Clichés you could do without?

I wrote a sci-fi novel that has 90% men and very few women. My question is...can a female write from a man's point of view?

rwm4768 said:

If I remember correctly, it wasn't a sex or romance thing. It was more about punishment. But I could be wrong. I think I started skimming whenever those kinds of scenes popped up..

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Punishment that was always doled out to the women characters, on a tiresomely frequent basis. I don't recall it ever happening to the men. I suppose I should be grateful Jordan wasn't interested in spanking them as well - tiresome is certainly the word.

But getting back to topic, the one fantasy cliche that stands above all others for me, the one I hate with the passion of a thousand white hot suns, is prophecy. I loathe every possible permutation of it.

For sci-fi, it's robots wanting to be human. Perhaps it's too many Star Trek: TNG episodes watching bloody Data explore his bloody humanity. I actually had to suppress a cheer in the cinema when he finally died - people were sobbing around me and there I was, grinning like a maniac and all I could think was Finally, good riddance!

lorikeels said:

I wrote a sci-fi novel that has 90% men and very few women. My question is...can a female write from a man's point of view?

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As much as a modern person can write from the POV of a Victorian or Elizibethan. Things are largely the same, and what differences there are tend to be blindingly obvious.

One's sex (and all other experience) is a lens, not a shroud.

lorikeels said:

I wrote a sci-fi novel that has 90% men and very few women. My question is...can a female write from a man's point of view?

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Yes. All the time. Why, can you not write from a woman's perspective?

lorikeels said:

My question is...can a female write from a man's point of view?

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This makes me wonder what books you've been reading.

Papaya said:

That's true; men are not immune to the guilt complex that still exists in society around sexuality.

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To continue my thought, the notion of virgins having power, and losing that power with their virginity, has also applied to males (this may be the ultimate origin of the celibate priesthood thing in Real Life[SUP]TM[/SUP]) and I've seen it in fantasy a great deal more often than I have the powerful virgin female (with or without loss thereof)... possibly because males are usually assumed (here's another cliche I'm weary of) to have more trouble controlling their sexual impulses, so it makes for Instant Internal Conflict (just add water!)***

Most such notions have some basis in fact, however bizarrely or bassackwardly applied, and now I'm wondering how this one came about... it seems to be very old in human culture, so possibly grew out of the instinctive level of human courtship. (Eg. once you 'get' him/her, he/she loses the power to 'magically' attract you, that sort of thing.)

*** Okay, here's a weird idea for ya... a society where all males are born having this Power (here left undefined) which they lose with their virginity. Said Power is dangerous or inconvenient to society/TPTB/other men/women/whatever. The only way to lose it is to have unwilling sex, and not by another male. This could lead to a culture of women who are rapists.

OJCade said:

But getting back to topic, the one fantasy cliche that stands above all others for me, the one I hate with the passion of a thousand white hot suns, is prophecy. I loathe every possible permutation of it.

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Argh! Yes, this one!!

And every time I see one, I'm thinkin' ... if you know this Prophecy is a-comin', why can't you do something about it without waiting for the special farmboy or cataclysmic event or whatever. And for a while writers were twisting it with "how trying to obstruct the prophecy goes wrong" but even that has become a tired cliche.

In my SF Epic, one culture sorta believes in prophecy; major character from there believes in a 'prophetic' dream [read: recurring nightmare] he has, and proceeds to act stupid as a result.

OJCade said:

For sci-fi, it's robots wanting to be human. Perhaps it's too many Star Trek: TNG episodes watching bloody Data explore his bloody humanity. I actually had to suppress a cheer in the cinema when he finally died

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<pricking ears> Finally??! I have not seen all the films. I may have to see this one.

And why did we never (or if we did I don't recall) have other ST people wanting to be a robot? After all, Data seems to have all the advantages.... I've seen the trope elsewhere, tho.

lorikeels said:

I wrote a sci-fi novel that has 90% men and very few women. My question is...can a female write from a man's point of view?

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I do a lot of the time. In fact I know several readers got a surprise because they thought I was a guy (To be fair, the pen name doesn't help there!)

So yes, of course you can - and men can write women. You write a person first. It might take some extra effort to think like your character, and you'll probably want some male betas to point out where you could brush up a bit on things you hadn't thought of. But it's very doable. Look at CJ Cherryh and her male characters, or Pratchett and his superb female characters.

lorikeels said:

I wrote a sci-fi novel that has 90% men and very few women. My question is...can a female write from a man's point of view?

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Absolutely, and many authors do a great job of writing cross gender characters, not to mention other characters who differ from then in various ways.

I certainly don't want every character I write to be a clone of me: female, white, heterosexual, middle aged living in early 21st century, educated etc. Gender is one of many things that people filter their experiences and perceptions through, and people experience it in different ways. The secret is not to get hung up on whether or not "a typical man" or "a typical woman" would do or think or feel the things your character does, but whether or not these things make sense to your character in their situation.

In any case, how many of us are "typical" for our gender in all, or even most, respects?

Reziac said:

And why did we never (or if we did I don't recall) have other ST people wanting to be a robot? After all, Data seems to have all the advantages.... I've seen the trope elsewhere, tho.

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There was an episode in STNG where there was a boy who wanted to be a robot like Data. I think they convinced him he was being dysfunctional, though. I always assumed Data was the way he was as a sort of anti Spock. He had what Spock had always craved--an existence based on pure logic, untainted by human (or even Vulcan) frailty and emotion, yet he didn't want it. I admit, I liked the character, though there was the paradox of "longing for" what you didn't have being, in essence, an emotional experience.

A cliche (or trope, perhaps) I don't especially care for is gender-segregated magic (or worse yet, magic that can't be used by women at all). I've read and enjoyed some books like this (Wizard of Earthsea comes to mind), but I like to see fantasy where magic levels the playing field between the genders, rather than making society even more sexist and segregated than it was historically. Maybe that's wish fulfillment on my part, but ergh, if I want to read stories where women are restricted to traditional roles, I'll read historic fiction, not speculative.

And I think the trope where men get to do the magic because women have this "amazing" ability to bring forth life with their bodies should die in a fire.

lilyWhite said:

One story idea that I have in the back of my mind is a "magical girl" story with a pair of women whose powers awaken when they make love for the first time together (which they also have to do in order to recharge their powers).

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That's the basis of most Sayaka x Kyouko Madoka doujinshi.

Go for it.

Lillith1991 said:

I'm playing with a concept I call interplanetery romeo and juliet with lesbians. It's a fun concept. Still in the world building stage, but I like it.

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But . . . but . . . you got no zombies? No vampires?

caw

Lillith1991 said:

Gimme! Gimme!

I'm playing with a concept I call interplanetery romeo and juliet with lesbians. It's a fun concept. Still in the world building stage, but I like it.

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Galactic Code 1873.2454.1378.7 mandates any lesbian affairs must involve at least three life form races*, six genetically unique individuals, and no less than 21 observation panelists. That is quite a large cast. Need a volunteer (observer)?

* Zombies are not qualified. They know squat about sex, hetero or gay.

Placing the hero against the main villain, or any villain in particular he's not prepared for, and allowing the hero to live. If the hero isn't prepared for the villain, yet he has a run-in with the villain, then the hero should be killed.