The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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goomee

Re: PA and 1st Books

Sherrie, they don't really need the galley proofs, as they do absolutely nothing that normal publishers do with galley proofs. I'm 99% sure, they will simply go right ahead and publish it without your okay. Believe me, they don't care if there are mistakes all over the finished product. If I were you, I would go ahead and come right out and tell them I wanted out now, before they are at a point where they've invested much (ha-ha) into it. I do know people who got out at about your stage and it appeared to be fairly easy. However, one thing is certain: You can never tell what PA will do.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: PA and 1st Books

A PA author asks, over on their messageboard:

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> I don't understand your statement about what is or isn't
POD. POD means print on demand, right? PA does
that as many other publishing companies do, but the
implication from that is they are vanity publishers, which
they are not. We do not pay them, they pay us. This is
the thing that distinguishes them. So is this understood
by the bookstores?
<hr></blockquote>

Yes, POD is Print On Demand. (Even though Infocenter says it isn't: "PublishAmerica is not a 'print on demand' company...)" Yes, other companies do that.

But, here's why PublishAmerica is a vanity press. First, yes, they pay you a token $1 advance; compare this with the $30 that you're required to pay for your own copyright. You start out $29 in the hole; those two "free" copies cost you $14.50 each.

Then, authors have little choice but to buy and market their own books. Authors buying their own books to sell from the trunks of their cars = vanity press.

Certainly everyone's noticed the very high cover prices on PublishAmerica books. They're far higher than similar-length books printed with identical technology from other, legitimate presses. The vanity-press fee has been added to the cover price of every book.

If PA required that its authors buy some certain number of their own books, everyone would instantly identify them as a vanity publisher. PA, cleverly, noticed that they don't need to make that a requirement. This is because authors love their own books -- if the only way to get books to reviewers is for the author to buy them himself, he will. If the only way to put books into bookstores is to buy them himself and place them on consignment, he will. Authors are predictable.

Yes, authors are given a "discount" when buying their own books. Even with the discount, the price is what the full retail price of a similar book would be from a different publisher. Authors buying their own books by the carton, at full retail price ... that's vanity.

How does PA get away with extremely high cover prices? PA figures that the only people likely to buy the books are the author, and the author's family and friends -- and those folks will buy the book regardless of price.

Do the bookstores understand this?

Yes, they do.

<HR>

Dave:

Actually, HB, the guy who runs P&E is alive and well and trashing PA on another "notable" authors site online. I have often gone head to head with him and made him look somewhat foolish. (all in all, not a very difficult feat.)

Which "authors site online" do you think that is?
 

Sher2

Re: Proofs

<You could always place subliminal messages in your manuscript such as PA is evil.>: clap

I love that idea, Dave. And God knows nobody at PA would edit it out.
 

Sher2

Re: PA and 1st Books

<they don't really need the galley proofs, as they do absolutely nothing that normal publishers do with galley proofs. I'm 99% sure, they will simply go right ahead and publish it without your okay. Believe me, they don't care if there are mistakes all over the finished product. If I were you, I would go ahead and come right out and tell them I wanted out now, before they are at a point where they've invested much (ha-ha) into it. I do know people who got out at about your stage and it appeared to be fairly easy. However, one thing is certain: You can never tell what PA will do. >

You know, that's about what I figured; i.e., if I don't send in anything else, they'll go with what they have. I'll still mulling over whether to try to get out of the contract but will make a decision by the time those dreaded proofs arrive. The whole mess is so embarrassing. I haven't breathed a word of it to friends or family.
 

DaveKuzminski

Which Online Site?

Sher2:

Yes, they might have to do some actual editing over there to make sure such phrases aren't in the proofs. ;)

James:

That's difficult to pin down. I do post on a number of sites and I'm not ashamed to admit that I give out straight answers when asked about PA or any other publisher or agent. I guess they're just going to need a whole lot more trolls to keep up with us.

Speaking of which, I noticed that Bruce had to take a potshot at me. I guess he needed to impress his boss that he's loyal. If not, then trying to impress those writers that he humiliated me only proves that I'm hurting his publisher's recruiting efforts to reach 9,000 victims, er, authors.

Hey, Bruce! Explain this to the other PA authors. If PA is such a traditional publisher, then why doesn't it have a bestseller yet? Surely, there ought to be just one out of 8,000 writers by now. Other traditional publishers have managed to produce more than one from far fewer writers than that in the same amount of time in business. Since we know the PA writers are all trying their best, it must be the fault of the editors or the publisher. Right?
 

Jarocal

Re: Signs his name there, but not here?

Dave,

The sad part is that one of the 8000 titles from PA would have made it somewhere on the best seller list with proper editing and marketing from the PUBLISHER. That one title (I do not have a specific one in mind) could also have seen a higher measure of success if properly edited and subsequently self-published, due to the ability to have a reasonably price and return policy on the book. I am not recommending everyone thinking of PA should go out and self-publish, but for the price of going with PA,Authorhouse, or another one of the POD presses they could have put out enough books to sell/give to their friends/family. They would also be left with a more reasonably priced book which has a better chance of gracing a bookstore shelf.
 

James D Macdonald

For thewritelady

Reply to a question in another thread:

<HR>

WD doesn't seem to have any problems figuring out PA's business model.

Tell you what, drop over to the PA authors' board, if you have posting privileges there, and ask for a show of hands of how many authors never bought a copy of their own book.

Ask the authors there to pledge never to buy copies of their own books. See how fast you get locked out by management. If PA doesn't want to be viewed as a vanity press, the authors will have to stop treating it like a vanity press.

(Incidentally -- that one dollar advance coming in meets the thirty dollar copyright fee going out, leaving the author twenty-nine dollars in the hole on day one. Each one of those two "free" books costs the author $14.50 out of pocket.)

Tell me -- why does PA spend so much time promoting large purchases of their own books to the authors? I think I saw something just today about some plan for authors who are willing to buy 100 copies of their own book.
 

Sher2

Re: For thewritelady

<Ask the authors there to pledge never to buy copies of their own books. See how fast you get locked out by management. If PA doesn't want to be viewed as a vanity press, the authors will have to stop treating it like a vanity press.>


Not only that, but you'd get lynched by an angry mob before management showed up to lock you out. I swear, it's like a cult. Village of the Damned.
 

thewritelady

i see

I wondered why their prices were so high on the books, and that explains it. I know what they do is unethical, at best, but is it illegal? If they don't live up to their side of the contract, could you get out of it without a big hassle? Just wondering...
Oh, James, sorry about posting in the wrong thread, it was an accident, I don't even know how I ended up there!
(Still a newbie here:smack )
 

DaveKuzminski

Hey Bruce!

Personally, I don't think you have the nerve to show your true colors over here in an honest debate under your real name.
 

lastr

Bruce Robinson

Actually, HB, the guy who runs P&E is alive and well and trashing PA on another "notable" authors site online. I have often gone head to head with him and made him look somewhat foolish. (all in all, not a very difficult feat.)

Which "authors site online" do you think that is?

Dave, this is Robinson from the writers.net board that had such a field day on why PA a few months back. He was posting at the same time that troll was going on and on until he was banned - again.

www.writers.net/forum/read.php?f=13&i=5398&t=5258
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: Bruce Robinson

Well, lastr, I'm just offering him a chance to debate under his own name. Claiming something under his name on one board that he did on another board without 1) naming the board and time, and 2) without stating what name he used at that time is nothing more than hot air. I'm offering him an opportunity to put up or shut up.

Of course, I intend to stand as I always do on the side of authors. He's more than welcome to stand up for any scammer he wants to represent.
 

lastr

BL Robinson

He should post a link on the PA BB to some of the things he said on the other board, they might think his bragging is full of hot air - which it is.

I just bopped on over to the April threads that were going on and shook my head over all the hot air still waving around them. He didn't dare post what was going on then on the PA board, he waits 4 months then brags?

Author: B.L.Robinson
Date: 02-18-04 20:57

Actually I understood it completely, since I am a California Certified paralega, Publius, with more than a few years experience in the legal field. If you have facts and not just simple conjecture, put them out here and let us verify them. Otherwise, I do have to defend your right to an opinion, but unless you have personal experience, this translates to nothing more than a slanderous statement towards PA. And Lord knows we have already dealt with them over and over.
The contract is nearly identical to one on the SFFWA site, other than the advance clause. And just like any other contract if you are not capable of understanding it, perhaps you should seek the advice of a qualified attorney to review it before signing.


Language style seem familar to you Dave?
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: BL Robinson

lastr, I just finished checking out the archives over at Writer's Net. I didn't even find a single instance where I addressed any comments to Bruce. I found one instance where we posted in the same topic, but he was talking primarily to Publius who was believed to be Mark York. Is that supposed to be the foundation for his boast of making me look foolish?

I will state this much. At least Bruce had the guts to post under his name on the Writer's Net board. But he obviously has a problem with remembering who he responded to.
 

lastr

Bruce and Dave

I couldn't find anytime you two posted *at* each other, that was during the York trolling time, maybe he thinks you were Publicus (sigh can't remember the spelling of that one). He was pretty smug about PA but kept hopping from thread to thread telling all how smart he was, and all the research he had done. I'd be insulted if he thought I was Mr. York though.:bang
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: Bruce and Dave

Well, if he thought I was Publius, then think about what that says for the research he claims he did.

Hey Bruce! Coming over? I have questions for you. All you have to do is give an honest answer.
 

lastr

Research

I'm still reeling over how his research showed him that the PA contract was just like all other traditional publisher's contracts. I'd hate to be the lawyer he does his paralegal law research for :lol
 

James D Macdonald

Re: BL Robinson

Lessee.... The contract is nearly identical to one on the SFFWA site, other than the advance clause?

Any of our friends here who have PA contracts who'd like to compare theirs with the one on the SFWA site, here's the link:

<a href="http://www.sfwa.org/contracts/hc_cont.htm" target="_new">www.sfwa.org/contracts/hc_cont.htm</a>
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: BL Robinson

Heck, I can do better than that. I can email you a copy of the contract furnished to me by one of the writers that PA offered it to.
 

DaveKuzminski

In the interest of educating writers

Here's a recent PA contract:

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PublishAmerica
PublishAmerica, LLLP
POST OFFICE BOX 151
FREDERICK, MARYLAND 21705-0151
AGREEMENT made this DATE day of MONTH 2002, between party of the first
part, AUTHOR , hereinafter called the Author, and PublishAmerica, LLLP, a book publishing
company with its principal office located in the State of Maryland, party of the second part,
hereinafter called the Publisher.
Witnesseth:
Whereas, the Author is Proprietor of a literary work at present known as: TITLE
which work the Publisher agrees to produce in book form on the terms and conditions specified
hereinafter;
1. The Author grants and assigns to the Publishers during a period of seven years from the date of
the signing of this agreement by both parties thereto the exclusive right to publish, sell or export, or
cause to be published, sold or exported, the above work in book form in any language or languages,
in the United States of America, its Dependencies, and in the Dominion of Canada; and the exclusive
right to arrange for the publication of the above work in book form in all foreign countries, and/or
to export copies to these territories and countries. The Author and the Publishers agree that this
agreement is renewable upon the date of its expiration during an additional and successive period of
seven years, on the same terms and conditions as specified herinafter, provided that both parties to
this agreement shall mutually ratify such renewal in writing at least three months prior to the date of
expiration as hereabove set forth.
2. The Publisher agrees to produce the said literary work in book form, in such format, type and style
of paper, jacket and binding as will make the volume attractive and substantial-looking. It is
specifically understood and agreed, furthermore, that the said volume will contain all manuscript
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pages as submitted by the Author (unless otherwise designated hereinafter), and will be printed on
good quality paper with the bound size to be, approximately, 5½ x 8½ or 6 x 9 inches, or any other
size as the market demands.
3. The Publisher agrees to cause all copies of the said literary work to be printed as the market
demands, and agrees, furthermore, to cause the copies so printed to be bound, from time to time, in
sufficient quantities to supply purchasers of the said literary work therewith.
The Publisher shall pay to the Author the following royalties:
A royalty upon the regular edition sold in the United States of:
8 percent of the sales price thereof on the first 2,000 copies sold;
10 percent on the next 8,000 copies sold;
12.5 percent on all copies sold in excess of 10,000 .
4. Copyright shall be taken out in the name of Author in the United States of America, and in
foreign countries as the Publisher may deem advisable.
5. The Author agrees that all the copies of the said literary work that may be used for review and/or
publicity purposes, and all that the Publisher may deliver to the Author without receiving payment
in money, and all that the Publisher may deliver to the Author at a discount from the regular retail
price, shall not be subject to any payment to the Author.
6. If the work is authored or owned by more than one person, the word Author, as used herein, shall
be deemed to include all collaborators, authors, or owners who are parties hereto, jointly and
severally, and all sums payable to the Author shall be divided equally between or among them and the
Publisher shall render separate accounts and make separate payments to each of them unless herein
otherwise provided.
7. No payment shall be made to the Author on any copies of the said literary work that the Publisher
may distribute for advertising and/or sales promotion purposes, that may be destroyed by fire and/or
water or otherwise damaged or destroyed, or that may be lost in transit or in any other manner - such
damage, loss and/or destruction not being due to any negligence on the part of the Publisher.
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8. No payment shall be made to the Author for permission gratuitously given to others to publish
extracts from the said literary work to benefit the sale thereof, but all compensation received by the
Publisher for the publication of extraction therefrom, or for serial use after publication in book form,
or for translations, or for abridgments, or as a book club selection, shall be divided in the proportion
of 50% to the Author and 50% to the Publisher. All compensation received by the Publisher
for the dramatic or motion picture rights, or for the first serial rights prior to book publication, or for
foreign, radio, dramatic, cheap edition, television and/or all other rights in the said literary work shall
be similarly divided between the Author and the Publisher, as hereabove set forth.
9. The Publisher agrees to distribute, at his discretion, for purposes of publicity and/or review,
promotional information pertaining to the said literary work, to publications throughout the United
States and/or the Dominion of Canada, or elsewhere. Distribution of this promotional material shall
be at the Publisher’s own cost and expense and to media outlets of the Publisher’s own choice. The
Author agrees that excerpts of the said literary work may be included in this promotional information,
and agrees, furthermore, that the Publisher may, at the Publisher’s election and discretion, cause to
promote the said literary work, as designated, in any electronic format, and that the Publisher may
sell or cause to sell copies of the said literary work in any electronic format. The Publisher agrees to
pay to the Author a return as specified in Provision # 3 of this agreement of the sales price of every
copy in any electronic format that may be sold and for which the Publisher shall receive payment in
money.
10. The Publisher agrees to deliver to the Author 2 copies of the said literary work, on
publication, without charge. Should the Author wish to purchase additional copies of the said literary
work directly from the Publisher, the Publisher agrees to supply the Author with such copies at a
discount of 20% from the regular retail price per copy, if the Author orders up to 20 copies at
a time, and at a discount of 30% from the regular retail price per copy, if the Author orders 21
copies or more at a time. The Author may dispose of these copies in any manner, and, if re-sold, may
retain all monies derived therefrom.
11. The Publisher agrees to keep and maintain true and accurate records relating to the distribution
of copies of the said literary work, including reports of all sales and collections therefrom.
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12. The Publisher agrees to render and forward to the Author, in the months of February and August
next succeeding the date of publication of the said literary work, and thereafter semi-annual
statements of account for so long as copies of the work subject to royalty are sold. With respect to
copies sold, the statement shall indicate the price of each copy sold. The statement shall indicate both
the total royalties payable to Author on sales during the accounting period and the breakdown
indicating the royalties attributable to specific kinds of sales. Author may, upon giving sufficient
notice of no less than seven days, examine Publisher’s records and accounts to the extent that such
records and accounts are relevant to the publication of the said literary work, which shall be done at
Author’s expense.
13. The Publisher shall furnish the Author with an electronic page proof of the work which conforms
to the completed manuscript as submitted by the Author. The Author agrees to return such proof to
the Publisher with his (grammar and/or spelling and/or “typo” and/or non-substantial editing)
corrections within fifteen (15) days of the receipt thereof by him. The cost of alterations in the page
proof required by the Author, other than corrections of Publisher’s errors, in excess of fifteen (15%)
percent of the original cost of composition, shall be charged against the earning of the Author under
this agreement; provided also, however, that the Publisher shall promptly furnish to the Author an
itemized statement of such additional expenses, and shall make available at the Publisher’s office the
corrected proof for inspection by the Author or his representatives.
14. (A) If, in the Publisher’s opinion, the manuscript of the said literary work requires substantial
editing, the Publisher agrees to provide such editorial service without cost or expense to the Author.
It is specifically understood and agreed, however, that the Publisher shall make no major revisions,
changes and/or alterations therein without first consulting the Author and receiving written
permission to do so. (B) The Publisher reserves the right to delete, modify and/or make such editorial
changes and/or revision as they deem advisable in the event that the context, or implication, of any
part of the said literary work would, in Publisher’s opinion, incite prejudice, or defame any group,
or any member thereof, because of race, religion or nationality; or in the event that any part or parts
of the said literary work may be considered, by the Publisher, to be against the public welfare.
15. If the Author shall make any changes and/or alterations in the proofs of the said literary work as
submitted by the Publisher after it has been set up in type (other than corrections of Publisher’s
errors), or if the Author shall add additional material thereto at any time after the signing of this
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agreement, the Publisher agrees to make such changes and/or alterations, and to add additional
material, only on condition that the said changes and/or alterations and the inclusion of any new
material shall be approved of by the Publisher as benefiting the said literary work, and on condition,
furthermore, that the Author shall pay to the Publisher all the cost involved in so doing.
16. The Author agrees to revise the work on request of the Publisher, if the Publisher considers it
necessary in the best interests of the First and/or future Editions of the work. The provision of this
agreement shall apply to each revision of the work by the Author as though that revision were the
work being published for the first time under this agreement, except that the manuscript of the revised
work shall be delivered in final form by the Author to the Publisher within a reasonable time after
request for revision; further, no initial payment shall be made in connection with such revision.
17. Sales promotion, advertising and publicity shall be at the Publisher’s election and discretion as
to the extent, scope and character thereof and in all matters pertaining thereto. The Author agrees
to actively participate in promoting the sales of the said literary work in his home town area and
elsewhere, by making himself available to media interviews, book readings and/or signings, and other
public sales promotion appearances.
18. The Author agrees that all matters dealing with the design and production of the said literary
work shall be at the discretion of the Publisher.
19. Whereas this agreement refers to a First Edition of the said literary work, as designated, the
Publisher may produce as many editions thereof, consisting of as many copies as Publisher shall deem
advisable, at any time after it ceases to produce copies of the First Edition. On all such subsequent
editions that the Publisher may produce, the Author shall receive a return as specified in Provision
# 3 of this agreement of the sales price of every copy that may be sold and for which the Publisher
shall receive payment in money.
20. Author hereby agrees that the Publisher shall have the exclusive right for the duration of this
Agreement to negotiate for the sale, lease, license or other disposition of the said literary work in all
hard and/or soft cover or reprint editions in book form, and in the motion picture, dramatic, radio,
television, and/or all other fields if so instructed by the Author in writing. It is also agreed that the
Publisher may engage an agent, or agents, to negotiate, or assist in negotiating, for such sale, lease,
license or other disposition. Approval of all terms, provisions and conditions of any and all contracts
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in connection with any such sale, lease, license or other disposition shall be given by the Author upon
the recommendation of the Publisher; and, for that purpose, the Author agrees to duly execute any
and all contracts, assignments, instruments and approved papers submitted by the Publisher. All gross
monies and compensation received in payment for such sale, lease, license or other disposition shall
be collected and disbursed by the Publisher, and all contracts for such sale, lease, license or other
disposition shall provide that such monies and compensations are to be paid to the Publisher; and the
Publisher is authorized to receive, collect and disburse same and to endorse and deposit all checks
and/or drafts for such payment. All payments due from the Publisher to the Author hereunder shall
be made within ninety (90) days from the receipt thereof by the Publisher, accompanied by statements
of the amounts received and disbursed.
21. In the event of the infringement, by others, of the copyright, or other rights, in the said literary
work, the Publisher may, in its discretion, sue, or employ other remedies as it may deem expedient,
and shall pay to the Author 50% of the net proceeds of any recovery.
22. This agreement is entered into by both parties in good faith, with the mutual understanding that
neither party has guaranteed, or is to guarantee, the sale of any specific number of copies of the said
literary work, it being impossible to predict, before publication, what success any book may attain.
23. The Author acknowledges that the Publisher has not made any prior pledges, promises,
guarantees, inducements, of whatever nature, either in writing, by word of mouth, or in any form, that
are not contained in the terms of this agreement.
24. When in the judgment of the Publisher, the public demand for the work is no longer sufficient to
warrant its continued manufacture, the Publisher may discontinue further manufacture and destroy
any or all plates, books, sheets and electronic files without any liability in connection therewith to the
Author. However, the Publisher agrees to notify the Author of such decision in writing, and will offer
to transfer to the Author the work and its rights in the copyrights thereon, the plates (if any), the
bound copies and sheet stock (if any) on the following terms F.O.B. point of shipment: the plates at
their value for old metal, the engravings (to be used only in the work) at one-half (½) their original
cost, the bound stock at one-half (½) the list price, and the sheet stock at cost of gathering, folding,
sewing and preparing for shipment, all without royalties. In the latter event, unless the Author shall,
within 30 days, accept said offer and pay the amount set forth in said writing, the Publisher may
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dispose of the work, copyrights, plates, books, sheets and other property without further liability for
royalties or otherwise.
25. The Publisher agrees to produce the said literary work within 365 days from the date of the
signing of this agreement by both parties thereto, provided Publisher is not hindered by causes beyond
its own control, or by the Author.
26. This agreement shall be binding on, and inure to the benefit of, the executors, administrators, heirs
and assigns of Author, and the successors and assigns of Publisher. No assignment by Author shall
be binding on Publisher without the written consent of the Publisher; provided, however, that Author
may assign or transfer any monies due, or to become due to him, hereunder.
27. The Author covenants and represents that the said literary work has not hitherto been published
in book form; that it contains no matter that, when published, will be libelous or otherwise unlawful,
or which will infringe upon any proprietary interest at common law or statutory copyright; that the
Author is the sole proprietor of the said literary work and has full power to make this grant and
agreement, and that the said work is free of any lien, claim, charge or debt of any kind, and that the
Author and his legal successors and/or representatives will hold harmless and keep indemnified the
Publisher from all manner of claims, proceeding and expenses which may be taken or incurred on the
ground that said work is subject to any such lien, claim, charge or debt, or that it is such violation,
or that it contains anything libelous or illegal.
28. The provisions of this agreement shall apply to and bind the heirs, executors, administrators and
assigns of the Author, and the successors and assigns of the Publisher.
29. All unresolved disputes and controversies of any kind and nature within the scope of this
agreement (whether arising from fraud, mistake, questions of the existence, validity, construction,
performance, nonperformance, operation, or breach) shall be submitted to an Arbitrator selected in
accordance with the Voluntary Labor Arbitration Rules of the American Arbitration Association. The
arbitration shall be conducted in the City of Frederick, Maryland in accordance with the Arbitration
Rules, and the decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding on the parties to the proceeding,
subject only to the right of judicial relief as prescribed by law. This agreement shall be governed and
construed in accordance with the laws of the State of Maryland. Author and Publisher irrevocably
submit to the jurisdiction of any Maryland State or Federal court sitting in the City of Frederick over
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any suit related to this agreement.
30. Any written notice required under any of the provisions of this agreement shall be deemed to have
been properly served by delivery in person or by mailing same to the parties hereto at their addresses
as of the date set forth above, except as the addresses may be changed by notice in writing, provided,
however, that notices of termination shall be sent by registered mail.
31. A waiver of any breach of this agreement or of any of the terms or conditions by either party
hereto, shall not be deemed a waiver of any repetition of such breach or in any way affect any other
terms or conditions hereof; no waiver shall be valid or binding unless it shall be in writing, and signed
by the parties.
32. The Author will upon furnishing the Publisher with said literary work in its final version, as an
electronic file, receive an advance dollar amount of $ 1 (one) , which will be charged against
royalties due to the Author.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties hereto set their hands and seal the day first above written.
_________________________ __________________________
for PublishAmerica, Inc., AUTHOR
General Partner
_________________________ __________________________
Witness Witness
__________________________
Author’s Social Security Number
 

lastr

Re: Contract

Plates?? Sewing?? Where or should I ask when, did this contract originate.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Contract

Plates?? Sewing?? Where or should I ask when, did this contract originate.

Drop over to the "49 copies" thread, lastr, for a full discussion of that paragraph.
 
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