Re: HConn has the right of it.
okay pixel, i give up. i'm convinced. take pity on me (TPOM).
about pov, of which i found the discussion fascinating, i finally got around to reading "the alchemist" and just love what coehlo does with a limited third pov concerning the shepherd, his hero. whenever the shepherd moves out of range coehlo shifts gracefully to the pov of someone else who happens to still be in scene, with a break in the text, and then back again. i used to hate omn.pov because though it worked for the classics it just seemed boring now. i wrote something with the pov hopping all over and the agent i sent it to sent it back by return mail, saying, be omnisicent (you fool)! lately i've been noticing the shift toward first pov and thinking, aha now you're catching up to me, fell publishable writers! so i wrote out the first draft of my last piece in first and boy was it quick and easy. a sort of MacDonald's (not you jim, the burger) of writing. very passionate but withal full of garbage. plenty of vomit in the true sense of the word. now i'm working with limited tpov and a main character who is not only a highly efficient killer, but an inhuman one at that. and you're supposed to like him! well, takes all kinds.
btw i think those who dissed higgins clark so bad on her word choice may have been missing her apparent attempt, and not a bad one, to portray a certain class of a certain age. that stilted kind of language is not used in 30-something hangouts, but it may be found on newport beach or the hamptons, or even santa fe.
jim, i really look forward to your thoughts on outlines. you didn't mention them at first, then casually say yours, hashed out in the first few weeks, are 75% !!! of the length of the eventual book. pardon my asking, but are you nuts? an outline that long is the book, sans a little description. could we get back to the skeletal stage a little more?
you seem to be saying your outlines are more in the nature of 3D topographic maps, charting the rise and fall of subplots like foothills in the gradual climb to the mountains of climax etc. without an eventual end in mind, the positional playing up near the front may lose momentum and stall out. but TPOM! these book things seem to spring fully formed from your forehead like Greek monsters! for those of us who lack your last fifteen years, could you be a bit more detailed, and slow down, about the creative process?
finally, and speaking of which, your discussion of plot seemed a little glossy to me. it was mainly "you need to get one!" or "plots move things along!" or some combination, but nothing much in depth except your rec of Sweeny Todd in Concert, which i'll try to track down. but think of your explanation of steven king's book -- how helpful was that? -- and see, i most humbly request, if there's more you can add along that line to this point.
i'll be posting a little intro piece on me for explanation soon. sorry i'm so long winded. am i putting off bic over my tiger book? maybe.