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Firefly & Wisp Publishing
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Spend all that time chatting with one another and I'm sure some verbal tics rub off.
As a mod I can see the IP numbers folks are posting from. She genuinely is posting from about 700 miles from F&W's location.
IPNs. Interesting things.
As a mod I can see the IP numbers folks are posting from. She genuinely is posting from about 700 miles from F&W's location.
IPNs. Interesting things.
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BHastings, I appreciate your frustration, believe me. But you are making blanket statements about everyone in this thread, and we are all individuals. The moderators have already stated that anyone making personal attacks will be banned (or put in a long time out) from their behavior. I've seen them come down fast and hard on that sort of thing before and take them at their word. All posts have a little icon that can be used to report to the mods, and it should absolutely be used if you think someone here (including myself) stepped over the line. But please, report individuals, don't just criticize everyone in the thread.
I, for one, have done everything in my power to make statements based purely on evidence and my own experience. And here are the statements I have made:
1) The old FAQ was copied from Tor's website. This has been confirmed with Google cache.
2) The information about DRM fails to show an understanding of the technology. Again, this can be confirmed by reading the description on FF&W's site and comparing it some basic Internet research on the term.
3) The "preliminary cover" Ms. Zwissler presented did not look like it came from a professional cover designer, based on the preliminary covers I have seen before. Later in the thread, it was confirmed that it was indeed just a handmade cover for fun.
#1 and #2 are not simple errors or typos. They display a misunderstanding of publishing basics. It is not okay to simply copy another website's content, and DRM has nothing to do with what formats a book is available in.
Now, if you're wondering why #3 even mattered to us, it's because we have seen people lie about book deals before. Often enough that if we can't find evidence of a book deal's existence, we have to at least discuss the possibility that maybe it doesn't really exist. Hopefully, we are wrong. But if we are right, then it would be a valid reason not to recommend a publisher.
Now, to respond to some of your questions/statements:
Check the list of editors who have taken a week out of their summers to teach at Clarion West and similar workshops every year. I had the privilege of learning from one of them. Check out the editors who attend writers' conferences and teach there. They absolutely put themselves out there to answer questions.
One of the first editors I submitted to wrote back with a kind, personal letter pointing out what I now know is a pretty common flaw in early writing -- starting at the wrong place. Agents I have no connection to outside of querying have written back thoughtful responses to my work with suggestions for improvements, and I'm not even a client. Yes, the "gatekeepers" at the big leagues also care about writers improving. Yes, they do care about finding new talent.
No one had said Danielle is a horrible person. The very, very worst conclusion we might draw in this thread in that, given the evidence found on FF&W so far, we can't recommend submitting to them. Stating that a company doesn't seem to have sufficient experience in the industry and saying the owner is a horrible person are not the same thing. (Again, if someone said that or anything close to it, and I missed it, you should report it to a mod right away.) The entire purpose of this and every other thread in the Background Check section is to help determine if a company can do more for authors than they could do for themselves.
I hold firmly to the belief that when I write a highly marketable book, my odds shift from "unlikely" to "very likely." I also hold out the strong possibility that as of now, I have not yet written that book.
I'm involved with a group of local writers that meets monthly to do exactly what you described -- talk freely about the industry and our own writing progress. We are writers of all ages and levels of experience, ranging from a New York Times bestselling author to people who just decided to start writing a few months ago. Some people went with big publishers, some small, some self-published, some are still looking for the best home for their work.
There are all different paths in publishing. The purpose of this board is to help people make informed decisions. It's very easy to get swept away when someone finally validates your work. But if (and note that's an if) that someone can't actually help you get your book out there, they could be the nicest person in the world, and I would still say submitting to them wasn't in your best interest.
(And that, ladies and gentlemen, I think is my longest post on AW to date. So, do I get a cookie?)
I, for one, have done everything in my power to make statements based purely on evidence and my own experience. And here are the statements I have made:
1) The old FAQ was copied from Tor's website. This has been confirmed with Google cache.
2) The information about DRM fails to show an understanding of the technology. Again, this can be confirmed by reading the description on FF&W's site and comparing it some basic Internet research on the term.
3) The "preliminary cover" Ms. Zwissler presented did not look like it came from a professional cover designer, based on the preliminary covers I have seen before. Later in the thread, it was confirmed that it was indeed just a handmade cover for fun.
#1 and #2 are not simple errors or typos. They display a misunderstanding of publishing basics. It is not okay to simply copy another website's content, and DRM has nothing to do with what formats a book is available in.
Now, if you're wondering why #3 even mattered to us, it's because we have seen people lie about book deals before. Often enough that if we can't find evidence of a book deal's existence, we have to at least discuss the possibility that maybe it doesn't really exist. Hopefully, we are wrong. But if we are right, then it would be a valid reason not to recommend a publisher.
Now, to respond to some of your questions/statements:
Check the list of editors who have taken a week out of their summers to teach at Clarion West and similar workshops every year. I had the privilege of learning from one of them. Check out the editors who attend writers' conferences and teach there. They absolutely put themselves out there to answer questions.
One of the first editors I submitted to wrote back with a kind, personal letter pointing out what I now know is a pretty common flaw in early writing -- starting at the wrong place. Agents I have no connection to outside of querying have written back thoughtful responses to my work with suggestions for improvements, and I'm not even a client. Yes, the "gatekeepers" at the big leagues also care about writers improving. Yes, they do care about finding new talent.
No one had said Danielle is a horrible person. The very, very worst conclusion we might draw in this thread in that, given the evidence found on FF&W so far, we can't recommend submitting to them. Stating that a company doesn't seem to have sufficient experience in the industry and saying the owner is a horrible person are not the same thing. (Again, if someone said that or anything close to it, and I missed it, you should report it to a mod right away.) The entire purpose of this and every other thread in the Background Check section is to help determine if a company can do more for authors than they could do for themselves.
I hold firmly to the belief that when I write a highly marketable book, my odds shift from "unlikely" to "very likely." I also hold out the strong possibility that as of now, I have not yet written that book.
I'm involved with a group of local writers that meets monthly to do exactly what you described -- talk freely about the industry and our own writing progress. We are writers of all ages and levels of experience, ranging from a New York Times bestselling author to people who just decided to start writing a few months ago. Some people went with big publishers, some small, some self-published, some are still looking for the best home for their work.
There are all different paths in publishing. The purpose of this board is to help people make informed decisions. It's very easy to get swept away when someone finally validates your work. But if (and note that's an if) that someone can't actually help you get your book out there, they could be the nicest person in the world, and I would still say submitting to them wasn't in your best interest.
(And that, ladies and gentlemen, I think is my longest post on AW to date. So, do I get a cookie?)
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Ah, okay. Thank you for the clarification and apologies for the minor derail.
MacAllister
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For the record, Penguin's parent company quarterlies don't list ff&w as someone they distribute. (Here's a partial history of the relationships between the companies in question.)
And I've just heard back from a Penguin marketing contact who told me, and I'll quote:
And I've just heard back from a Penguin marketing contact who told me, and I'll quote:
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Mac, in the Facebook comments you highlighted in comment #87 in this thread, Earl Zwissler wrote,
I don't suppose you've spoken to anyone at RH to verify this statement?
I don't suppose you've spoken to anyone at RH to verify this statement?
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Not yet, Jane. I also haven't checked the quarterlies and announcements for Random House, yet.
We do, however, have a query in with the good folks at Tor regarding the status of a book contract on "The Goblet Tooth" and we have this, upstream, from aliceshortcake:
What perplexes me is why they'd be trying to (or at least pretending to try to) wangle some sort of distribution deal with another publisher, instead of simply working to establish their cred and distribute through Ingram and/or Baker & Taylor.
We do, however, have a query in with the good folks at Tor regarding the status of a book contract on "The Goblet Tooth" and we have this, upstream, from aliceshortcake:
What perplexes me is why they'd be trying to (or at least pretending to try to) wangle some sort of distribution deal with another publisher, instead of simply working to establish their cred and distribute through Ingram and/or Baker & Taylor.
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I note that Random House does not list any relationship at all with Firefly and Wisp in their quarterlies, nor do my contacts at Random House have any familiarity with F and W, and my contacts are both in production and distribution/warehousing.
Nor are they listed in this very current list of RH.biz distribution clients:
http://www.randomhouse.biz/publisherservices/currentclients/
Nor are they listed in this very current list of RH.biz distribution clients:
http://www.randomhouse.biz/publisherservices/currentclients/
It's not uncommon for small publishers to piggyback on a bigger publisher's distribution services like that, Mac (for example, the UK independent Long Barn Books had such an agreement with, I think, S&S): but all of the smaller publishers which do this have a rock-solid reputation, and a strong history of publishing really good books which have done well in the market.
With all due respect to F&W and its authors, I don't think it can demonstrate the sales levels which would enable such a distribution agreement.
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Thank you for explaining that. I was puzzled, but a lot of things about publishing are occasionally mystifying to me.
If you want to publish books, for the love of all that's holy, hire a professional editor with a close, nay an intimate relationship with English.
I'm seeing exactly the same basic errors in English syntax and punctuation in Danielle's prose and in the presumably edited books.
Of the eight or so books that I've looked at in terms of online sample .pdfs, they all appear to be text dumps of almost the very worst sort.
I'm seeing exactly the same basic errors in English syntax and punctuation in Danielle's prose and in the presumably edited books.
Of the eight or so books that I've looked at in terms of online sample .pdfs, they all appear to be text dumps of almost the very worst sort.
- Note the chapter openers, especially the initial paragraph. The initial body paragraph is generally flush left in most books; not with Firefly and Wisp.
- Note that the right margin is ragged in Firefly and Wisp books; this will often result in unsightly gaps, and is not standard. Just pick up a professionally produced book and take a look.
- Note issues with fonts that are not supported in all sizes; especially in drop-caps.
- Note the use of footers that are non-standard, instead of verso and recto headers.
- Note the odd choices of type for footers / headers compared to body text.
- Note the idiosyncratic use of curly/printer’s quotation marks and apostrophes. Firefly and Wisp are all over the place on this one.
- Note the frequent ignorance about what to italicize, and how to handle terminal punctuation in dialog.
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POD books absolutely aren't going to qualify for a distribution deal. There's no way to deal with returns, or stock orders for a chain, for instance.
There's no CIP data, so you can't order for a library without having to pay for cataloging.
BHastings, I think the whole point of this thread is very simple: Ms. Zwissler's exaggeration concerning her own career as an author makes FF&W suspect as a publisher. If we cannot trust her claims about her own books, how can we trust her claims as a publisher?
As with all publishers, agents, etc. discussed in this forum, people are asking questions with the best interests of AW's members in mind. No one here wants anyone to be taken advantage of or fall prey to outrageous claims, only to be horribly disappointed when their sales, marketing, or some other facet of the process is nothing like they expected.
No one is being cruel. The people here are nothing if not thorough, which is why so many of us rely upon the information shared in these threads. Plenty of publishers here have faced the same questions, and answered them with grace and dignity. Many more have not.
As with all publishers, agents, etc. discussed in this forum, people are asking questions with the best interests of AW's members in mind. No one here wants anyone to be taken advantage of or fall prey to outrageous claims, only to be horribly disappointed when their sales, marketing, or some other facet of the process is nothing like they expected.
No one is being cruel. The people here are nothing if not thorough, which is why so many of us rely upon the information shared in these threads. Plenty of publishers here have faced the same questions, and answered them with grace and dignity. Many more have not.
True.
Relying on POD effectively excludes a publisher from having a contract with a good distributor. The two business models are mutually exclusive. If you check the T&C of most distributors they will state very clearly that they will only consider publishers which hold stock of their own books.
With regard to Medievalist's comment at #111, I have to wonder if the people behind F&W have any publishing experience. Publishing isn't a business one can just hop into if the fancy strikes: it's a very counterintuitive business, and to do well at it one does need to learn from others with appropriate expertise.
QFT. If Zwissler really has been published by Harlequin/Sihouette and Scholastic (perhaps under a pen name or her maiden name) it should be a simple matter for her to provide us with titles, ISBNs and other evidence. Until that happens I think it's reasonable to assume that in effect she is self-published through her own company and by Books To Go Now, which has its own thread here:
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228904
I was beginning to think that there's something slightly sad about all this - if DAW doesn't publish The Dream Stealers by 'D L Haver' this year how is Zwisser going to explain it away? - but then I read the previous posts about FF&W's deplorable treatment of their authors. Any sympathy I may have felt evaporated instantly.
I'm also intrigued by a claim Zwissler made in the FF&W author's lounge:
She goes on to suggest that this might be a suitable venue for a FF&W author signing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that this store will be an outlet for Amazon Publishing titles, Kindles and Kindle-related accessories.
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I followed the link here that Mac posted on Twitter. This has been quite a morning read. One thing I've taken away from it is this: when my manuscript is ready for submission, I'm coming here for advice and guidance. Nothing slips by all of you working together.
This.
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that they don't know what "distribution" means. And it's not something everyman knows by poking around the internet, so I'm going to have to support waving the caution flag over this publisher.
When I was first starting out, I would have submitted to Firefly & Wisp on a heartbeat because I was inexperienced with how publishing worked. I would have assumed that they knew what they were doing on how to run a publishing company. I would have been overjoyed that someone accepted my work and I was going to see it in "hard cover" or in a "book store" -- both claims Danielle is making on her Facebook page. I would have trusted them with the first rights of the book I worked so hard on. I would have believed her claims of being a published writer by a big 6 publisher and her distribution deals with Penguin or Random House. When I was first starting out there wasn't an AW or even an internet to debunk any of Danielle/Firefly's claims. And her husband's diatribe against the questioning of them, would have scared me into compliance because I didn't want to be "black balled" by the industry.
But I'm no longer just starting out. This isn't my first rodeo. And I have an obligation to new writers who were just like me to raise a warning flag. I would not submit to F&W because of the following:
1. Their lack of knowledge about the industry doesn't fill me with confidence about their ability to publish my book in a professional manner.
2. I don't believe co-owner Earl's claims that he spends thousands of hours and hundreds of dollars on every book, and I don't like his tone in his Facebook post about the authors complaining about F&W.
3. In fact, I'm having a hard time believing anything this publisher says. If they're not flat out lying (publishing credits) or stealing (web code from Tor), then they're clueless about what they're doing and saying.
There are better epublishers out there. Avoid these guys.
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And it just gets weirder... (Sorry I can't screencap - I don't know how to do that.)
From F&W Facebook:
Firefly & Wisp Book Publishing
about an hour ago
Firefly & Wisp would like to thank everyone for being great fans to our awesome writers. We are sad to say that we are closing our doors. But on a happy note: Xchyler Publishing will be taking over our book contracts, per author agreement. If you haven't yet fanned the company, you should.
From F&W Facebook:
Firefly & Wisp Book Publishing
about an hour ago
Firefly & Wisp would like to thank everyone for being great fans to our awesome writers. We are sad to say that we are closing our doors. But on a happy note: Xchyler Publishing will be taking over our book contracts, per author agreement. If you haven't yet fanned the company, you should.
And now that FB post is GONE.
What a way to run a business! I now see why they're closing their doors.
ETA: And it appears that our friend JRubas just agreed to be F&W's Asst. Marketing Director as of only 18 hours ago. But now they're gone? Does JRubas know he's been sacked? Or is this some sort of shell game where they're hiding under the umbrella of another publisher?
From his author page:
Joseph Rubas: Horror Writer
18 hours ago
I am pleased to announce that as of today, I am the official Assistant Marketing Director of Firefly and Wisp Book Publishing (which can be found here: http://www.facebook.com/fireflyandwisp). I am very excited about this opportunity, and will do everything in my power to grow not only myself but also the company.
Firefly & Wisp Book Publishing
What a way to run a business! I now see why they're closing their doors.
ETA: And it appears that our friend JRubas just agreed to be F&W's Asst. Marketing Director as of only 18 hours ago. But now they're gone? Does JRubas know he's been sacked? Or is this some sort of shell game where they're hiding under the umbrella of another publisher?
From his author page:
Joseph Rubas: Horror Writer
18 hours ago
I am pleased to announce that as of today, I am the official Assistant Marketing Director of Firefly and Wisp Book Publishing (which can be found here: http://www.facebook.com/fireflyandwisp). I am very excited about this opportunity, and will do everything in my power to grow not only myself but also the company.
Firefly & Wisp Book Publishing
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I didn't know the verb "fanned" meant anything other than waving a paper back and forth in front of oneself to try and cool down.
<--Is not young anymore.
Regarding that post... words fail me.
<--Is not young anymore.
Regarding that post... words fail me.
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A bit quicker than I expected ... but not at all surprising.
Xchyler Publishing Submissions team have agreed to read through the Firefly and Wisp manuscripts, when we get proof that their contracts have been terminated.
The authors should not be targeted because of the publisher. Their not at fault in the matter.
Joseph Rubas was a beta reader at Xchyler Publishing when we started in January, though was very quickly terminated. our staff can be found on our website.
These authors are scattered this morning. As of right now everything they have worked for, is under a bus. Lisa Morgan had a release party last night and has just paid for press releases in her local papers.
The authors should not be targeted because of the publisher. Their not at fault in the matter.
Joseph Rubas was a beta reader at Xchyler Publishing when we started in January, though was very quickly terminated. our staff can be found on our website.
These authors are scattered this morning. As of right now everything they have worked for, is under a bus. Lisa Morgan had a release party last night and has just paid for press releases in her local papers.
