Old People Writing for Teens, IV

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JKRowley

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When writing through the muck, some days I feel accomplished to get a paragraph or two down. Sometimes it is a matter of getting through a sticky part before it gets fun again.

Sage, I am glad you mentioned your paranormal bromance. I wondered about that. It disappeared from your siggy.

I always loved the idea of visiting a place to get its feel as research for a novel. Google Earth can help, but I prefer to look at maps, check weather patterns, talk to locals. Setting novels in real places feels more authentic. How many people wanted to go to Forks after the Twilight thing? I think you should be brave and set it in Dublin and work your patootie off to make it authentic. If you don't get it perfect, people will forgive you. The book, "The Art of Fielding" is set in Wisconsin at a fictitious college. As a native of the area, the errors in real places doesn't bother me as much as the fake university.
 

Hapax Legomenon

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I think I am writing YA but then again I think the pacing is totally off for YA, so I'm not sure what to do. :/
 

Hapax Legomenon

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My project is some kind of horrible fantasy/cyberpunk/alternate history hybrid. The main character is 19 years old, but where/when he lives the age of majority is something ridiculously high (like 23 or 25, I don't quite remember which) so I'm not really worried about him being considered a "teen." It also deals with some normal teen issues, like broken homes, stalking, drug abuse, mental illness, being worshipped as a god, mass suicide, cannibalism, etc. Most of the other main characters are adults, but they're not viewpoints. I also think one of my characters used up the entire swearing quota for a YA book in three consecutive lines, but I always swear a lot in my initial drafts and I don't really think that's that hard to fix?

I guess my main problem is pacing. The vast majority of YA science fiction and fantasy I've read seem heavily plot-driven and fast paced. I don't want to say nothing has happened in the first 20,000 words, but it's still not obvious what the main plot is. I feel like my writing style in general is just very slow and it kind of has to be.
 
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Stiger05

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Hi Hap! Welcome to the Old Folks!

The main determination of YA, besides age, is voice and themes. As long as those are in line, I'd say you're good. You might post over in SYW for better feedback on that.

Are you still working on your first draft? It doesn't have to be fast-paced, but I think the main plot needs to be apparent fairly early on, or else your reader won't have a reason to be invested, you know? ACROSS THE UNIVERSE didn't hit the floor running, but was more of a slow-build--for me anyway.

It's common for a first draft to drag a bit. It sounds like you have quite a bit of back story in the beginning. You may realize once you finish and start revising that you can start in a different place, maybe one that brings the plot to the surface sooner, and can thread some of that world-building/back story in more.

Of course it's hard to say based only on what you've given us, but it might be something to consider.
 

Hapax Legomenon

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I think a big chunk of it is that the main character has to meet and get to know a lot of people, and that there's a ton of quiet worldbuilding going on. I also think that there's no way that the plot is going to be evident at the beginning because the story doesn't have a tight plot in the first place.
 

Bing Z

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Welcome, Haphazard,

Twenty thousand words to build into the main plot is slow, I'd say. I'm in a similar situation in that I'd like to start my story a lot later but I'm doing it sooner cuz I want to introduce the other characters slowly (2-3 each chapter). But the inciting Incident happens before the start of my book, so the main plot is already in progress from page 1. The progress is just slow while I paint the characters.

Can you do something like this? Instead of having the villain steal the spaceship in chapter 10, can he steal it in chapter 1 or chapter 0 (ie already stolen when story starts), blow up something early on for visual effect, then go slow while the MC meets other chars?
 

jtrylch13

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How do you all decide when to cut yourself some slack, and when to power through?

Sometimes, if I'm feeling uninspired or sluggish about writing, I'll go back to the beginning of my novel and start reading. At least I'm doing something useful (editing) and sometimes it reminds me why I loved the project so much to start with. Sometime I'll do a little research or work on my online author presence or even just read a book. Yes, we need to write to get it done, but all the things I've mentioned are useful toward my hopeful career and I don't feel like I'm "cheating" on being a writer. That being said, everyone needs a mini-break from writing sometimes. I find it gets my creative juices flowing and allows me to renew my enthusiasm for what I'm working on.


Hi Lisa!

I guess my main problem is pacing. The vast majority of YA science fiction and fantasy I've read seem heavily plot-driven and fast paced. I don't want to say nothing has happened in the first 20,000 words, but it's still not obvious what the main plot is. I feel like my writing style in general is just very slow and it kind of has to be.

Just a thought, but your project might be New Adult or even adult. A lot of adult novels have young protags. Obviously I haven't read your work, so this is just an opinion, but world building and character building can be worked into a plot. Plot is often extremely important, no matter the age group or genre. Read something somewhere that said every chapter/scene should do one of two things: build plot or build character, preferably both. Too much world building/character development will kill a novel before it gets started. Maybe you can try to build characters/world while the action is happening.
 

Stiger05

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Plot is one of those things that can be defined differently depending on the story. Google images of plot and you get the standard diagram: exposition, rising action, climax, falling action, resolution. For example: Harry Potter finds out he's a wizard and is invited to a wizarding school (exposition), where he learns he's a special wizard, and uncovers a plan for Lord Voldemort to take over the world (rising action), which he must stop with the help of his friends (climax), then he realizes the ramifications of what he saw/did (falling action), and finishes his school year/returns to the ordinary world until next year (resolution).

The plot starts on page one, where we find out about the world our characters live in--ordinary--except our characters have a secret, the world is not quite so ordinary after all. The first page parallels the entire book plot: everything is not as it seems. The world, Harry, Voldemort, etc.

I have read jtrylch13's advice in several places: each scene/chapter either needs to build plot or character. I've even read that each sentence should either build plot or character or it should be cut. It's not a definitive rule by any means (just look at Tolkien *shudders*), but it's a handy rule of thumb to make sure your story doesn't drag. There's nothing wrong with a slow pace, or slow moving plot, just make sure it doesn't drag.

My advice is to finish your draft and enlist a beta or two and see what kind of feedback they give. Also, keep an eye on word-count. 90-100k is about the max for a YA fantasy. Too much less and it probably lacks necessary world-building, too much more and it's probably too expository. You want to keep it in the sweet spot.
 
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Hapax Legomenon

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Well, if I say the main plot is doubt coming to fruition, then the plot starts on page one, but it needs a very long period to simmer.
 

Sage

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Sage, I am glad you mentioned your paranormal bromance. I wondered about that. It disappeared from your siggy.

Poor aPB suffered from RL depressing me out of writing just as the revisions got hard. But I still plan to work on it. I don't think it's something I need to try and hit a market or anything (ETA: I mean a market timeframe), but I love those boys so much. I'm definitely going to work on it. I even have ideas for a sequel.

I had to revamp my sig because it had a lot of abandoned projects on it, and I wasn't sure exactly what I was going to be working on when I came back to AW
 
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KSavoie

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Sometimes, if I'm feeling uninspired or sluggish about writing, I'll go back to the beginning of my novel and start reading. At least I'm doing something useful (editing) and sometimes it reminds me why I loved the project so much to start with.

I love this idea! I never thought about doing this. Definitely going to have to start.
 

lisalulu09

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Hi, guys.

One of these Camp Wrimos, I think I'm going to rewrite or restart one of my YA Contemporaries in third person, because I'm confident in that person right now, and my CP has said I'm better in third person compared to first person.

I guess we'll see when I finish PANDORA'S GIFT though.
 

jtrylch13

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Maybe I am not sure how you are defining plot.

Like Stiger05 said, plot can be a lot of things. Short answer would be: anything that moves the story forward. I don't mean to sound negative, because like I said, I haven't read your work and I'm not sure what your writing goals are, but too much "simmering" can turn a majority of readers off. If you are an established writer like Christopher Paolini, you can expostulate until the cows come home and no publisher will turn you down, but beginners (like me and I assume you) have to cut the backstory and include only what is absolutely necessary. I struggle with this a lot. My first manuscript was a 130,000 MG novel. 130,000! That's like GOBLET OF FIRE long and I'm no JK Rowling. Had to cut and cut and cut until ultimately I knew the project wouldn't work. But that's just my story.

I know you mentioned you weren't sure the age range before, but it might be helpful to figure out your target audience. Then read everything you can get your hands on for the age group and genre. Maybe you've already done this, just trying to hand out some advice. Hope you have success!

I love this idea! I never thought about doing this. Definitely going to have to start.

Glad I could help
 

jtrylch13

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I do that way more than is probably healthy for my writing! :)

Yeah, the trick is to keep plowing through until you have a finished manuscript, then edit later, but sometimes it's helpful to get back on track. Especially if I find myself wander off into planting a rose garden. She dug the dirt. She planted the bulb. She watched it grow. etc. etc. etc. :)
 

Hapax Legomenon

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I don't mean simmering as in "backstory," I mean simmering as in "this is a psychological thriller and I need to take a long time to give the reader a sense of unease."
 

Christabelle

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Yeah, the trick is to keep plowing through until you have a finished manuscript, then edit later, but sometimes it's helpful to get back on track. Especially if I find myself wander off into planting a rose garden. She dug the dirt. She planted the bulb. She watched it grow. etc. etc. etc. :)
I've had trouble focusing lately, and I struggled with several chapters of my WIP, so I went back and started editing from the beginning. It got better, but it still didn't sound the way I wanted it to. I went back again, and it's heading toward the right track now. I think I'm ready to move forward with more chapters, and then I'll probably start editing again.

This WIP is moving more slowly than my previous one. It's harder to pin down the main conflict, and my characters have a tendency to chase their own SNIs. :) It's a weird story for me. I like it, BUT I don't know if I'm telling it right. I want to give it time to develop as it should.
 

jtrylch13

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I don't mean simmering as in "backstory," I mean simmering as in "this is a psychological thriller and I need to take a long time to give the reader a sense of unease."

Sometimes I will take a book I like, and dissect it. How many characters, word count, how many chapters, word count for chapters, how long does it take to get to the action, etc. I don't use it as a rule, but sort of an idea of how a successful book moves (pacing, complexity). If I find I am way off with my own MS, it gives me a ball park to head for. If your book is pacing similar to the sort of book you want to produce, then you're right on track.
 

Hapax Legomenon

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I am not sure what kind of book I want to produce. On one hand one of the big inspirations is Neuromancer, and on the other it's Homestuck, and the pacing of both of those are very, very different, and you could say that neither one's pacing is actually good.
 

jtrylch13

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Haphazard - You may need to go with Stiger05's advice. Finish your draft and work with some betas. It may be your book is right on target and where it should be. Plenty of writers (JK Rowling included) have said they didn't write for a certain age group, but wrote what they wanted to say. The age group/genre found them. This may be your case as well. Just keep writing and see where it takes you!
 

Bing Z

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I've had trouble focusing lately, and I struggled with several chapters of my WIP, so I went back and started editing from the beginning. It got better, but it still didn't sound the way I wanted it to. I went back again, and it's heading toward the right track now. I think I'm ready to move forward with more chapters, and then I'll probably start editing again.

This is also my dilemma. I must have gone through the earlier chapters a (or two) dozen times.

Among the bugs, my original secondary plot line (packing orders at school) was too plain/happy/conflict-less and I'm revamping it, but every evening during shower (my brainstorm time) I'll figure out something wrong with my intended approach and thus its become an eternal back-and-forth struggle. I'm now trying to skip school plot and move on with the main plot. I'm not sure how this approach will work. It's kinda frustrating. I think I need more whiskey and ice cream.
 
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