50 Shades of Grey trilogy goes from fan fiction to Random House

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Toothpaste

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Still really not getting this. Sitting here literally scratching my head. How did she manipulate fellow writers? By chatting to them on a forum or something, or by writing books they might enjoy...? Do you feel that being part of a writing community that you're not deeply, selflessly in love with is somehow dishonest? And I still don't see why there's anything wrong with 'not putting much effort in' to her craft and yet getting a book deal. You don't get book deals on the basis of effort, you get them on the basis of the product of that effort. Lots of people clearly like what she's written.

All the facts I'm going off of are from that blog post Stacia linked to, so obviously I don't necessarily know all the facts. Still.

This is how I feel she manipulated the situation (possibly I misspoke in saying "readers"): the only reason (according to the blog) that she got as many initial reads of her work was because of the TWILIGHT association. People are rabid for more TWILIGHT stuff. So the main reason they read this story was because it was more Bella/Edward stuff. Not because she'd written an original work. She wrote something about Bella and Edward, used those exact names, and posted it on a site devoted to people devoted to TWILIGHT. Would she have gotten the same kind of popularity had she posted the piece without that connection? Without using those names? I have no idea. But I have a funny feeling she wouldn't have had this instant built in audience.

Then once it was really popular, she changed nothing but the names and charged people for the pleasure of reading the book. The SAME people who already associated the book with TWILIGHT and were fans. Did she get more fans? Of course, those people told other people who told other people. But would any of this have happened had she not used the TWILIGHT fan base? Unlikely.

Is this illegal? No. Is it annoying. Yes. For me. Maybe not for you.



And why do I see it as unfair that she's not a great writer but still landed a huge deal, is becoming famous and rich off her writing?

The same way I see that it's unfair about any other published author who does the same.

I want people who work hard at their craft, who struggle and improve, who are passionate about what they are doing, and just, you know, good, to succeed. I want the good guys to win. Once in a while they do. But often they don't. And that's just life. But it isn't fair. Again, at least not to me.

This doesn't mean I think any of these people don't deserve to be published. That they are doing something wrong and should have their contracts revoked. I just think it's life. I know far too many brilliant writers (and storytellers - because people always accuse not famous writers of clearly not writing compelling enough stories when maybe sometimes it's just bad luck) who go ignored, and the opposite become famous. The most recent example is Caitlin Sweet who's THE PATTERN SCARS is one of the best fantasy novels I've read in a long long time. But she was published with a small Canadian house, and she simply doesn't get the accolades she deserves.

So yeah, to me it's not fair. Because to me I like to see quality prevail. And yes, I guess we could argue subjectivity, what is good writing really and all that jazz, but that's not my point in posting in this thread.

My point is simple: life's not fair.

And it's not, even if you think this particular situation is.
 
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kaitie

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Life isn't fair. :(

Also I want a pony.
 

heza

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This is my issues with fanfiction and one of several reasons, I pulled my fanfiction off-line. I later reposted it, since it was shared anyway. There is no violation of contract when someone pulls a fanfiction offline. I've heard people say it's the equivalent of being kicked in the face which to my mind is off the charts extreme, others are betrayed. It's not that I don't take the fanfiction community seriously, but I feel the only contract is for a writer to deliver a completed piece to the reader. Implied contract fulfilled. What the writer does after that should never be grounds for the abuse throw at writers who provided their time and their words for free. The reader got what they were promised. The writer doesn't owe anything to possible, maybe future readers.

This will be a difference of personal opinion between us, then. I do see it as a social contract. I post fanfic with the understanding that I'm playing in someone else's world and that I'm not making any money off it. Out of a love for the source and to better my own abilities, I post my tribute, I guess, for the free enjoyment of others in the community. I think I agree to several other things, as well, when I do that: 1) to finish the fic, 2) to try to post quality work and endeavor to improve, 3) and to keep it accessible.

But that's just my personal "moral code" on the matter. Everyone else has different opinions. My readers commit a significant chunk of time into reading and reviewing my fic. They're investing, most of them I think, in something where they assume I'm, on some level, committed to the above conditions. I think that's why readers get so angry when things are pulled for publishing. (ETA: and over many other author decisions that, theoretically, should be none of their business.)


I agree with the first part about inspiration but not with the part about success, because if that was the case, every P2P would be as successful as 50 Shades. There is clearly something in this story that has captured the imaginations of a lot of readers outside the fandom.

A view on this aspect might depend on whether someone buys into the "fact" that the initial popularity of the book directly resulted from the fast and furious purchase of the book by fandom fans. I'm not saying subsequent success is due to the fandom, but I do think initial success was. And I'm not sure every P2P fic has the same level of following that FSoG did.

We must be visiting different places. lol In the Twific community P2P is punishable by banishment, it's the worst crime a fic writer can commit.

We are, indeed, visiting different places. I'm not a member of the Twilight fandom. And while I qualified my statement that I don't see resistance to AU fics within fandom, my statement about scrubbed fics was more concerning the broader opinion. From what I've read, people outside the fandom don't care nearly as much, else the scrubbed books wouldn't be selling.

However, given that FSoG was pulled to publish and given that (if you buy the argument) the initial purchase of the book by fans is what catapulted it, someone in the fandom can't be all that offended by the existence of P2P. That makes me think the really abusive, offended parties are a smaller but extremely loud subset of the overall fandom (as they are in pretty much any fandom).

Money can't be the reason in this case because the writer had no way of knowing if she would make a few hundred or a few million. A few hundred was much more likely given the drama about it. I believe in this case she was surprised by the success within the fandom and wanted to take it to a larger audience.

I think this is what makes me question the idea that she went into it in a conscious attempt to take advantage of the fandom and get an original (retooled to fandom) novel published.

“I have done it as a sort of exercise.. to see if I could … and I think I have proven that I can… I now want to capitalize on it…”

That quote could mean she intended to use the fandom... but it could also mean that she was just trying to see if she had it in her to write something that big and keep an audience with it.

“I have to say I do not feel as passionately as you do about the fandom”

“I’m not sure I feel part of the community…”

I like my source inspiration, I like writing my fic for it, I like and appreciate all my readers. I'm not sure I feel like a part of the "fandom" to the extent that others do. I really only write my fic--I don't really participate in forums and contests and I don't enage at all in any of the fandom wars that crop up among the real fandom members. She could have been expressing something along those lines just as easily as saying that she was never a fan in any way to begin with.

Without more of that conversation, there are too many ways to take those tweeted quotes. On the one hand, in a certain light, it does sound like she's saying she purposely manipulated the fandom. If you look at it a different way, it sounds like she wrote a fic for a book she liked, but she didn't really feel like a part of the community and after her success, her head got enormous. Maybe with the more extensive conversation that was taken down, the reality would have been more black and white.

I can completely see the offense to the fandom community in her statements, and I don't believe she in any way respected or valued her readers and supporters. I'm not sure that means she manipulated them, though.
 
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Stacia Kane

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Yeah, I don't care that she's a bad writer (and from the brief excerpts I saw, she is a BAD writer). What I care about is that she didn't create her own fanbase, she didn't create something original. She exploited someone else's fanbase, and did it in a calculating and contemptuous manner--it's not even the same as writing a fanfic because you love the characters/world so much, and then filing off the serial numbers. By her own admission she's not a TWILIGHT fan, she just used all those readers.

It's not illegal. It's not even really plagiarism. But it is still unethical, IMO. And I'm entitled to think she's pretty scummy for it, and to have zero respect for her.
 

heza

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By her own admission she's not a TWILIGHT fan, she just used all those readers.


Are you extrapolating that from the same IM quotes Stew21 posted? Or is there another source (that might have disappeared) where she says she never liked Twilight to begin with?
 

kaitie

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She said she wasn't as passionate about the fandom as the other person was. That doesn't mean she wasn't a fan. As I said, I've met many rabid to the point of obsessive (embarrassingly so) fans of various things that I'm a fan of. It doesn't make me less a fan. It makes me not rabidly obsessive. Considering some of the Twilight fans out there, I find it easy to believe that a person can be a fan and not "as passionate" as someone else.
 

Amadan

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This is all starting to look like a fandom_wank or sf_drama brouhaha. Evidently some clique of people really, really hates this writer.

Big deal, life's not fair and she's a lousy writer. Let's revive the threads about Snooki and Tyra Banks while we're at it.
 

heza

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I got partially through the comments; they are forever long. I'll have to satisfy my curiosity about this over the course of a few days, it seems.
 

kaitie

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It's in the comments of the blog post I linked to.

Dang. I'm going to just take your word for it because I don't have the time to read them all, but that's shitty.
 

Alitriona

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This will be a difference of personal opinion between us, then. I do see it as a social contract. I post fanfic with the understanding that I'm playing in someone else's world and that I'm not making any money off it. Out of a love for the source and to better my own abilities, I post my tribute, I guess, for the free enjoyment of others in the community. I think I agree to several other things, as well, when I do that: 1) to finish the fic, 2) to try to post quality work and endeavor to improve, 3) and to keep it accessible.

I actually agree everything except keeping it accessible. For the record I haven't come across a pulled Twi fic that isn't accessible through the fandom. And if this book was selling a story featuring Edward and Bella or in the universe of Twilight, I would agree selling it is wrong but it's not. There are two different characters in a very different world.

I only wish the group I referred to was small and vocal. :)


As for the quotes, yes they are out of context. In fact, the entire link is one sided and unreliable for the full picture. I was also around while all this was going on and lost a ton of respect for the post writer because of her actions. Which was sad because I had been one of her great supporters and she had also been put through the mill by the fandom.

The other side of the conversation was later posted reluctantly by Icy(EL James) as a means to show a clearer picture. I can't find the post, so I presume it's gone.

I, like a number of others often feel separated from the fandom. I often feel on the fringe of things because I'm not as active as I used to be, it doesn't mean I disrespect readers or use them.

There was a conversation in one of the communities recently about BNA(big named authors) in the fandom being inaccessible. Both of these ladies were considered BNAs. They were held up in the past as icons of the fandom and as a result set apart, where people expected their participation but didn't include them. When they did talk to the average reader or writer, they were often treated like celebrities. Looking back I can see how awkward and uneasy it made some feel and yes, I can see it would be easier to deal with when being paid for it.
 

heza

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I actually agree everything except keeping it accessible. For the record I haven't come across a pulled Twi fic that isn't accessible through the fandom. And if this book was selling a story featuring Edward and Bella or in the universe of Twilight, I would agree selling it is wrong but it's not. There are two different characters in a very different world.

My suspicion is that once a story is pretty big, someone or other has copied it somewhere. I'm rethinking my statement about keeping it accessible. My thinking on it isn't as pure as I'd first assumed. I've fic in two different places, and I'm going to migrate one fic (from LJ to FF) so they're both in the same venue. Does that mean I'm violating my social contract with LJ users?

I only wish the group I referred to was small and vocal. :)

I do wonder a lot, though, what percentage of the fandom certain groups represent. I think it's impossible to really know because there isn't a good way to definitively measure the population. It could just be those hundred people screaming on the blog, or they could represent thousands of like minded fans. Again, my fandom isn't all that big (plus, it's old), so I think our screamers represent pretty much themselves.


The other side of the conversation was later posted reluctantly by Icy(EL James) as a means to show a clearer picture. I can't find the post, so I presume it's gone.

Do you remember what she said in her defense. I've seen people saying she doesn't deserve the vitriole and that she didn't do the things people are saying, but I haven't really seen anything that she actually said being even paraphrased anywhere (unless it's in those long comments and I just haven't gotten to it).


There was a conversation in one of the communities recently about BNA(big named authors) in the fandom being inaccessible. Both of these ladies were considered BNAs. They were held up in the past as icons of the fandom and as a result set apart, where people expected their participation but didn't include them. When they did talk to the average reader or writer, they were often treated like celebrities. Looking back I can see how awkward and uneasy it made some feel and yes, I can see it would be easier to deal with when being paid for it.

With my fandom being so small, I don't think we're capable of habing BNFs (now I'm seeing both terms--do you mean authors of fic or authors who have undergone a P2P?). We've got our resident "more popular" authors, but everyone's pretty darn accessible, provided they didn't wander away from the fandom already. With my meager readership, my fans feel free to contact me like we're besties (and I don't really mind it).

I see a little bit of an opposite thing happening, though, in that fans of a popular fic also feel free to make demands of it. (I guess that's part of them feeling like they own a piece of it). I got schooled recently on the way I formatted my fic. I wasn't miffed, but I had a thought along the lines of "come on, people, you're getting free entertainment. I work really hard on the content, is it really crucial I format the way you want?" That's minor though. I wonder if there's any element of that going on with BNFs, getting a larger following resulting in a larger percentage of demanding fans, and whether that distances them from the fandom, as well.
 

gothicangel

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It's a bit ironic that this is all happening based on Twilight, a book that a lot of people have said is poorly written itself. So the 'not fair' thing seems to be several layers deep. It's 'not fair' that Meyer was successful, and then super 'not fair' that this woman is successful, and...

Yeah, I guess it's not fair. But this is publishing, not pre-school. If we start expecting fairness, we're going to have a hell of a lot of frustration.

I don't think I've ever thought of it being 'not fair' the SM got published. I dislike the book on the basis of the content of the book. My undergrad interest was in Gothic, we studied SM alongside Ann Rice, and a critical theory book called 'The Vampire Defanged.'

Neither do I think it's 'not fair' the '50's' author has a deal. Why not? Because like SM, she has an obvious market, which I'm not a part of. What concerns me is the evident increased risk adversion of the industry.

What I do take exception to, is the 'your just jeloose' argument. I'm not writing for SM's market. What have I to be jealous of exactly?
 

Alitriona

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My suspicion is that once a story is pretty big, someone or other has copied it somewhere. I'm rethinking my statement about keeping it accessible. My thinking on it isn't as pure as I'd first assumed. I've fic in two different places, and I'm going to migrate one fic (from LJ to FF) so they're both in the same venue. Does that mean I'm violating my social contract with LJ users?

They don't have to be that big in Twific, they don't even have to be finished and someone will usually have it. I don't know about the LJ users. To be honest, I view it much like book writing in that it's impossible to please everyone so you have to do what's right for you.



Do you remember what she said in her defense. I've seen people saying she doesn't deserve the vitriole and that she didn't do the things people are saying, but I haven't really seen anything that she actually said being even paraphrased anywhere (unless it's in those long comments and I just haven't gotten to it).

The conversation was more balanced and showed it wasn't as heavy handed or snarky as it first seemed. Like I said, I can't actually find it so quoting it would be hearsay. I'm sure if someone can find it they will link it.




With my fandom being so small, I don't think we're capable of habing BNFs (now I'm seeing both terms--do you mean authors of fic or authors who have undergone a P2P?). We've got our resident "more popular" authors, but everyone's pretty darn accessible, provided they didn't wander away from the fandom already. With my meager readership, my fans feel free to contact me like we're besties (and I don't really mind it).

BNA is an author in the Twi fandom with a massive following, such as authors of Masters of the Universe or Wide Awake. The ones who could make or break another author with one comment. It's a little more even these days and I think in that respect at least no one author is set up on a pedestal so high it hurts to fall off.
 

Cyia

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MotU definitely still exists in its original form for download online. (And, as a fanfic, it's not something she could claim "piracy" of, since it was free in the first place, and meant for open distribution.)

Most popular fanfictions are archived off the main sites by fans, even those of smaller fandoms.
 

bearilou

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What I do take exception to, is the 'your just jeloose' argument. I'm not writing for SM's market. What have I to be jealous of exactly?

Same but for a different reason.

I 'grew up' in the fandom culture where a fanfic writer just didn't sell their fanfiction. Ever. Didn't matter if it was AU, AH, Wingfic, MPREG...anything at all.

If you wrote it meaning it to be fanfic, to share with the fandom, it stayed in the realm of the free and firmly in the area of fanfiction. No scrubbing names and canon facts. It started out as fanfic. That was its beginnings and its intentions.

Call me right or wrong, call me out-dated or unreasonable, call me unflexible or whatever. But it does not stem from any sense of jealousy. When I was in fandom, it simply wasn't done and any fan who did was called on it in short order. I suspect a lot of fans still hold to this, that it's not just me and that's why we're seeing the issue all fluffed up.

Times may have changed and goody goody whatever. For me, it's simply Not. Done. Period. and that's why I am disappoint, son.
 

KalenO

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Same but for a different reason.

I 'grew up' in the fandom culture where a fanfic writer just didn't sell their fanfiction. Ever. Didn't matter if it was AU, AH, Wingfic, MPREG...anything at all.

If you wrote it meaning it to be fanfic, to share with the fandom, it stayed in the realm of the free and firmly in the area of fanfiction. No scrubbing names and canon facts. It started out as fanfic. That was its beginnings and its intentions.

Oh, ditto. I wrote and was active in fanfic communities for years, and the FAN part was always more important than the fic part. If you were writing it for any reason other than the sheer enjoyment of playing off of your favorite characters and stories, it was something else altogether as far as I'm concerned.
 

KathleenD

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if bdsm was going to go mainstream, did it have to go mainstream in such bad fashion? There are legitimate and incredibly talented erotica writers who treat this subject accurately. This book doesn't. It's a shame.

I remember when Exit to Eden was "outed" as being by Anne Rice. I want to say... late 80s? The book had been out a couple years, but I seem to recall some kind of big kerfluffle when it turned out the vampire lady had written something with whips and human saddles. Yeehaw.

At any rate, I also recall the BDSM community saying exactly the same thing at the time (though mainly in the pages of alternative weekly papers, that's how old I am, harumph harumph spit). "If something had to break through, why was it such a lousy version of the complex and nuanced scene." Then there was a brief flowering of people writing/buying "good" BDSM.

I guess the same thing's going to happen again. All the vanilla people reading 50 Shades who get a thrill will go looking for more, and the rising tides will lift all boats. Everyone wins.

I post fanfic with the understanding that I'm playing in someone else's world and that I'm not making any money off it. Out of a love for the source and to better my own abilities, I post my tribute, I guess, for the free enjoyment of others in the community. I think I agree to several other things, as well, when I do that: 1) to finish the fic, 2) to try to post quality work and endeavor to improve, 3) and to keep it accessible.

But that's just my personal "moral code" on the matter.

To say that your interpretation of something that is deliberately and intentionally outside of any rules is "moral" seems to imply that other interpretations are not. If you didn't mean that, I apologize right now for reading you incorrectly. :)

A considerable argument can be (and has been, over and over on this very forum) made that fanfic isn't "moral" at all. Writers of fanfic are playing with someone else's creation, period, full stop.

There just can't be any rules that matter when that's the starting point. Except one. The creator's opinion. If the author is fine with it (and because her lawyers aren't going insane right this minute, we must conclude that Meyer is fine with MOTU/50S), then anything goes.

The only responsibility a fanfic writer has is to respect her readers and give them the best story she is capable of writing. If that best turns out to be worth money in the open market, and has its own originality (i.e., nothing's the same but character names, see below), that writer's next responsibility is to herself.

BNA is an author in the Twi fandom with a massive following, such as authors of Masters of the Universe or Wide Awake. The ones who could make or break another author with one comment. It's a little more even these days and I think in that respect at least no one author is set up on a pedestal so high it hurts to fall off.

I have been working with internet communities as my profession since the 90s, and I can say without any hesitation that "make or break" is (was?) drastically overstating the case. All of these things are a tempest in a teapot, and a very, very small teapot at that.

I've seen this exact scenario play out in communities for woodcrafters, fans of the 1965 Impala, video game fans, and needlepointers. Want to bet the longtimers here can name a dozen incidents? Fanfic is not even remotely unique.

One big fish in a small puddle with delusions of grandeur makes a comment, and the new fry is ruined? Can't create a new identity? Can't find a new puddle? Can't laugh off the pretension? The whole mess is a lack of perspective, every time.

If you wrote it meaning it to be fanfic, to share with the fandom, it stayed in the realm of the free and firmly in the area of fanfiction. No scrubbing names and canon facts. It started out as fanfic. That was its beginnings and its intentions.

But what if it wasn't for that writer? What if it was a writing exercise? What if it just sparked a creative fire in someone's head, and they knew perfectly well that most people would read it and say something snotty and unfair like "can't you write something original"? Wouldn't it make sense for that writer to share the work with the only people who would read it for its own sake?

And if it turned out to be objectively good, why all the anger at someone who wants to leave the teapot and see what the rest of the world has to say?

The whole "canon" thing is just bizarre to me. A show/story bible only matters to contracted, paid writers working on assignment. Unless you're doing a job, you've got total free rein, and it seems like fanfic writers revel in that. I spent an idle evening poking around a Harry Potter fanfic site*. If I read a single story that was in ANY WAY canon, I'll sit here and eat my copy of Book 7**. Most of the stories were so divorced from the books that I wouldn't have known they were fanfic without the names.

Given that, filing off the serial numbers off the best and trying to sell 'em sounds to me like nothing but good sense.

(*I was so glad I wasn't the only one with dirty pictures of Snape in my head. Saved me the trouble of writing any of it down.)

(**Maybe I am making a joke about some sections being dry and without flavor.)
 

bearilou

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And if it turned out to be objectively good, why all the anger at someone who wants to leave the teapot and see what the rest of the world has to say?

Just offering my perspective. Sorry if it's not logical enough for everyone. This is how it was when I was in fandom so I'm understanding where people are a bit aghast that an author wrote something that was playing in someone else's sandbox, co-opting their characters and their worlds to tell other stories within the same milieu and then deciding that that fanfiction wasn't 'reeeeaaaally' fanfiction.

Leaving aside all the debates about fandom contracts between members and authors and readers in fandoms and what who owes where and why and when, it's really a simple fact that some adhere to. There are a few out there who believe if you wrote it for fandom? If you used an author's creations to make other stories? If you used their characters as paper dolls to dress up and pose around in silly poses? If you created something to be a part of the culture of fandom? It's fanfiction and authors shouldn't make money on it. They shouldn't try to sell Russet Moon with all the characters and canon details in place, they shouldn't smear the names and the world details around so that it's 'not recognizable', because it started out as fanfiction.

Is it rational? Maybe to some. Maybe not to others. But to those to whom it makes sense, this is why they are objecting.

The whole "canon" thing is just bizarre to me. A show/story bible only matters to contracted, paid writers working on assignment. Unless you're doing a job, you've got total free rein, and it seems like fanfic writers revel in that. I spent an idle evening poking around a Harry Potter fanfic site*. If I read a single story that was in ANY WAY canon, I'll sit here and eat my copy of Book 7**. Most of the stories were so divorced from the books that I wouldn't have known they were fanfic without the names.

Your experience is not the whole of fandom experience. I've read some fanfiction that with the names globally replaced it still read like fanfiction because the author didn't do enough scrubbing to remove other 'canon' references that marked it as uniquely belonging in the fandom. That's what I meant by canon. Not whatever you were talking about the show/story bible being contracted or *waves hands*

Given that, filing off the serial numbers off the best and trying to sell 'em sounds to me like nothing but good sense.

Excellent. Makes sense to you. As I said, there are others in fandom who don't believe that. No amount of flapping around and saying "BUT BUT BUT" is going to change their mind. Just like none of their flapping around and saying "BUT BUT BUT" is going to change yours.

But the difference of opinion is still going to be there. Some of us are still going to go by the things they had sort of understood were implicit agreements when they first entered fandom and feel still stand today. If it was fanfic before? You don't try to repackage and sell now.

And that part doesn't make us bitter and/or jealous writers who are sucking on sour grapes, which is what I was trying to address in my comment.
 
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Cyia

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Oh, ditto. I wrote and was active in fanfic communities for years, and the FAN part was always more important than the fic part. If you were writing it for any reason other than the sheer enjoyment of playing off of your favorite characters and stories, it was something else altogether as far as I'm concerned.


Exactly. And endangering the entire fandom by flaunting a fanfic once it's been legitimately published is the height of disrespect for the fandom which built the platform you're standing on.

There's nothing wrong with a fanfiction writer who breaks into commercial publishing, and there's nothing wrong with them taking their fans with them, BUT there is absolutely something wrong with creating a situation wherein the original writer and his/her publisher may have no choice other than to crack down on all the fanfiction writers for fear of copycats who try to publish non-AU material.

(I know that hasn't happened yet, but if I were active in the Twilight fandom, it would be ticking me off.)
 

KathleenD

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There are a few out there who believe if you wrote it for fandom? If you used an author's creations to make other stories? If you used their characters as paper dolls to dress up and pose around in silly poses? If you created something to be a part of the culture of fandom? It's fanfiction and authors shouldn't make money on it. They shouldn't try to sell Russet Moon with all the characters and canon details in place, they shouldn't smear the names and the world details around so that it's 'not recognizable', because it started out as fanfiction.

Is it rational? Maybe to some. Maybe not to others. But to those to whom it makes sense, this is why they are objecting.

Yeah, I can see that. By the time I was even aware of fanfic at all, I suspect some of that purity of intent was lost. Or it could be I'm extrapolating TOO much from my own experiences (fanfic/net community) and not being fair, because I didn't exactly immerse myself in the culture. Either way, you know more about it it than I do.


That's what I meant by canon. Not whatever you were talking about the show/story bible being contracted or *waves hands*

I was off on a random tangent, inspired by the word "canon," not your use of it. Sorry about that... /blush
 

DancingMaenid

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Still really not getting this. Sitting here literally scratching my head. How did she manipulate fellow writers? By chatting to them on a forum or something, or by writing books they might enjoy...? Do you feel that being part of a writing community that you're not deeply, selflessly in love with is somehow dishonest? And I still don't see why there's anything wrong with 'not putting much effort in' to her craft and yet getting a book deal. You don't get book deals on the basis of effort, you get them on the basis of the product of that effort. Lots of people clearly like what she's written.

Well, as others have pointed out, there is the possibility that she purposely tried to hook readers by giving them what they were looking for (Twilight fan fiction) and then pulling a bait and switch. If so, that seems kind of dishonest.

But, also, based on my experience with fandom, I feel like there's something weird about an "outsider" who's not really that into the fandom coming in and participating because they think it can benefit them. While not everyone is going to care about fandom in the same way, I think there is an idea that the one thing that ties us all together is that we're involved for the love of it. We're just fans. It's a hobby. And in my experience, people in fandom can be skeptical of people coming in and exploiting the fan community for the purposes of gaining something.

The whole "canon" thing is just bizarre to me. A show/story bible only matters to contracted, paid writers working on assignment. Unless you're doing a job, you've got total free rein, and it seems like fanfic writers revel in that. I spent an idle evening poking around a Harry Potter fanfic site*. If I read a single story that was in ANY WAY canon, I'll sit here and eat my copy of Book 7**. Most of the stories were so divorced from the books that I wouldn't have known they were fanfic without the names.

Eh, this really isn't something you can generalize on. Fandoms differ a lot on what types of stories are popular, and a fandom as big as Harry Potter has a lot of different types and genres depending on where you look.

Lately, it seems like AUs have gotten to be more popular in a lot of the hot fandoms at the moment. But not everyone likes AU fanfiction. In my circles, some people hate it. I'm more neutral, but I rarely read stories that don't take place in the canon setting, at least. For me, most of the appeal of fanfiction is to explore that world and the characters. I wrote one AU that did take place in a totally different setting, but even then, I tried to make the story mirror canon.

For me, the free rein is more in being able to explore canon to my heart's content.
 

Torgo

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Well, as others have pointed out, there is the possibility that she purposely tried to hook readers by giving them what they were looking for (Twilight fan fiction) and then pulling a bait and switch. If so, that seems kind of dishonest.

Still can't see this. She gave them Twilight fan fiction - for free. They read and enjoyed it. There's no bait and switch involved because she hasn't sold them anything. Her readers aren't 'hooked' in any sense beyond liking her writing; if they don't want to read anything but Twilight fanfic, there's no obligation on them to follow her into the mainstream.

If I start off writing SF, and build up a fan base, and then switch to writing Westerns, it's not really clear to me that is a bait and switch or dishonest at all; I might annoy my SF fans, but the creative and business decisions surely are mine.

But, also, based on my experience with fandom, I feel like there's something weird about an "outsider" who's not really that into the fandom coming in and participating because they think it can benefit them. While not everyone is going to care about fandom in the same way, I think there is an idea that the one thing that ties us all together is that we're involved for the love of it. We're just fans. It's a hobby. And in my experience, people in fandom can be skeptical of people coming in and exploiting the fan community for the purposes of gaining something.

This I can see. Fandom is about affinity; messing with that, behaving in a manner that is outside the subcultural norms is a social faux pas. But I think there's also an aspect here of the second favourite pastime of any fandom being inter-fan wank. The kinds of things that get people hot under the collar in fan communities often seem trivial if you're on the outside I guess.
 

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This I can see. Fandom is about affinity; messing with that, behaving in a manner that is outside the subcultural norms is a social faux pas. But I think there's also an aspect here of the second favourite pastime of any fandom being inter-fan wank.


Bingo.

This entire episode smacks of grudgewank. I'm betting a lot of the folks pushing the "burn-her-for-she-hath-offended-fandom!' agenda (I do not mean people in this thread) had a grudge against this author before she got a publishing deal.

As for building a fanbase with ulterior motives: so what? We're talking about fandom here, not some noble pure thing with a code of ethics and thou-shalt-nots. So what if she was just "using" Twilight fandom to become popular? She wrote a story a lot of people liked - she gave them value for their moneyattention. And she capitalized on it to get a publishing deal. If her crappy book doesn't sell, or if she can't write any more books that sell, she's had her moment in the sun.

Jeez. Fandom is SRS BZNS!
 
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