The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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ncq13

Re: NYT thoughts from the board

<.snip> from the author's market .net... A second caveat is that science-fiction and fantasy writers have it easier. It's unfair, but such is life. As a rule of thumb, the quality bar for sci-fi and fantasy is a lot lower than for all other fiction.</snip>
OUCH! Does this statement bother anyone else? Each sub-genre has its own nuances of style, its own flavor. Difference in style does not equal difference in standards. I irritates me when one group attempts to belittle another in order to further their own personal objectives.
</rant>
~Kate
 

FM St George

Re: Clue?

the sad thing is that when they DON'T see an increase in sales after this NYT ad comes out then they'll be sitting there with boxes of books in their living room wondering what they did wrong... instead of putting the blame on PA and their lying ways...

:p
 

DaveKuzminski

About the ad campaign

Of course, there's always the possibility that PA is trying this in an attempt to force bookstores in NY to order their books despite the no returns policy by creating a demand for their books. If enough customers ask for certain books, the stores might decide to take a risk on those thus giving PA a victory in one small skirmish.

However, I believe that their tactic is limited. They simply can't afford to spend that much in each significant market in order to cover the entire country.

As well, I'm interested in learning whether these ads are prepaid or payable after publication. If those ads are not prepaid and sales fail to materialize to cover the costs, the ad campaign could be the fatal straw.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: NYT thoughts from the board

Difference in style does not equal difference in standards.

That authorsmarket.net page has nothing to do with science fiction (other than their revealing woeful ignorance of the field).

It has to do with slamming Ann, Victoria, Dave, and me.

Well, tell you what -- don't believe the part of me that writes science fiction and fantasy. Believe the part of me that writes non-fiction, horror, and technothrillers, okay?

What PA is trying to do, trying to separate new writers from support mechanisms, is like what an abusive husband tries to do to his wife by tearing the phone out of the wall.

The science fiction community is very supportive of new and would-be writers. SF writers are close to their fans. That's what PublishAmerica is afraid of.

Oh -- and if someone knows what they're talking about concerning publishing, it doesn't matter if they've ever published a story in their lives. It's the quality of the information that counts.
 

KW

Authors market

There was a paragraph on that website that got me thinking.

"If advertising would launch a bestseller, they would spend the money in a heartbeat. Imagine, if it were only that simple, who would not happily spend a few thousand dollars on ads if it would bring hundreds of thousands in return?"

I could be wrong, but isn't this what PA is doing with the NYT ad?

Something else that makes me wonder.

"First books are rarely bought because the story catches on. They are bought because there is something about the author that fascinates the buyer."

How does this explain authors like Bentley Little who are very reclusive and hardly ever give interviews or let the world see him? Plus, what was so special about Stephen King? He didn't stand out, he was just an English teacher. His book stood out, not him. What about J.K. Rowling? What was so special about her? She was a single mother, that's it. Her book stood out, not her.

And this statement, which they say over and over, really made me laugh.

"Stop being a writer, and become a salesman."

Are they telling you stop writing and become a salesman? Now why would they do this? They want you to push the book you have out and make them money. If we spend all of our time trying to promote our book we will not have time to write another, but they don't care do they?

"Almost 18 percent of all books are sold through book clubs,"

Well, if they know this then why didn't they pick up the idea that I, and other PA authors, sent them. We had everything worked out for them already. A book club, even one just for PA authors and their family and friends, would make PA a lot of money.

" Author Stephen King pioneered the technology by selfpublishing his "Riding the Bullet"in e-format a few years ago, and sold a few hundred thousand copies, but this has remained an isolated incident, and not a very indicative one. After all, there is only one Stephen King and, moreover, the "book" counted no more than 66 pages. The average fiction book counts 225 pages."

I guess they forgot his "The Plant" which was also an ebook. Though not finished, it is a bit longer than 66 pages. They aren't one to tell the whole truth though are they?

"Even the staunchest tree huggers who want to write a book, for example about protecting the environment, would prefer to see it in print."

Tree huggers? Not very PC of them.

" Do they actually sell? No, they don't, not by the thousands, and generally not even by the hundreds. People don't like reading e-books the same way they like reading printed books," "Trade paperbacks have replaced the vast majority of first hardcover editions, and e-book releases are now replacing what used to be the cheap paperback edition."

Well, they say ebooks don't sell, but then turn around and say that ebooks are replacing cheap paperback editions. If ebooks didn't sell then why would they be replacing paperback editions? Do they sell or not? As for trade paperbacks replacing hardcover? I don't think so. You still see a lot more hardcover books than you do trade. Most new authors start out as mass market and if the author catches on their next book will be made available in hardback.

"Some writers have built a name for themselves by writing spin-offs of hugely popular movies, such as Star Trek, after all the characters and story parameters had been handed to them on a silver plate by the story owners who licensed the merchandising rights to a publisher. It requires some talent, but not too much, to write such a book."

This is basically a slap in the face, not only to Crispin but to Friedman, Mack, Ward, Shatner, Greenburg, Krauss and Golden and any other Trek writer out there. But I guess these people are not good writers, just because PA says so.:rollin

"There are some others who, particularly in the field of Fantasy, rewrite all but everything under the sun that has already been written before. They rummage through books on mythology, steal a character here, borrow a plot line there, throw in a wizard from King Arthur, and literally loot all the mythologies ever written."

Isn't there a saying in the literary world that goes something like this--'every story has already been told, there is just variations of those.'

"In the book industry, being published as an e-book writer amounts to not being published at all."

In the book industry, being published by PA is not being published at all.

"It happens, and alarmingly it happens more and more. Generally not to POD books, though. When books come apart, it is usually an offset product. Not only that, it is usually a book from a major publishing house, such as Warner, HarperCollins, TOR, Simon&Schuster, Little Brown, St. Martin's, and the blacklist also includes the entire Harry Potter series by Scholastic."

This leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I have only had two books fall apart on me. One was used and about 10 years old, the other had pictures in the front of the book and one of them fell out. Besides those two, this has never been a problem for me. I have heard of PA authors getting an order of books that were falling apart, so this goes to show that it isn't just a problem for print run books. Doesn't the publishers mentioned refund your money or give you another book if this happens? Will PA do that?

A few people had told me to be careful about the fake mss I sent to PA. Saying they could sue me for making them lose money by keeping authors away from them. Well, this statement, from Authorsmarket could be used against them by the so called big publishers.

"There is a variety of options for you. First of all, check out one of those publishers listings. Your local library carries them. Focus on finding very small publishers only."

Here they are telling authors to only submit to small publishers and not the big ones. This could keep people away from the big boys and cause them to lose money, so the big publishers should sue them for making them lose money.

Kevin
 

ncq13

Re: Authors market

"Do they actually sell? No, they don't, not by the thousands"

Actually, Ellora's Cave (e-book erotica) is now an RWA accepted publisher, meaning it has sold substantial amounts of single title works. PA has not yet accomplished this in the romance market. While Ellora's Cave is only ONE out of many e-book publishers, I think that their success demands mention here.

Additionally, Uncle Jim, thank you for shedding some light on the SF/F issue.

~Kate
 

XThe NavigatorX

Re: The Old Story Again

I had read somewhere that Ellora's Cave's bestselling author pulls in 20K+ a quarter in royalties. If I could write chick e-porn, I'd be all over that.
 

CaoPaux

Re: The Old Story Again

From the second thread:

"Speaking of the no-return policy, I happened to be in a Waldens recently, and a new author walked in with her just-released book. She said the publisher is new, and is an independant one, but during the conversation, it came out that it was not a print-on-demand and that the publisher offers returns. The manager looked up the ISBN, and the woman and manager began discussing stocking the book, AND scheduling a signing. Something to envy, huh?
The whole time I'm thinking that the "NEW AUTHOR" thing might be a detriment. It wasn't. It appears that book merchants are open to new work, even small publishers, but the key is good discounts and returnability."

--------
*resists inserting 48-point, flashing purple "d'oh"*
 

James D Macdonald

Re: The Old Story Again

Well, two out of four are gone already. Bet Stacee's password has stopped working.

Hi, Stacee -- when you find your way over here, welcome.
 

AnneMarble

PA and SF Writers

<.snip> from the author's market .net... A second caveat is that science-fiction and fantasy writers have it easier. It's unfair, but such is life. As a rule of thumb, the quality bar for sci-fi and fantasy is a lot lower than for all other fiction.</snip>
OUCH! Does this statement bother anyone else? Each sub-genre has its own nuances of style, its own flavor. Difference in style does not equal difference in standards. I irritates me when one group attempts to belittle another in order to further their own personal objectives.

What this translates to is:
James D. Macdonald, Victoria Strauss, Ann Crispin, Brenda Clough, Dave, and many of the other pros who warn writers about scams are science fiction and/or fantasy writers.

Ergo PA hopes that newbies will read that passage (and that other hideous page on that site about SF and fantasy writers) and believe that if the information comes from an SF or fantasy writer, it must be wrong. (And I'm sure some people really do believe that !@#$ and think that SF/fantasy writers have it easy, are protecting their field, etc. Which of course makes no sense and even contradicts much of the "info" on that site.)

One hopes aspiring SF and fantasy writers read that page and instead go :bang or at least :gone avoid PA. I remember that when that site first went up, someone on PA's boards gave it a glowing review, and at least one of PublishAmerica's SF and fantasy writers read that site and was just a ... bit... offended.
 

AnneMarble

Re: Authors market

I guess they forgot his "The Plant" which was also an ebook. Though not finished, it is a bit longer than 66 pages. They aren't one to tell the whole truth though are they?

Heck, I guess they forgot about Project Gutenberg. Also, there were several indie e-book publishers in existence before Stephen King put out "The Plant." But they will never let the facts get in the way of a good carp.

"It happens, and alarmingly it happens more and more. Generally not to POD books, though. When books come apart, it is usually an offset product. Not only that, it is usually a book from a major publishing house, such as Warner, HarperCollins, TOR, Simon&Schuster, Little Brown, St. Martin's, and the blacklist also includes the entire Harry Potter series by Scholastic."

This leaves a bad taste in my mouth...

Well of course books that come apart are usually offset products. That's because most books are printed on offset presses. :shrug And the Harry Potter books? They come apart because kids read them over and over again. But they are durable to begin with. How do I know? I had a copy of a hardback Harry Potter book in my car when a gallon of bleach decided to leak. :eek The Harry Potter book looked horrible -- but the pages still held together, even after bleach damage. It was in better shape than the carpet thingie in my car.

"There are some others who, particularly in the field of Fantasy, rewrite all but everything under the sun that has already been written before. They rummage through books on mythology, steal a character here, borrow a plot line there, throw in a wizard from King Arthur, and literally loot all the mythologies ever written."

Isn't there a saying in the literary world that goes something like this--'every story has already been told, there is just variations of those.'

And there are only three basic plots (unless you're Georges Polti (sp!), in which case there are thirty-eight), etc.

IIRC the part about fantasy authors "looting" mythology was a dig at Victoria Strauss. The moderator of this board. :hail

They're also being hypocritical here. They praise Tolkien, who borrowed from mythology. Yet they criticize Victoria Strauss, who borrows from mythology. Hellooo? I suppose if Tolkien were still alive and had an anti-PA site, they would carp on him, too. :rofl
 

Savannah Blue

The Old Story Again

It's just a little after 1 pm and two of the 4 threads above are already gone. |I There's a new one though: Publish America - Author Message Board

I wasn't around when most of you made your escape from PA and I was wondering if you could tell me something. It looks, on the messages board at least, like there is a rebelion in the works by some of the new people. When you regulars here left, was it the same way then? Were you as vocal on the message boards?

I was also wondering if PA is finding themselves in a quandry now. Forums such as this one and Mindsight are much easier to find now than they were even 3 or 4 months ago when I started looking into PA. So, what will PA do? Ban all of these new guys and run them into the waiting arms of boards like this one, or try to work it out with them? There's no doubt in my mind that the anit-PA movement is growing stronger by the day. It looks to me like there isn't going to be time for any type of retaliation by the 'disgruntled' authors, PA is going to run itself into the ground, and soon.

**Please know I use the term 'disgruntled' very much tounge in cheek!**

SB
 

DaveKuzminski

Just a thought

It almost seems as if a new forum starts up for every ten authors that PA bans.
 

SRHowen

hmm

I had read somewhere that Ellora's Cave's bestselling author pulls in 20K+ a quarter in royalties. If I could write chick e-porn, I'd be all over that.

I can write that stuff, but I'd like to see numbers suporting that -- any idea where you saw that?

Shawn
 

lindylou45

Now I'm mad!

I have been trying to get in touch with Lee Foster with Lightning Source so I could find out how many of my books have been printed. When I finally got her on the phone today she indicated that she had contacted PA and they told her she was not to give out ANY information to ANY PA AUTHOR! The author is to be referred to PA. :head

Now, the last correspondence I had with PA, I was told that any future correspondence from me would be discarded unread. So, if I contact PA regarding how many books have been printed and they lie about everything else, what are my chances that they are going to tell me the truth about this? If they even bother to read the correspondence that is. I wish I had never heard of this piece of crap publisher! >: :bang

I hope they are enjoying their little games, because the rules are about to change!
 

staceeminer

Re: More PA woes, straight from a PA author's mouth...

oh yeah, they banned me pretty quick! Pretty cowardly I thought....it was a valid discussion.
Stacee
 

FM St George

Re: Authors market

*waves*

hi, there! Welcome!

glad you found us...

*wink, wink*

:)
 

XThe NavigatorX

Re: NYT thoughts from the board

SR -

Sure. Lemmee see what I can dig up. I doubt I can find the original article since it was about 9 months ago.

<search>

K, can't find the article, but I remember it very clearly. I would never have remembered the name Ellora's Cave otherwise. I did find this article, however:

www.weeklyplanet.com/2004...cover.html

Ellora's Cave currently publishes print-on-demand books and recently closed a deal with Waldenbooks and Borders to carry books in all their stores across the nation. However, the company intends to remain largely an e-book publisher. "We have over 100 authors, and we pay them well," says Patty. Ellora's Cave pays 37.5 percent of the cover price on e-books that sell for $2.95 to $9.99 and print books priced from $8.99 to $15.99 each. "Some sell 1,000 copies the first week." Last year, Ellora's Cave paid authors almost half a million dollars in royalties. Some authors now make enough money to quit their jobs and live on their writing. "Some write one or two books a year," says Patty; "some write one or two a month."
 

XThe NavigatorX

Re: The Old Story Again

lol. Hi Stacee. How'd you find this place so quick?
 

Sher2

Re: More PA woes, straight from a PA author's mouth...

<oh yeah, they banned me pretty quick! Pretty cowardly I thought....>

Oh, shoot, banned before you even get to see what witch's brew they're cooking up on the private board. I'm with St. George, Stacee -- glad you found this place. Check your in-box for private messages through this board -- I'm sending you something.
 

Savannah Blue

Re: More PA woes, straight from a PA author's mouth...

Hi Stacee.
Welcome. Glad you found us. This is a really good, informative group here.
SB
 

Sher2

Re: Now I'm mad!

<I have been trying to get in touch with Lee Foster with Lightning Source so I could find out how many of my books have been printed. When I finally got her on the phone today she indicated that she had contacted PA and they told her she was not to give out ANY information to ANY PA AUTHOR! The author is to be referred to PA.>


This doesn't surprise me, Lindy, but it purely sucks. PA must have been losing "49-copies" sales lately and decided to head it off at the pass. I don't know about the legality of such a stance. It seems to me that the literary property is as much yours as it is theirs and you have a right to be informed. Any lawyers in the house?
 

XThe NavigatorX

Re: More PA woes, straight from a PA author's mouth...

If you own the copyright, then you have the right to query Lightning Source about how many copies they've printed off. The problem is Lightning Source is the customer of PA, and they'll do whatever PA says. You shouldn't have any troubles getting a court-ordered look at their records.
 
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