Deep breaths, right?

Thanks again!!
 

Sher2

Re: The only thing wrong with Fred's article...

<No one cares whether or not PA is a "traditional publisher." That has never really been the issue. These authors are not simply "disgruntled" or "upset" as most people tend to label ex-PA authors, and calling them that is tantamount to implying that there is no basis in fact for PA's wrong doing.>

I concur. The article, poorly written as it is, will only serve to further inflame the PA zealots. Even if PA or ex-PA authors are "disgruntled", they don't get that way for no reason. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
 

Sher2

Re: Thanks!!

<Guess I need to start over! Deep breaths, right?>


Breath DEEEPPPLY, Sherri, and run as fast and as far from PA as you can. There are lots of publishing houses that will work with unagented authors. In my opinion, any agent who can't see PA for what it is isn't much of an agent.

Oh, and about that 80% rejection rate? I'd be VERY surprised if that number was accurate. If I had to guess, I'd say it was more in the vicinity of 80% acceptance to 20% rejection.
 

Roxie the Doxie

Re: Case Watchers

I think this poster from the mb has finally hit the nail on the head as to why people dislike PA....NOT.




enny Evans

8/11/2004
12:11:21

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp RE: PR Web Article


Message:
I can;t believe what I just read. Even though I'm new to PA I find them to be helpful and fair in all levels. Possibly the reason that those authors that are smearing PA is because: (a) they did not make an honest effort to market their own books, or (b)they did not know what they were doing. It certainaly can't be because their book(s) weren't good because in that case PA never would have published them in the first place.

PHEW!
Jenny Evans
 

HConn

Re: Thanks!!

I haven't approached the smaller houses myself. I was told I needed an agent.

Look up each small press on the web. Almost all have a web site with their submission guidelines. I think you'll be surprised by how many do not require an agent.

Did you get a list of publishers from your ex-agent? The agent should send you a log of where they have already sent your material.

And you are right, she may not have been the right one for me.

She recommended PA? I have no doubt.
 

Savannah Blue

Re: The only thing wrong with Fred's article

I'm new, the book is non-fiction, and while I'm no expert, something tells me to stay away from PA.


Whatever that something is, please listen to it. Like Sher2 said, run as fast and far as you can. I've heard it said that there's nothing worse than not being published. Being published badly is ever so much worse. Your work, which you love and believe in with all your heart, will be open to public scorn. It may be from simply not knowing enough, as was my case, to having to listen to how poorly PublishAmerica is viewed in the literary world. Scorn is scorn, no matter which direction it comes from.

Run, child, run!

Savannah Blue
 

XThe NavigatorX

Re: Uh, Jim?

so, if 80% of submissions are rejected, should I feel honored?

And isn't that the normal rejection rate of a publisher?


I don't know what the specific average is, but I'm pretty sure it's way less than 1% for reputable publishers of any size. The good news is 80% of the submissions are written in crayon, utterly illiterate, etc.
 

BeckEaston

It always amazes me...

I can’t believe what I just read. Even though I'm new to PA I find them to be helpful and fair in all levels. Possibly the reason that those authors that are smearing PA is because: (a) they did not make an honest effort to market their own books, or (b) they did not know what they were doing. It certainly can't be because their book(s) weren't good because in that case PA never would have published them in the first place.
No Dave, don't. Please let me on this one?

I received an email from Publish America suggesting that I go and purchase three books. 1. Guerilla Marketing, 2. Publicize Your Book and 3. An Author's Guide to Promotion from Publish America. The email further suggested that I follow those instructions to the letter and I would be successful. So, I contacted a publicity firm, I employed an hourly staff to sign, seal and deliver thousands of letters to every media source in the nation and UK. I researched every single bookseller within a 5 state radius of where I live. I followed up with several phone calls. I sent out press releases. I contacted every single bookseller online because Publish America didn't do that for me. I even drove and sought these professionals in person. I went above and beyond the call of what is expected of an author, and followed up afterwards, because I am a professional businesswoman and sales are what I am great at.

Now, you say I 'didn't market correctly?" What part of what I did was not correct? Every single time one of my people or myself contacted a bookseller, reviewer, industry professional or media professional we were told that the company contacted wants nothing whatsoever to do with any author from Publish America. Period.

they did not know what they were doing
.
Let's see, I have experience in taking a multitude of companies from merely hundred thousands of profits, through business development, into millions. What are your credentials in this area. Oh, and by the way, my publicity firm, just won a national award.

If you're new, I would suggest that you read a little bit more than what you think you know. These claims on these boards are consistent and factual.

PA is very good at suggesting that we're all "disgruntled" authors who couldn't sell our product. In fact, they make their living on it. If you don't believe me, bring up one of these posts and see how fast you get banned or get slammed for even looking here. PA wants you ignorant, faithful and full of naive hope.
 

Roxie the Doxie

Re: It always amazes me...

That post came directly from the PA message board, not these boards. Sorry if there was any confusion as to its origins.
 

BeckEaston

Hopefully someone will post my reply

That is if they seriously want that answer. Sorry Roxie, it's just that I used to think the same way. May have been a little forward? Ya think?

Oops!
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: It always amazes me...

Well said, Rebecca. If you would, please forward me a copy of that PA email. It would make excellent documentation of their activities. Also, if you forward it, that preserves the headers which can be used to prove where it originated.

For everyone's information, the Case Watchers site is back online. They've removed that one slur used as a topic title and created new topics. I read through and one states that they're not going to mention PA without using a code so it won't be found by us. Right, as if we're trying to shut them down. If Marti was to tell the truth, she and her book would both be free of PA soon enough. Then she could market it through some reputable publisher where it might actually make some sales.

What amazes me is that Marti couldn't recognize the opportunities that were facing her in the past few days. She had two well-known editors with New York publishing companies, a vice president from Lightning Source, and some professional authors who could have given her expert advice and established some additional contacts for her within the publishing industry. Those contacts could have helped her immensely in reaching her goals to help missing people and their families. Instead, she called them bobbleheads for making statements in support of my integrity. I hope someone with her email address will advise her of what she missed since I don't want to give PA a reason to force her to shut down that site again.
 

Sher2

Re: It always amazes me...

<She had two well-known editors with New York publishing companies, a vice president from Lightning Source, and some professional authors who could have given her expert advice and established some additional contacts for her within the publishing industry. Those contacts could have helped her immensely in reaching her goals to help missing people and their families. Instead, she called them bobbleheads for making statements in support of my integrity. I hope someone with her email address will advise her of what she missed since I don't want to give PA a reason to force her to shut down that site again. >


Why she behaved in such a churlish, unprofessional manner is beyond me. And now they've gone to "codes." What next? Secret handshakes? Magic decoder rings? How childish.

Speaking of Lightning Source, did you all know there's a Lightning Source in the UK printing PA books? I had no idea 'til I saw mention of it today.
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: It always amazes me...

Yes, this remark of hers, "Okay, we'll start over. But Dave and his bobbleheads will be deleted. No more talk about our publisher, k??? If we don't call them by their name, the search engines won't pick it up and the rats won't find us. We need a nick name, then we can talk without interruption. Probably not, but ..." makes it so tempting to post "Boo!" just once except for the fact that I think the rats she's referring to happens to be her publisher and its goons.
 

Molly Brent

PA

In the past week I have been told that I am dumb, a bubble head, a Dave follower and I do not have a life.
I was told I did not read the contract. I did not investigate. I’m tired of being told what I did and how I feel.

First, I don’t even know Dave very well. I contacted him several times and asked for his help. I admire him and respect him as an honest person and only regret is that I did not know him sooner.

As for being dumb and a bubble head, I do not have a college degree but I did go 3 years. I do have a very high IQ and once scored the highest score ever made on a national test. I have also been told that my career is over.
Well, writing is my hobby, not my career. I do not know much about this profession and from what I do know from my past experience, I don’t want any part of it. My wonderful book is down the toilet and I have accepted that. All my reviews were legit and many from highly respected authors and reviewers. All 5 star.

I did have another publisher. I just didn’t know one from the other. I had already signed with PA when I heard back from the other. PA accepted my book within days. I read the contract. I asked all the right questions.
I contacted the BBB and the attorney general. I was promised in writing and in the contract, a professional editor

In five months, I received my proofs. Even the name of the book and the author’s name were wrong.
When I almost had a nervous breakdown, I was reassured by my so called editor that “they all was professionals”

Here is a sample of her corrections. Hardly anyone used the old highway. Hers…..Hardly, anyone used the old highway. Then I was told I didn’t know how to use commas, but her words again “don’t worry, we all needs help sometimes.”

They refused to let my hired editor do it over. She sent in 98 pages of corrections their editor made. They refused to make them and wanted to print the book with the mistakes. Finally they let the editor I hired just write it over.

It went to the printer on Sept 1 and for sale on their site on Sept 16, I ordered 251 books as soon as possible to have them for a big signing in the casino on the 24th of Oct. It was a special party by invitation…….The books didn’t come. They forgot to send them. I did receive them the next week. That’s when I discovered that they had sent the wrong set of proofs to the printers.

It took weeks for me to get the online book stores to get my info and picture right. Then what happened?
PA assigned the same ISBN to another book and my info was on another title. If you tried to order my book you got the wrong book.

I hired a PR firm, I took out ads and had several thousand letters sent to independent book stores. I had been told by PA that their biggest buyers were the chain stores but I learned fast that they would not allow a PA book in their stores. In a matter of weeks I was number 22 on PA’s best seller list. My royalty check was $35.

I moved up on the best seller list and last week. I was told when tried to order 20 books as a test “no problem” but they would have to order them from the publisher. I called Ingram and was told they had sold 30 books. Now, I don’t even have a contract with PA……..it was returned to me in May. My book is still being sold illegally.

Molly Brent
 

Sher2

Re: PA

<It took weeks for me to get the online book stores to get my info and picture right. Then what happened?
PA assigned the same ISBN to another book and my info was on another title. If you tried to order my book you got the wrong book.

I hired a PR firm, I took out ads and had several thousand letters sent to independent book stores. I had been told by PA that their biggest buyers were the chain stores but I learned fast that they would not allow a PA book in their stores. In a matter of weeks I was number 22 on PA’s best seller list. My royalty check was $35.

I moved up on the best seller list and last week. I was told when tried to order 20 books as a test “no problem” but they would have to order them from the publisher. I called Ingram and was told they had sold 30 books. Now, I don’t even have a contract with PA……..it was returned to me in May. My book is still being sold illegally.>


What a horror story, Molly. I hope you have a lawyer. If you can't afford one, I saw a link somewhere the other day for free legal advice to writers and other artists. Also, there's not a doubt in my mind that there will be a class action sooner rather than later. Good luck to you!
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: PA

Molly, here's the link to those lawyers you should contact. I can't guarantee that they can help you, but at least they won't charge you to find out what they can do.

Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts

I do hope they can help you.
 

Molly Brent

PA

Two months ago I had a stroke. Docs say the major cause was stress from all this ......I had to have 3 surgeries to restore my hearing. My left eye is still closed and I am in a wheelchair if I take over a few steps.

Money is not a problem. I play poker with a very good attorney every week and there are two on my block. Stress is the problem I would like to get my book off the online book stores and forget it.

I posted the above for two reasons. I wanted to give the ones considering using PA some facts and I wanted the PA rah rah club to get their facts right.

Molly
 
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