Beta Needed! Fantasy/Adventure - 1st in series

phlebotinum · Jun 16, 2012

I am actively seeking a beta reader.

I have the second draft (though still a bit rough) of a story, nearly 30,000 words. Critique on the writing is great, as are notes on characters and story.

This is the first installment of an epic fantasy/adventure series that slowly becomes a vehicle for exploring issues of personal freedoms and gender identity. There is (what I hope to be) a carefully introduced gigantic cast of characters with several story lines, but the main character is a girl who dresses as a boy in order to join the crew of a sailing ship. She soon becomes entangled with the rebellion to restore her kingdom's fallen monarchy, but in the first section of the story she is introduced and the groundwork is laid.

(added: I don't have experience branding my writing. It is one of the many reasons I am here. I can see how it could be marketted as Young Adult, as there is nothing too explicit and several of the characters are teens, but that's not an audience that I think solely about. I'm not sure how to talk about the voice. There's an omniscient narrator who tells the story as though it is a folk legend and the text is dialog-heavy. I know traditional novels have minimum word counts, but the story chose to be dificult. To attempt an explanation: the end result will be like a trilogy, with each of the three books being broken down into ten parts, each a complete story within the full story with a beginning, middle, and end. What I have is the first one of ten of the first one of three. It is short, but intentionally separate. The story tells you how it wants to be told.)

In an ideal world, I could find a Beta reader or writing coach/partner who would stick with me as I write the subsequent installments, but I am glad for any help I can get. I would offer to swap, but I honestly don't think I'd be good at it (I rarely have free time, and when I do I am often distracted). I am willing to try, though you've been warned. (added: I'm not tryin to be a jerk, if you have a story that piques my interest, I really am willing to give it my best shot.)

Please shoot me a message or reply to the post if this strikes your interest at all. (added: I would be glad to send a sample, as I wouldn't want anyone to feel commited to a story that doesn't interest or delite him/her. If you have no interest in helping me, I would consider it a courtesy if you restrained yourself from snarky commets. I have tough skin, but please appreciate that asking for help is hard enough already.)

WriteMinded · Jun 16, 2012

Three posts on AW. Unfinished novel with a gigantic cast of characters to be introduced. And, your want a beta reader or writing coach to stick with you throughout an unspecified number of installments, but you probably won't be up to wasting any time returning said favor.

In an ideal world you would hang around and contribute something, acquire 50 posts and put your first chapter in SYW. Then, when your novel is finished, you might find someone to beta for you, especially if you offer to swap.

Unimportant · Jun 16, 2012

Phleb, you might want to note who the intended readership is (30K words usually equates to middle-grade readers). Beta readers will probably also want to know a bit more about the voice/style/etc of the story before committing to reading the whole thing. This is most easily accomplished by posting the first thousand words or so in Share Your Work, where you can get critiques on the opening and pair up with potential beta readers for the full ms at the same time.

As WriteMinded noted, this requires participating in the forum for a little while and getting your post count up to 50, but that too will work in your favour: the more we get to know you and the more you 'give' to the forum, the more we're likely to think "yeah, that's a person who I'd like to give a helping hand to and beta-read for". Most of us rarely have free time, so if we're going to volunteer to commit two or ten or thirty hours of our time to help out someone else for zero reward, we're more likely to pick someone who isn't a total stranger.

phlebotinum · Jun 16, 2012

I don't see why this response was necessary. This is your home and I'm intruding, I get that, but I seek help precisely because I DON'T KNOW what I'm doing.

It saddens me that success at this website is dependent on the person rather than the writing. I have often wished myself to be forum-savvy, but alas, my brain doesn't function this way. There have been, and likely will be again, times in my life when I could fake it and write 50 meaningful, friendship-inducing posts and even swap and occassional story without too much difficulty, but rent is high and I can barely find time to do my own story right now. I had seen, in beta reader profiles, that there were people willing and eager to read rather than swap, and I had hoped to imply that this would be desirable. Perhaps it is the minority here that thinks this way, but still, I don't think my well-meaning, perhaps enthusiastically honest request deserved the scathing sarcasm.

I was searching the web for help with my story, and the overwhelming response was to come here. If there is no intention of helping newbies, perhaps the requirments for joining should be renegotiated.

I post this with full knowledge that my short time here is over, having now painted myself as argumentative, unwilling to share, and humorless, which, sadly, is not the case at all. Unnessary rudeness irks me. We do the best we can with the tools we have.

meowzbark · Jun 16, 2012

Phlebotinum,

I think you should have more patience.

1) Give people more time to respond. It sometimes takes days or weeks for Beta-readers to offer to critique. You're looking for someone who's willing to Beta a novella length fantasy that isn't polished. You require a very specific type of Beta-reader.

2) The people who responded to your thread weren't trying to insult you. They were explaining why people are slow to give your manuscript a look-over. You're new. We don't know how you write. Many people are looking for swaps not straight up Beta-reads. Again, you need to invest time and effort into this forum before people are willing to invest time and effort into your work. Patience.

3) Polish your manuscript as best you can before asking for a Beta-read. You'll get more bites on the full thing. If you're stuck on the manuscript, then work on your next installment in the series. Personally, I think if your first manuscript is only 30k words, then you could possibly merge it with your second. A Beta-reader would be able to say if that's a good idea for sure, but only if you have both 1 and 2 complete. Novels are somewhat easier to publish than novellas (which is your current length).

Katrina S. Forest · Jun 17, 2012

I don't think anyone responding to this thread has been at all rude. Blunt, yes, but that's because we see a lot of threads like this one. It doesn't mean no one will talk to you. It just means we want to get to know you before any of us make a giant commitment like reading your entire fantasy series, and we'd rather explain that then you leave you sitting in silence wondering why no one will volunteer.

It saddens me that success at this website is dependent on the person rather than the writing.

If you mean that we're more willing to help people who participate and offer to help in return, regardless of how well they can write, yes, that's probably true. I think it's better than the other way around. Everyone's at different writing levels. I'm not going to judge someone as unworthy of a beta-reader simply because they're not as far along in their skills as others.

I can barely find time to do my own story right now.

The fact is, we're all busy. Some more than others, yes. But we all have obligations, be it jobs, kids, or moderating a massive writers' forum. We still all carve out time for our writing. And reading and critiquing the work of others should be part of your writing time. It's as essential to learning your craft as reading published books, because it teaches you to self-edit.

Now, all that said, I'm personally a complete pushover for the girl-shows-the-boys-she's-just-as-good-as-them type story. Spend some time on the boards. Say hi to other new people. Read the way others critique in the Share Your Work section. Write a few critiques yourself. When you hit 50 posts, put your first chapter up in Share Your Work. Then drop me a PM. I'll give it a look-over for you.

phlebotinum · Jun 17, 2012

Not to belabor the point, or to negate the good intentions of the most recent replies, which were wonderfully friendly, but the first response I recieved WAS rude and should not be acceptable. My first reaction was to delete the thread, delete my account, and cry in a corner. Perhaps it seems merely "blunt" to old hands here because you are so overly familiar with protocal, but I assure you, to have it defended hurts deeply and makes me feel that all users are hostile, and I am fighting all instincts to come back here (I rationally know they are not hostile, 3 of 4 is far from nothing).

I respect that there are an untold number of posts by people who don't know what they are doing. I feel it is important to note that I, at least, did not EXPECT someone to step in and answer all my prayers. Writing a post as a newbie is an exercise in blindly throwing wishes to the wind. If the ony dumb question is the one not asked, should I not be encouraged to at least try? I cannot hope to rope in an experienced member, but should I be denied the incredibly unlikely yet beautiful POSSIBILITY that someone, somewhere might see this as the perfect project for them? Please understand my frustration in being burried by long posts about how I am not following the rules, as well intentioned as most of them are.

The 50 posts will happen if they're meant to happen, please consider me made aware of house rules. I would greatly encourage, however, that the way newbies are addressed be reconsidered, and "bluntness" not be defended on a site built around support and community. Offering no response is the far superior option, as I can demonstrably guarentee at least three more kindly worded responses will be offered within 24 hours to make the newbie aware of their mistake without alienating them first.

Theo81 · Jun 17, 2012

phlebotinum said:
Not to belabor the point, or to negate the good intentions of the most recent replies, which were wonderfully friendly, but the first response I recieved WAS rude and should not be acceptable. My first reaction was to delete the thread, delete my account, and cry in a corner. Perhaps it seems merely "blunt" to old hands here because you are so overly familiar with protocal, but I assure you, to have it defended hurts deeply and makes me feel that all users are hostile, and I am fighting all instincts to come back here (I rationally know they are not hostile, 3 of 4 is far from nothing).

I respect that there are an untold number of posts by people who don't know what they are doing. I feel it is important to note that I, at least, did not EXPECT someone to step in and answer all my prayers. Writing a post as a newbie is an exercise in blindly throwing wishes to the wind. If the ony dumb question is the one not asked, should I not be encouraged to at least try? I cannot hope to rope in an experienced member, but should I be denied the incredibly unlikely yet beautiful POSSIBILITY that someone, somewhere might see this as the perfect project for them? Please understand my frustration in being burried by long posts about how I am not following the rules, as well intentioned as most of them are.

The 50 posts will happen if they're meant to happen, please consider me made aware of house rules. I would greatly encourage, however, that the way newbies are addressed be reconsidered, and "bluntness" not be defended on a site built around support and community. Offering no response is the far superior option, as I can demonstrably guarentee at least three more kindly worded responses will be offered within 24 hours to make the newbie aware of their mistake without alienating them first.

Maybe I can throw a little light on this for you.

What you may not know, because you have posted here first, (have you read the Newbie Guide?), rather than spending some time around the boards, is that we are writers.

Some of us are writers you've heard of. Some of us are not. Some of us are just starting our first novel, others are riding the query-go-round, others are longlisted for major literary prizes (no, I'm not joking. There are some MASSIVE hitters here).

You will know who some of these people are because they say so. Others are here incognito.

The point is, we are writers.

You wouldn't make your request to Lee Child, J K Rowling, and James Patterson and then get upset when they made the responses made here (at least, I hope you wouldn't). That's - essentially - what you've done though - plus, you've said you won't give anything in return.

AW is a community, not a free critiquing service. If I knew you, and liked you, I might give up some of my time to help you. Point is, I don't, and neither does anybody else here, so ... why should we? And why should you get upset when we ask that?

The best way not to be a newbie any more is to hang around, learn some stuff, make some friends.

To throw further light - we are writers. We spend a year or more of our life writing a novel, send it out, receive 200+ rejection letters, then we do it again. We are tough here, not because it's protocol, but because if you want to write and be published professionally, you have to be.

Good luck - I hope you spend the time here to learn and let us get to know you. :welcome:

Fallen · Jun 17, 2012

phlebotinum said:
There have been, and likely will be again, times in my life when I could fake it and write 50 meaningful, friendship-inducing posts and even swap and occassional story without too much difficulty, but rent is high and I can barely find time to do my own story right now.

People understand your pov more than you think, which is why responses came seem harsh, maybe especially so:

AW isn't just about making friends, it's a lifeline to other writers, to agents, publishers, editors, copywriters, to cover artists, to lawyers, to historians, to teachers (science, maths, english), to nurses, to poets, to songwriters, to people who have been in this business for a very long time, and who pass on their advice and knowledge to help out fellow colleagues.

They have families, lives, jobs, deadlines, and money worries too (who doesn't, huh?). So when a new member comes along and says their time is too short to respect just the basic "how best I can help" threads, it does drain people of energy, yes, but mostly because that understanding of time being valuable and limited isn't returned and acknowledged.

I hope you do get to spend some time on here. It's a good crowd with a huge heart

Maryn · Jun 17, 2012

Obviously you haven't seen this. And you need to.

Why point you that direction? Not because I'm a nasty person unwilling to lend a hand, but to illustrate the realities of what you're asking--many hours of someone's time, when we don't know you and may never see post seven.

While we'd love to see you get a great beta relationship going, what's more likely is that only other new arrivals, their skills unknown and reliability untested, will offer, and you may never hear from them again.

So instead of taking that risk, how about becoming a part of this writing community, so we know you, like you just fine, and would be proud to have contributed to your publishing success in some way?

Maryn, pleased to meet you

Tiarnan_Ceinders · Jun 17, 2012

Thanks for that post, Maryn. I agree that phleb needs to have a look at it. I hadn't before this, and I found it very useful.

Phelb, I think you'll notice a change in yourself as you start racking up the posts. You go from maybe asking a quick question, or welcoming someone new to the forums, to actually caring more about some parts of the AW forums.

For my part, I've got nearly 20 posts in a week. Which isn't a lot, but since I can't yet access the critique section, I've started my own blog and connected with other bloggers on AW. I read the "ask an agent" or "ask the editor" sections 2-3 times a day at least. I'm seeing if there's someone in my country, and my part of the country more specifically, that'd like to work on their writing together...

And those are just a few things. Those 50 posts are not there to hinder you and hold you back - they're meant to first pull you in to the community and become a part of it.

Welcome, by the way!

Unimportant · Jun 17, 2012

Tiarnan_Ceinders said:
For my part, I've got nearly 20 posts in a week. Which isn't a lot, but since I can't yet access the critique section...

Tiarnan, can you truly not get into SYW? Or is it just that you can't start a thread and post your own stories there until you've made 50 posts? I had thought that new members could go into SYW and read stories, read critiques, and write critiques.

Unimportant · Jun 17, 2012

phlebotinum said:
(added: I don't have experience branding my writing. It is one of the many reasons I am here. I can see how it could be marketted as Young Adult, as there is nothing too explicit and several of the characters are teens, but that's not an audience that I think solely about. I'm not sure how to talk about the voice. There's an omniscient narrator who tells the story as though it is a folk legend and the text is dialog-heavy. I know traditional novels have minimum word counts, but the story chose to be dificult.

Phleb, this may be a good starting point for you here at Absolute Write. You're looking for a beta reader (and, given the subject material, I reckon that sooner or later someone will put up their hand), but presumably you are also planning to seek commercial publication for your work. Why not explore the vast amounts of information here at AW and figure out where your work would fit with commercial publishers? The fact is, when you submit your work to an agent or publisher, you will need to know where it fits in the market. Middle Grade, Young Adult, Adult, High Fantasy, Low Fantasy, Urban Fantasy.... There are subforums here specifically for genres and subgenres and categories. Explore!

Yes, AW is a huge forum. But that means that there are heaps of people, and also heaps of information. Folks here are incredibly generous with their time and talents, but remember, everyone here is busy with their own writing and their own lives. No one can take an hour or two or thirty to lead each new member by the hand -- hence all the sticky threads and FAQ threads and "New Members Read This First!!" threads. It's worth taking the time to read them.

Katrina S. Forest · Jun 17, 2012

Okay, this is what I'm getting of your posts so far: You want to see this series of yours commercially published. Your thought process right now is you need a beta-reader to do that. But there's a lot more to getting commercially published than just having someone look over your work. You have to know how the business works.

Are you seeking a literary agent? If so, do you know how to write a query and a synopsis? Do you know how to tell a literary scam from a legit press? Do you know what exclusives, simultaneous submissions, and multiple submissions are? Do you know what first rights are and how to avoid inadvertently giving them up? (These are questions for you to think about, I'm not at all asking you to type answers to them.)

If you're shaking your head at some of these, you're missing a wealth of information that you need before going on submission. This is the place to get that info and grow as a writer at the same time.

I cannot hope to rope in an experienced member, but should I be denied the incredibly unlikely yet beautiful POSSIBILITY that someone, somewhere might see this as the perfect project for them?

Here's the thing. If you stick around and hang out with us, you'll find we do our very best not to leave requests for help ignored. Did you know there's actually a thread specifically for people who've gotten overlooked and have no crits in Share Your Work? (It's called SYW Starbucks, if you're looking for it down the line.)

We don't want you sitting there hoping and wishing things will work out. We want to get you the tools to make them work out. This means we'll correct you when we think you're off track. This means our critiques will be blunt and honest. Sometimes people will give you information in a way that makes you think, "Hmph! Well, excuse me for breathing!" But it's still good information, even if their delivery was off.

Bottom line: If no one's upfront with you, you won't ever reach the level needed to move beyond the piles of form rejections.

Tiarnan_Ceinders · Jun 17, 2012

Unimportant said:
Tiarnan, can you truly not get into SYW? Or is it just that you can't start a thread and post your own stories there until you've made 50 posts? I had thought that new members could go into SYW and read stories, read critiques, and write critiques.

Sorry, this was a bit unclear from my side. I can get in just fine, just can't publish anything myself. Although it took me a couple of days to figure out how to get in - so the 50 posts gives you time to figure out how the forums work in better detail.

Beta Needed! Fantasy/Adventure - 1st in series

phlebotinum

WriteMinded

Derailed

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.

phlebotinum

meowzbark

Katrina S. Forest

phlebotinum

Theo81

Fallen

Stood at the coalface

Maryn

At Sea

Tiarnan_Ceinders

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.

Katrina S. Forest

Tiarnan_Ceinders