The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Sassenach · Mar 1, 2005

A suggestion.

Perhaps a parallel thread--PA HUMOR--should be established, thus keeping this one more on point, and useful for those interested in keeping abreast of PA issues.

CaoPaux · Mar 1, 2005

The only place LSI enters into the PA story is if they print a book that PA doesn't have the rights to -- and then they're witnesses, not co-conspirators.

Likewise, PA has adamantly denied it receives any information on number of books printed, therefore they can't give authors any figures. Yet, IIRC, LSI sends statements to their clients at least bi-monthly. 2+2=....

CaoPaux · Mar 1, 2005

And I second the motion for a PA Humor thread. Things are getting lost in here. :Lecture:

Literary Lola · Mar 1, 2005

JohnGalt said:
I don't understand why nobody has had anything to say about my previous post. I'll post it again, and then I'll quit trying.

From what I've gathered here, Lightning Source prints PA's books. I understand that LS prints a bunch of other stuff that has nothing to do with PA.

Questions:
1) Where would PA be without LS?
2) Why hasn't LS seen the light and dropped PA as a client? Based on the numbers I've seen here, PA couldn't possibly be a big client.
3) Why has LS been above reproach so far? If you ask me, they are complicit in PA's scam.

If you want to stop PA from scamming people, convince Lightning Source to stop conspiring to scam people.

Am I bringing up a taboo subject or something? Why are those who want to stop PA from scamming people mute on the subject of Lightning Source?

Sorry for posting this again, but I would greatly appreciate an answer from somebody who is actively involved in the fight against PA.

- JG

John, LSI has nothing to do with PA only to print their books. That's it. They aren't in the postion to convince anyone to do anything. They receive an order and fill it and issue a bill. It's not a taboo subject, but more of a non-subject.

They're a printer. Provided a customer's money is green and legal there is no reason for LSI not to do business with the Devil himself, let alone PA. LSI has broken no laws by doing business with PA. It doesn't matter if PA or anyone else is a large client. It's supply and demand; plain and simple - PA puts in a order and LSI fills it.

Personally, I can't stand LSI because I see their work as being inferior and shoddy.

As to where PA would be without LSI - exactly where they are, only they'd use another printer. Big deal. Like I said, it's a non subject.

Renee · Mar 1, 2005

Hey Kevin,

I was going to ask why I didn't get a bigger scene (during my last comment) then I see "A jaw dropping scene where much is revealed....Renee2D2."

I think everyone has officially seen enough of me now..lmfao..

KellyS. · Mar 1, 2005

HapiSofi said:
Moondancer said:RealityChuck replied:They're unquestionably using stock art, except for cases where the author supplies the cover mechanical. You can see that just by looking at a week's worth of covers.

The question that interests me is how PA selects the stock images they use.

Nothing I've ever heard about PA's procedures has indicated that PA staffers above the level of "editor" (i.e., text formatter) read the manuscripts. We know that PA uses essentially the same press release for every title they publish. They customize it by inserting the author, title, and author's hometown, but they don't say anything that's specific to the book's content. We also know that PA makes authors write their own cover copy.

<snip>

Let's hear it for expert marketing and packaging!

I always figured that they read the blurb destined for the back cover of my book. I never filled in a questionnaire that I recall. They did fairly well with my cover, although the age of the shadow person depicted should have been older. I let it go because I figured that it would take forever for any change. I shouldn't have let it go though.

Diana Hignutt · Mar 1, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
Not all posts get answers. They're read with interest, I assure you, but I'm not under a compulsion to hit the Send key.

Because LSI is an innocent player, like the telephone company that provides the lines that PA uses to take orders.

You ask:

Questions:
1) Where would PA be without LS?

LS isn't the only digital printer in the world

2) Why hasn't LS seen the light and dropped PA as a client? Based on the numbers I've seen here, PA couldn't possibly be a big client.

PA is a tiny client. If PA vanished tomorrow, LSI wouldn't notice. But ... the business practices of the people who are providing the digital files LSI is printing, or the literary quality of the books, isn't their concern. They're a printer. Their job starts when someone gives them a file, and stops when they shipped the finished units. What light is for them to see? As long a PA's checks clear, LSI will print their books.

3) Why has LS been above reproach so far? If you ask me, they are complicit in PA's scam.

I don't see it. PA is guilty of false and misleading advertising. That isn't LSI's concern.

If you want to stop PA from scamming people, convince Lightning Source to stop conspiring to scam people.

LSI isn't conspiring to scam people. They state a price for a book, they get the price, they deliver the book. What PA is asking them to do is legal, what they're doing is legal.

Whether PA pays royalties on time, or correctly, or at all, isn't their concern -- just like it isn't their concern with any other publisher who contracts their services. The only place LSI enters into the PA story is if they print a book that PA doesn't have the rights to -- and then they're witnesses, not co-conspirators.

With all due respect Mr. Macdonald, I disagree with a few of your comments. I do think there could come a point when LSI could bear some culpability. Just because something is legal doesn't make it morally clear. I would think that when it comes to the point that EVERYBODY in the world knows that PublishAmerica is a scam, then LSI could not escape guilt by complicity. But wait...if PA's bad reputation was general knowledge...then what would the excuse of the authors who signed with them? I take it back. I agree with you.

diana

Patricia · Mar 1, 2005

LS Morals

If LS were to be held responsible for the morals of customers--they would have to discontinue service to more than PA. LS is in the business of service and as long as they get paid for said service they are obliged to perform the service to the customers they accept.

I would venture to say that LS is well aware of what is going on.

I think we need to stay focused on the task at hand, and that is usng the information and tools we know can work in our favor to help bring PA down.

Deleted member 42 · Mar 1, 2005

Sheryl Nantus said:
now, the distribution of said books is where the trouble starts - remember that thread awhile back about some author who yet AGAIN couldn't get books to a bookstore who actually wanted to have a booksigning???

This is sheer speculation on my part, but I've done business with LS via two different software companies; with one company, they had an account and simply paid within thirty days of invoice. And there were sometimes set up fees if the trim size or anything was non-standard.

The other company had to pay in advance of books being printed (I think this was because it was a much large order). So if there had been a cash crunch at the company, so that the order couldn't be paid in advance, then there wouldn't have been any books printed, and they'd lose their place in the print queue. (We would be told when our books would be printed, so we could arrange to stuff the air boxes, etc.).

KellyS. · Mar 1, 2005

I was looking for my author's questionnaire. I couldn't find it, but I found something I thought interesting.

This email is dated
Thursday, September 11, 2003 8:13 AM

From: Author Support Team <[email protected]>
Subject: Good News. And More Good News

Dear Author,
We have much good news to share.

PublishAmerica continues to grow faster than any other traditional publisher, and today we are apparently the most popular publisher among new authors. More than 50 new authors contact us every day, hoping to join you as a PublishAmerica author. That's more than 12,000 hopefuls per year. At least 80 percent of them never make it to the "published author" status, because they don't pass our acquisitions process, but that does not seem to discourage anyone from submitting their work to us in ever growing, and frankly astonishing, numbers. We read every single submission before we accept or refuse.

Our operations are expanding. Last month we opened a third office, we are hiring more staff, and we are sending out an average 10-15 press releases about our new titles and authors every day.

Virtually no day goes by without PublishAmerica being in the news. Among the celebrities that have recently been congratulating PublishAmerica an its authors are First Lady Laura Bush and Second Lady Lynne Cheney. An increasing number of our authors have recently been or will soon be on national TV, including celebrity actor Jamie Farr who will promote his new book on the Hollywood Squares show next month.

To celebrate all this good news, we are offering our authors two things.

First, here is our September special discount schedule for gift stores that we now also extend to our authors:
1-20 books: 30 percent discount
21-50 books: 35 percent discount
51-100 books: 45 percent discount
101-150 books: 50 percent discount
151-250 books: 50 percent discount, plus free shipping on US orders
251+ books: 55 percent discount, plus free shipping on US orders

This schedule expires Sept. 30. Full-color books excluded. Place your order by phone at 240-529-1031.

Secondly, we will soon launch a showcase website for all of our authors, called PublishedAuthors.net. It will give individual web pages to each and every author, highlighting them and their books. The content of these pages will be edited by the author individually, and password protected. Not only that, but it will also give every author their own e-mail address, @publishedauthors.net. This innovative new service will be free, of course, as you have come to expect from PublishAmerica.

Watch your email in the next few weeks for our formal announcement!

I did make the statement bold in the first paragraph.

JohnGalt · Mar 1, 2005

Thanks for the responses, people. I wouldn't have asked the question if I already knew the answer.

I still think Lightning Source is complicit in the PA scam. Although LS may simply be a printer, it does have the option to turn away business.

"Hi, Lightning Source, my name is John. Everybody in your industry knows that I make my money by scamming people. Will you help me do something unethical?"

"You betcha."

If LS isn't aware of what PA is doing, it should be. But that's just my opinion. I'll shut up now.

- JG

MacAllister · Mar 1, 2005

"Hi, Lightning Source, my name is John. Everybody in your industry knows that I make my money by scamming people. Will you help me do something unethical?"

The thing is, John, the printing industry and the publishing industry are NOT one and the same.

realitychuck · Mar 1, 2005

Ultimately, LSI is doing nothing wrong, legally or morally. They do exactly what they claim to do: print books on demand. They are not ripping off authors or misleading them. That's all PA.

And their job isn't to judge. They print whatever they are sent. If the books were evidence of some crime, they might contact authorities, but nothing in the PA books is evidence of any crime. Other than that, they're under no obligation to investigate clients so long as the client has the clear right to print the book.

Uncarved · Mar 1, 2005

Renee Bagley said:
Hey Kevin,

I was going to ask why I didn't get a bigger scene (during my last comment) then I see "A jaw dropping scene where much is revealed....Renee2D2."

I think everyone has officially seen enough of me now..lmfao..

*sniff* I haven't made a scene as of yet.... I'm hoping to be weilding a whip though if I do

akaa1a · Mar 1, 2005

Now, this is interesting!

I never knew that the 500 Independence books club only had limited returns. Here's what an author had to say:
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11721.htm

Message:
My book went into hardcover when it passed the 2,000 mark, but really, it's the paperbacks that sell.
It is an Independence title, returnable for a set period of time after a store orders (maybe 6 to 8 weeks, I forget).
If you click on "Online Bookstore" and look under choices, you'll see ten pages of Hardcover choices... so quite a few authors have reached that milestone.
Good luck!

Marvin Bartlett
~~~~~~~~~~
What happens to the books after that time frame?

KellyS. · Mar 1, 2005

tinasamuels said:
*sniff* I haven't made a scene as of yet.... I'm hoping to be weilding a whip though if I do

Wondering what is left after the whip. lol

Galoot · Mar 1, 2005

PA Humor

Pardon me. If Jenna or anyone else with moderating powers would be kind enough to delete my previous message I would thank them. Wearing a serious frown while doing do is strictly optional, but it would be appreciated.

Sher2 · Mar 1, 2005

KellyS. said:
Wondering what is left after the whip. lol

A bald head, a hole, chocolate syrup, and fire ants? :whip:

DaveKuzminski · Mar 1, 2005

Kelly, that's great! You just proved that Larry told another lie!

Literary Lola · Mar 1, 2005

Galoot said:
Pardon me. If Jenna or anyone else with moderating powers would be kind enough to delete my previous message I would thank them. Wearing a serious frown while doing do is strictly optional, but it would be appreciated.

Galoot, you can edit it yourself. There is an edit button at the bottom of your post. Simply press it and edit away.

Sher2 · Mar 1, 2005

Galoot said:
Pardon me. If Jenna or anyone else with moderating powers would be kind enough to delete my previous message I would thank them. Wearing a serious frown while doing do is strictly optional, but it would be appreciated.

Why, Galoot? I enjoyed your "press release." I thought it truly resonated. Seriously, anybody who's been mixed up with PA HAS to have SOME fun.

KellyS. · Mar 1, 2005

DaveKuzminski said:
Kelly, that's great! You just proved that Larry told another lie!

That was just another reason for my believing (mistakenly, of course) that people's manuscripts were actually read and accepted or rejected based upon that.

DeadlyAccurate · Mar 1, 2005

Galoot said:
Pardon me. If Jenna or anyone else with moderating powers would be kind enough to delete my previous message I would thank them. Wearing a serious frown while doing do is strictly optional, but it would be appreciated.

Just so you know, I thought it was a brilliant piece of satire. Absolutely perfect. I like that you managed to fit in engrams and Fair Game. Did I overlook the user of "suppressive persons?"

James D. Macdonald · Mar 1, 2005

There are, in fact, only six books in the Independence Books imprint. That's the number that have gotten press releases saying so, that's the number listed at Amazon, and that's the number confirmed by Miranda Prather in the Pro-PA Yahoo Mailing List a month or so ago, so I think that's pretty firm. I listed them a bit upstream from here.

The hardcover question -- IIRC at one time hardcover publication was offered to anyone who bought 100 copies. (FWIW, Lulu.com has the same deal.)

While you'll find a good number of hardcovers from PA at Amazon, many of them date from before the day Independence Books was announced, and a good number of them are listed as out of print/unavailable.

The Independence Books program (if memory serves -- I'm certain someone will look this up and correct me if I'm wrong) was to make books returnable. Those books that had sold over 500 copies would be considered, not automatically accepted, and whether books bought by the authors themselves would count has never been clarified.

Again if memory serves, the books would only be returnable through one chain (Walden's), they had maximum and minimum orders, they could only be ordered for cash in advance directly from PA (not through a distributor), and after 60 or 90 days could no longer be returned.

I expect that only a miniscule number of books have been sold on a returnable basis under this program. I believe that Independence Books' reason for existence was to provide the figleaf that some books are returnable, and motivate authors to buy yet more copies of their own books in hopes of catching that brass ring.

Like the now-discontinued New York Times ads, I'm not expecting any more Independence Books.

victoriastrauss · Mar 1, 2005

Administrative stuff

Please, people, in the interest of clutter-free reading, be parsimonious when quoting. You don't always need to include the entire post. Snipping is good! Thanks.

- The schoolmarm

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

5 W's & an H

Mostly Harmless

Mostly Harmless

*****

Very Tired

California Dreaming

Deleted member 42

*****

'Twas but a dream of thee

Hack Writer

I aim to misbehave

Giggle Collector

*****

I am a pretty pretty flower

Auroraless ExPAtriate

Preditors & Editors

Auroraless ExPAtriate

*****

Absolutely Fazed

Your Genial Uncle

Writer Beware Goddess