Let's Do the (head) Hop!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
8,049
Reaction score
770
Location
Clearlake Park, CA
Website
www.strokingthepen.com
For as long as I have been writing, a very long time, I have been told head hopping is taboo, a no-no. When you change point of view of a character, you make it clear with a section or chapter break.

Recently, I found book titled Mistaken Identity, a true life account of families finding out their children in an accident- one dead and the other in the hospital-had switched identities. The book is written by the two involved families and a published religious author. The publisher is an imprint of Simon and Schuster.

The head hopping is prevalent from the start, but I think I know why. From the beginning, the writers made it clear that all people in the situation have been equally effected.

I don't get the sense the story is being told in omniscient point of view.

I don't think it's working because I want to sympathize with someone, even though it's a true life account.

Have you seen any other books, whether fiction or non-fiction, where head hopping has worked? This might be a silly little subject, but I would love to hear your thoughts.
 
Last edited:

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
9,316
Reaction score
1,064
Age
72
Location
Out side the beltway...
Only in omniscient do I accept such head hopping, though right now I can not think of any tittles off hand.
 

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
8,049
Reaction score
770
Location
Clearlake Park, CA
Website
www.strokingthepen.com
Nick,

it's non-fiction. In the prologue, the authors said they combined some events for readability. I don't know, it does not remind me of omniscient.

I have read some non-fiction true crime stories, but I have never encountered this blatant style of writing.
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,311
I tried reading it. It comes across as poorly written omniscient to me.
 

smcc360

I've Got An MFA In LEO
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
595
Reaction score
165
Location
New York
Only in omniscient do I accept such head hopping, though right now I can not think of any tittles off hand.

Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove hopped around a lot, as do Jonathan Hayes's mystery novels Precious Blood and A Hard Death. It's very effective the way they do it, with no doubt about when or to whom the POV has shifted.
 

Phaeal

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
9,232
Reaction score
1,897
Location
Providence, RI
Thanks. Now The Rocky Horror Writers' Workshop is playing in my overworked brain:

Let's do the Head Hop again! Let's do the Head Hop again!

In the Glee version.
 

V. Greene

Ditching the pseudonym
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
52
Reaction score
6
Location
Georgia, USA
Maeve Binchy's Evening Class head-hops a lot. It didn't bug me as much as it does when anyone else does it, but I did still notice it was happening, and I really hate noticing stylistic choices when I'm reading for fun.

Since an Irish writing buddy of mine also did it more than most Americans I know, I wondered idly if it was one of those geographic signatures that happen in the English language. England uses u's where America does not, Canada uses different commas, Ireland head-pops.... Thoughts?
 

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
8,049
Reaction score
770
Location
Clearlake Park, CA
Website
www.strokingthepen.com
V., excellent point. However, I read widely, and I don't find myself reading many fiction books with a lot of head-hopping. I have read some novels that do have head hopping, but it's usually pretty subtle.
 

Karen Junker

Live a little. Write a lot.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,719
Reaction score
551
Location
Bellevue, WA
Website
www.CascadeWriters.com
Nora Roberts is said to have never met a POV she didn't like. Her books have head-hopping like mad in them, yet the writing is so fluent it still works. You never really notice it because you get so caught up in the storytelling. Or at least I never notice it, even though she is famous for it.
 

Sarah Madara

Freeway stomper extraordinaire
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
1,062
Reaction score
154
Location
Procrastination Nation
Have you seen any other books, whether fiction or non-fiction, where head hopping has worked?

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo series seems to have a lot of head-hopping. The narration is technically omniscient, I think, but sloppy in its execution. I wouldn't say it works for me personally, but you can't argue with the sales.
 

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
8,049
Reaction score
770
Location
Clearlake Park, CA
Website
www.strokingthepen.com
Nora Roberts is said to have never met a POV she didn't like. Her books have head-hopping like mad in them, yet the writing is so fluent it still works. You never really notice it because you get so caught up in the storytelling. Or at least I never notice it, even though she is famous for it.

Karen, my cousin loves Nora Roberts. I think if the story is compelling and pulls me in, I notice head hopping less. I used to read Janet Daley, and now I recall she went from POV to POV within sentences.

Doesn't Nora Roberts write romance? I wonder if it's more prevalent in romance as well?

The book I quoted above is not so compelling in its execution that I can continue reading. But, I loved Janet Daley's books when I was younger!
 

Karen Junker

Live a little. Write a lot.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,719
Reaction score
551
Location
Bellevue, WA
Website
www.CascadeWriters.com
Most of the writers I know who write romance are aware of Nora's tendency to head-hop, so they try not to do it. I've taken several classes from romance authors who have advised against it. I believe it is generally accepted in the romance writing community that Nora can get away with it and that when we have written dozens of bestsellers, only then should we try to get away with it.

To answer Thoth- Nora writes in the POV of several characters. Definitely not omni.
 

kaitie

With great power comes
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
10,992
Reaction score
2,525
I read a recent Wilber Smith book that head hopped. I suppose one could argue that it was written in omniscient, but it didn't read that way to me. It seemed very solidly close third for the vast majority of the book, but then it would randomly switch to another character. It struck me as really unnecessary, but the man has written for so long I think he can get away with just about anything.

I've read others though where it doesn't bother me at all, so it just depends on how well done it is, I think.
 

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
8,049
Reaction score
770
Location
Clearlake Park, CA
Website
www.strokingthepen.com
I think if we have to figure out whether an author is writing in third or omniscient, then they the author is not doing their job very well. Stephen King writes a lot of omniscient, but it's clear what he's doing. He's starts that all knowing bigger scene. It always seems clear to me.
 

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
9,316
Reaction score
1,064
Age
72
Location
Out side the beltway...
From what I understand, and the way I read, the omniscient narrator does not have to always be distant. This narrator can zoom in close and still head hop.

I always wonder if omniscient is truly understood by most writers, especially when another author does it so well?
 

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
8,049
Reaction score
770
Location
Clearlake Park, CA
Website
www.strokingthepen.com
Nick,

I will admit that most times I know when I'm reading omniscient. The big teller for me is how it generally starts out with an all-knowing-all-seeing scene. However, I don't always know when I'm reading it, and I cannot certainly blame it each time on poor writing.

Now that I've looked at it more, I think the book I referred to in my original post is poorly written omniscient. The reason it threw me off is because it immediately starts in one head, then head hops during an important phone call.

At this juncture, I would not try to write omniscient because I don't know enough about his point of view. I would like to study it more.
 

shelleyo

Just another face in a red jumpsuit
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 9, 2010
Messages
2,126
Reaction score
342
I've read several of Stephen King's books, though none for the past several years, and was never aware of head-hopping. It could be that I was so caught up in the story that it didn't jar me, but normally when someone switches POV within a scene, I notice and it bothers me.

I've recently samples some erotic romance titles from various epublishers, to see what types of stories they accept, how much sex, etc. so I know where to market a novella of mine. I was surprised at how much head-hopping took place in a couple of those. I don't know if those were from epublishers that simply don't edit well, or if it's something that's acceptable in the genre. It seemed designed to give each character's thoughts and level of excitement during sex scenes, and reminded me of really poorly done fan fiction, where the writing is low on the list of priorities but getting feelings across is number one.

I wouldn't want to read a whole book like that. But, as I said, if King does that, I have never noticed it, which says a lot. I'm going to have to pull out some of my books and sample chapters to prove to myself he did it and I didn't even catch it. :)

I wouldn't try to write it, because I'm sure it would be poorly done. I critiqued a couple of stories a few months ago and pointed out all the POV problems, and had the writer tell me they were in omniscient. I must not have a grip on it.

Shelley
 
Last edited:

Linda Adams

Soldier, Storyteller
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
4,422
Reaction score
639
Location
Metropolitan District of Washington
Website
www.linda-adams.com
From what I understand, and the way I read, the omniscient narrator does not have to always be distant. This narrator can zoom in close and still head hop.

I always wonder if omniscient is truly understood by most writers, especially when another author does it so well?

I write in omniscient. One of the first things I noticed was that writers would point fingers at an omni book and accuse the author of breaking the rules by "head hopping." Well done omni never head hops. It's one narrator telling us what the characters think, not multiple viewpoints. That's a hard concept to understand -- I've even some published craft books that get it really, really wrong.

Most often, well-done omni is mistaken for a more traditional third person.
 

Karen Junker

Live a little. Write a lot.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,719
Reaction score
551
Location
Bellevue, WA
Website
www.CascadeWriters.com
The Nora Roberts books I've read were not omniscient. They were written in the POV of multiple characters and did, in fact, head-hop. Going into the thoughts of multiple characters does not equal omniscient narrator. There must be a consistent narrative voice for the omniscient narrator, which Roberts did not use in those books of hers that I've read.
 

shelleyo

Just another face in a red jumpsuit
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 9, 2010
Messages
2,126
Reaction score
342
The Nora Roberts books I've read were not omniscient. They were written in the POV of multiple characters and did, in fact, head-hop. Going into the thoughts of multiple characters does not equal omniscient narrator. There must be a consistent narrative voice for the omniscient narrator, which Roberts did not use in those books of hers that I've read.

I've never read her. Is it head-hopping that's just done so well it's not a problem, or do you think it's that readers of that genre don't care as long as they get the romance storyline? Maybe that genre enjoys seeing what everyone's thinking all the time, so it's acceptable? The two or three romances I've read were some years ago, Zebra historicals because that's what my mother inhaled. I don't recall head-hopping in those, but it's been a while.

Shelley
 
Status
Not open for further replies.