I don't know who knew what. I'd be surprised if Powell didn't have the same info that was available to Bush. I don't know what's expected of a military leader in such circumstances. I think I might have read that he was in favor of preemptive action because the consequences would be too great. I really don't know what data counts in intelligence circles; I think Wexler is gnawing on that bone in congress right now.
How much will race play in the elections?
- Thread starter Robert Toy
- Start date
I don't know who knew what. I'd be surprised if Powell didn't have the same info that was available to Bush. I don't know what's expected of a military leader in such circumstances. I think I might have read that he was in favor of preemptive action because the consequences would be too great. I really don't know what data counts in intelligence circles; I think Wexler is gnawing on that bone in congress right now.
I think it will play a major role. I know far too many people like my uncle. He's a hardcore democrat. He's also extremely racist. He won't vote for McCain, but he will not vote for a black man. He just won't. He won't vote at all in this election. There are plenty more who will say the right things respecting race, but won't actually punch the ballot. It's ugly, but real.
Your uncle sounds like some of my relatives (who live in supposedly liberal southern California). They said they will be voting for McCain even though they are Democrats because they simply won't vote for a black man, period.
It is an honor to be in the same thread as the big man. Feel like I know you. But I respectfully, (very very respectfully kind sir ) disagree and would have to add a caveat to what you are implying.
I would agree that there are a lot of isms, however those isms are not equal. When dealing with racism, oftentimes, there is nothing you can say or do to change someone's mind/perspective.
Similarly, given that Whites are the majority, statistically speaking, this means that Obama will suffer more damage from whites racist against blacks, than McCain will suffer damage from blacks racist against whites. And given how close the past couple of elections have been (when literally 2% points or less was the margin of victory) this is a definite bonus for McCain.
Do I believe the majority of Americans are racist? No. But are there enough racists to make a statistical difference? Absolutely.
I can't see her being 1/2 as bad as Nancy Reagan if you want to talk about witches.
But I do agree that the Obama camp needs to put some polish on her PR image and maybe pull the reins in a bit.
******
Personally, I think all bets are off on a clear winner this election. I think it will be close. The real ace in the hole (for either side) will be Iraq. If Iraq gets better, its good for McCain, if it stays the same or gets worst, its good for Obama.
If the GOP was really smart, they would use their pull to get the oil overlords to lower the price of gas to under $3.00 a galloon prior to the election. I think that could be another ace in the hole for the GOP if they could 'swing it'.
But I hope not. I am ready for change. I too am a little hesistant because for me Obama seems too good, too polished. But in all honesty, after Bush, you'd be hard press to find someone who is worse. I'm ready to take a gamble and dare to hope. Again.
Like Charlie Brown running to kick the football from Lucy. Every time, she pulls it away, right before he gets to it. But maybe, just maybe, this time she'll hold it. Maybe, just maybe, Obama is the real deal.
Mel...
Last edited:
<checks waistline and looks at the broken bathroom scale> Thanks, but I believe that you may have me confused with my brother. I am nowhere near as great as he.
What exactly am I implying? I'll agree that -isms are not created equally, but I firmly believe that there is no inherent ranking of them either. They are all subjective, and will vary in importance from person to person. And, in every case, they are not subject to change.
This is undoubtedly true in a popular vote election. Thankfully, we don't have that. So, you need to look at the racial breakdown on a state by state basis. For a good place to start, US Census has a chart with the percent Black by State listed. If you map that data against Electoral College Votes by State , you'll find that the reverse racism could have an effect on just 59 electoral votes (restricting this analysis to the states that have 25% or greater black population).
Yes, if you only look at one direction of racism (anti-black).
Unfortunately, there is no similar source of information concerning the distribution by state of liberals, progressives, conservatives, libertarians, anarchists, communists, etc, etc. I hold that they can be as rabid in their -isms as any other group, and are less susceptable to statistical manipulation.
I couldn't make up my mind. And you didn't have the Orlando button. It's frustrating, all joking aside, to hear and see--in my small vacinity here in this corner of Turkey--what's going on as far as voting for Obama.
His color is the deciding factor--whether he gets the vote, or he loses the vote. If people vote for or against McCain, it'll be because of what merits they see in him/don't see in him. I can't tell you how many times I've heard: 'bout time they let a brothuh in...that's where my vote's goin'.'
Um. Okay. But that's a pretty crappy reason.
Now I jump on the otherside of the fence.
At first, I was going to vote for Hillary--because she's a woman...because, 'bout time they let a woman run for the main office...that's where my vote's goin'.
Yep. Hypocrite. I ain't proud.
But then....I started listening to her...and about her...and her again...aaaahhhhhh...it became stifling. It was no longer what Hillary's message was, or Obama's message...it was: A black and a woman...which will win this state, that state....
And I became disgusted with the whole thing. I kept trying to see it for the remarkable era it was becoming; something my grandchildren would read about in their history books...but in the end, something was profoundly lost, namely, a whole lotta the sense of We The People.
His color is the deciding factor--whether he gets the vote, or he loses the vote. If people vote for or against McCain, it'll be because of what merits they see in him/don't see in him. I can't tell you how many times I've heard: 'bout time they let a brothuh in...that's where my vote's goin'.'
Um. Okay. But that's a pretty crappy reason.
Now I jump on the otherside of the fence.
At first, I was going to vote for Hillary--because she's a woman...because, 'bout time they let a woman run for the main office...that's where my vote's goin'.
Yep. Hypocrite. I ain't proud.
But then....I started listening to her...and about her...and her again...aaaahhhhhh...it became stifling. It was no longer what Hillary's message was, or Obama's message...it was: A black and a woman...which will win this state, that state....
And I became disgusted with the whole thing. I kept trying to see it for the remarkable era it was becoming; something my grandchildren would read about in their history books...but in the end, something was profoundly lost, namely, a whole lotta the sense of We The People.
Last edited:
I see your point.
It's a shame that it went on as long as it did...lots of folks got totally fed up.
It's a shame that it went on as long as it did...lots of folks got totally fed up.
And in that being fed up, waved off the whole thing, swearing they just weren't going to to any 'damn voting'.
Now...times that by thousands...not that I know an exact count...but a handful of us can't be the only ones disgusted.
Now...times that by thousands...not that I know an exact count...but a handful of us can't be the only ones disgusted.
IMO it will be a large number, mainly older (not first/second time) voters who will sit it out.
I see you switched avatars again...
I see you switched avatars again...
actually, that makes sense. I don't know many 18 year olds--it would be grand to get a poll going to find out if they're interested in voting, or same as I said above: too disgusted to give a damn.
Wow, I lost connection to AW!
Everything else was okay?
Check this link for young voters:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/02/02/youth_vote_2008/
Everything else was okay?
Check this link for young voters:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/02/02/youth_vote_2008/
I agree with all three above statements.
Will race play a part in this race? Yes. Will it be a big part? I'd like to think we're past that. I have a feeling there will be people who will say, "Well I'm voting McCain because he's older and has more experience, and he served our country," but on the inside they think, "he's white, he's like me, he'll do a better job because he represents me," even if they've voted democrat the last four elections.
I think there are many unhappy Edwards supporters out there who don't know how to vote right now, and may turn to McCain.
I voted for "minor role", primarily because I think the role has already largely been played. Anyone for whom race is an issue has already decided whom to vote for/against, and those minds are extraordinarily unlikely to be changed. Polls already reflect those decisions, I'd guess.
caw
caw
I believe that, especially in the Midwest, there is a very large segment of voters bigoted enough to choose anyone over, "that nigger." I hear words to this effect in nursing homes a lot.