Robins Agency / Writer for Hire (Cris Robins)

DaveKuzminski · Mar 24, 2006

Originally Posted by cris_robins
. . . the hits to our site are going through the roof.

Just means people want to see what a train wreck looks like.

Kasey Mackenzie · Mar 24, 2006

I know that's why _I_ clicked. Plus I'm rather chagrined such a delusional scammer lives (and scams) so near me.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 24, 2006

Woo!

I trust everyone who's read this far can see through Cris's rot.

Line-by-line tomorrow.

triceretops · Mar 24, 2006

There are times when reverse psychology works. This is not one of them.

Tri

aruna · Mar 25, 2006

Aconite said:
Amusingly enough, PublishAmerica tried to use this same tactic when outed in a scathing article in a major national newspaper. Apparently, a certain personality type thinks we'll actualy believe that our work to warn people off is having the opposite effect, and that we'll be so devastated at the thought of driving people into the arms of bad companies that we'll stop warning people about them.

Hey, pigs could fly, too.

I think it's damage control. She knows that googlers of her name will find this thread and so she writes that in a vain attempt to undo the damage done.

mdin · Mar 25, 2006

If you google Robins Agency, her website comes up first, but PE is second, this thread is third, and fourth is Making Light: Want to see a scam in progress?

If you google Cris Robins, this thread actually appears above the Robins Agency's website. That's gotta burn.

aruna · Mar 25, 2006

XThe NavigatorX said:
If you google Robins Agency, her website comes up first, but PE is second, this thread is third, and fourth is Making Light: Want to see a scam in progress?

If you google Cris Robins, this thread actually appears above the Robins Agency's website. That's gotta burn.

Googling from the UK her site is not on the first page at all; P &E and this thread are in places 1 and 2.

eldragon · Mar 25, 2006

So, we all know she hasn't sold any books for her clients.

How many people would fall for the $3200? They obviously found her online, and doing any quick search would yield pages and pages of complaints.

Who would be so desperate as to hire her?
For $3200, you can self publish ten times.

victoriastrauss · Mar 25, 2006

I think she may be hurting a bit in the client department. Last fall I heard from a couple of people who took Nancy Reagan's advice on the hard-sell phone approach (just say no) and subsequently got the following email:

Good afternoon.

Recently we contacted you about representing your work to publishers and film outlets alike; we'd still like to do that. But, there was a money issue. We believe getting strong representation for your work should never have to resort to being a matter of money.

We listened to you.

We know that coming up with the retainer can strain a budget; but, we still want to offer you a solid service. We are in the business of selling works; you've got a good work to sell; we see a good team between the two of us.

So, what's the new plan? Like many other agents, who charge out expenses as they are incurred, and many times you won't know what those expenses are until you get the bill, we've come up with a slightly different option.

What if we waived the retainer and instead kept the expenses to a flat $350 a month? What if we submitted your work and provided all the same marketing and editing services you need for monthly payments to be budgeted over the course of the contract? What if, like paying rent, to get this started you'd need only the first and last month's payment?

Is this doable? Is this a beter plan for you? We'd hate to see you pass up this opportunity over a money issue and are willing to work with you so you don't have to.

Let me know your thoughts. If this is a proposition you want to take advantage of, give me a call or drop me an e-mail and we'll start working on getting your project from the desktop to the bookshelf.

With grace,

Cris

- Victoria

PattiTheWicked · Mar 25, 2006

Oh, man. That's freakin' HILARIOUS! Instead of you paying us $3200, you can send us $350 a month, and we STILL won't sell your book!

Hurray for ingenuity!

roach · Mar 25, 2006

PattiTheWicked said:
Oh, man. That's freakin' HILARIOUS! Instead of you paying us $3200, you can send us $350 a month, and we STILL won't sell your book!

Hurray for ingenuity!

Not only that but you end up spending $1000 more on this "installment" plan. ($4200, rather than $3200).

eldragon · Mar 25, 2006

"We understand that you are a starving artist with a book to sell. How about, instead of paying rent or your car payment this month, or instead of eating, you invest in your future and send me your monthly payment?"

Where's the money back guarantee, Cris?

How come you need desperate, starving writers to pay your rent?

aruna · Mar 25, 2006

victoriastrauss said:
I think she may be hurting a bit in the client department. Last fall I heard from a couple of people who took Nancy Reagan's advice on the hard-sell phone approach (just say no) and subsequently got the following email:

- Victoria

That is downright CREEPY, I'd say! A real slimer!

aka eraser · Mar 25, 2006

Oh ye Absolute Writers of little faith! Did you not hear the poor woman? The lurkers, in the form of "the doctors, lawyers, judges, professionals and executives" support her in email for gawd's sake!

Can't we just accept her at her word?

No?

Okie dokie then.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 25, 2006

XThe NavigatorX said:
If you google Robins Agency, her website comes up first, but PE is second, this thread is third, and fourth is Making Light: Want to see a scam in progress?

If you google Cris Robins, this thread actually appears above the Robins Agency's website. That's gotta burn.

There's a more substantive mention of Cris Robins at Making Light. Cris, darling, if you think you've had hits before, I can all but guarantee you even more hits with a new article over there. Want to go for it?

Folks who are interested in agents, agenting, and the Robins Agency ought to check out two more resources: On the Getting of Agents and Ten Percent of Nothing. (You'll like that last one, Cris -- the part where Dorothy Deering gets four years in the Federal slammer is entertaining. Check out how the Deering Agency hadn't been convicted of anything ... until they were. Check out Dorothy offering payments on the installment plan.)

Y'all might be amused by mentions of Cris in other places.

Cris apparently has a couple of foreign sales: her sales page lists two books to Russian POD publisher Alpharet. (If you don't read Russian, BabelFish can help.) I don't know how "nice" the "nice deal" might have been. Under the rules of the game, a sale to PublishAmerica is a "nice deal."

=======================

I promised you a line by line. Here we go!

=======================

Had I known the response to my post would have generated the interest in our agency that it has, I would have done this years ago!

It's our great pleasure to be of help, Cris. Dorothy Deering had a lot of interest in her agency too, when her scam started to collapse.

Let me treat the rest of your points as if they were actually true, not just something you made up.

Our phones are ringing off the hook, our e-mail inbox is being flooded with submissions, and the hits to our site are going through the roof. Some of those who you turned away months ago are even coming back! And we welcome all of them for consideration.

The big consideration being "Do they have a couple of thousand bucks lying around that they aren't using?"

I entirely believe that hits to the site have gone up. The folks who are coming from here, or from Ann's blog, aren't going to yield you many sales, though, Cris. Those folks are already on to you.

Watch the submissions. Maybe one of them is Atlanta Nights. (Uh-oh! Now you're going to have to read the submissions!)

The responses are all positive!

Including "I'm positive you're a scammer!"

Some of the responses we are getting include:

n Don’t they know to infringe on copyright laws you have to say it’s yours?

No, not true. To infringe copyright, all you have to do is make a copy. That's what "copyright" means. And copyright, as you would know if you were an agent, flows from the pen.

n Don’t they know you get a copy of every thing submitted in a complaint, any complaint?

Usually the AG blocks out the personal identifying information such as phone numbers. Not that getting copies allows you to post those copies (see above, copyright). This leaves aside whether "please call me" is the same as backing down.

n You ONLY charge $3,250? My last agent charged me much, much more!

Your last agent was a scammer too. Your last agent didn't sell your book either, did he?

n If they are going to pick apart your own sale, what would they do to a client of yours? Don’t tell them!

Your sale hasn't been picked apart. And you don't have other sales, do you? Not to legitimate commercial publishers, that is. If pointing out that the sale isn't too impressive is "picking apart," well, make some impressive sales.

n If you don’t lose in a complaint, you win; or don’t they get that?

We'll see about that. Was there a real complaint? Merely hasn't yet been convicted isn't a great recommendation; not for a used car dealer, not for a Mafia knee-breaker, not for a literary agent.

n Can’t they read where you list the clients’ work that is FOR SALE, not sold?

We read it just fine. And that's the problem, isn't it? It's just FOR SALE, not SOLD. What are your sales, Cris? That's the standard by which literary agents are judged. What are the sales?

Here's your opportunity, right here, right now, to tell me: Titles, authors, publishers, dates. You've been doing this for nearly ten years now. You must have sold something other than your own book.

If you're an agent, that is.

n These guys are the experts in the industry and they can neither read nor understand?

I am, in fact, an expert in this industry. I can read just fine, and I understand all too well what you're up to.

n Don’t they have anything better to do with their time?

Nope! If I can save some writer $3,250, I figure it's time well spent. Speaking of time, how about the time those writers could be using to look for legitimate representation or publication, but aren't, because their books are stuck with you? You aren't going to get them any sales so the time their books are in your hands is wasted.

Looking at that most recent client list of yours, it looks like you hauled in $94,250 this year, without having to sell a single book. Good work, Cris.

Those are just from the writers – the doctors, lawyers, judges, professionals and executives who have been looking for a professional agent who knows how to give them the respect and customer service they can’t find with other agents.

Have any of them had any sales? Proof of the pudding, y'know.

The publishers who have contacted us are even more impressed with our attitude as they’ve been looking to work with another agent who doesn’t come with excuses but delivers on their promises. (Our requests for submissions are higher than ever!)

I think I can name those publishers, too: PublishAmerica, AuthorHouse, Xlibris, Vantage, Trafford, Dorrance ....

I really cannot thank all of you enough. I couldn’t buy this kind of publicity. People aren’t stupid; they know there is no such thing as a free lunch; and now, you’ve given them the outlet they’ve been looking to find.

Quite right, Cris. People aren't stupid. What do you think is going to happen when those doctors, lawyers, and judges start to compare notes? Hint: Dorothy Deering.

Please, keep up the good work!

With grace,

Cris Robins

Oh, I intend to.

With disdain,

Jim Macdonald

eldragon · Mar 25, 2006

If you pay an agent several thousands of dollars up front, why would she/he be motivated to sell your book?

Roger J Carlson · Mar 26, 2006

cris_robins said:
The responses are all positive! Some of the responses we are getting include:

n Don’t they know to infringe on copyright laws you have to say it’s yours?

n Don’t they know you get a copy of every thing submitted in a complaint, any complaint?

n You ONLY charge $3,250? My last agent charged me much, much more!

n If they are going to pick apart your own sale, what would they do to a client of yours? Don’t tell them!

n If you don’t lose in a complaint, you win; or don’t they get that?

n Can’t they read where you list the clients’ work that is FOR SALE, not sold?

n These guys are the experts in the industry and they can neither read nor understand?

n Don’t they have anything better to do with their time?

See, this is what happens when you start talking to yourself. You loose touch with reality. <shakes head> Very sad.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 26, 2006

[font=arial,helvetica]Here's part of what Agent Research & Evaluation has to say about Cris:

We have never found an independent record of a sale made by this agent/agency in the public record sources in the US, UK and Canada that we have been tracking since 1980. Moreover, we are aware of complaints about the business practices of this agent/agency.

Such complaints usually involve charges made before a manuscript is sold, such as editing charges, referrals to paid editing services, recommendations of so-called co-publishing deals, and the like.

If anyone here happens to be a client of The Robins Agency -- ask yourself this: why do you need an agent to submit your book to a vanity press? The vanity publishers will accept anything you send them, as long as your check clears.

[/font]

MadScientistMatt · Mar 26, 2006

cris_robins said:
Our phones are ringing off the hook, our e-mail inbox is being flooded with submissions, and the hits to our site are going through the roof.

Did anyone else wonder if this might mean somebody has hit the Robins Agency with a distributed denial-of-service attack?

DaveKuzminski · Mar 26, 2006

Personally, I think she needs the Atlanta Nights treatment. The more time she spends considering manuscripts, the less she has to defraud anyone.

CaoPaux · Mar 27, 2006

DaveKuzminski said:
Personally, I think she needs the Atlanta Nights treatment. The more time she spends considering manuscripts, the less she has to defraud anyone.

Alas, that presumes she actually considers the mss (or anything beyond the depth of the writers' wallet).

HapiSofi · Mar 27, 2006

Julie Worth said:
A while back I asked Chris about her sales, and she replied: "...as to our sales; well, the truth is I used to tell the world what our sales were in detail. And every single time I did, someone would call the publisher and yell at them because they bought someone elses' book and not theirs. So, I quit doing it. Why would I cause a publisher grief when I didn't have to?"

Hogwash.

Real agents report sales all the time. And guess what? Publishers are not harassed by writers phoning up to yell at us because we bought someone else's book but not theirs.

It's sad to see that in spite of all her years of practice, Cris Robins is still an inept liar.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 29, 2006

There's a reason it seems bogus for an agent to refuse to list his or her sales. That's because it is bogus.

The nature of an agent's job is to be the writer's public face, the writer's contact point. There are no such things as stealth sales. There's no such thing as a stealth agent.

At the very minimum, when a book shows up in a bookstore someone is going to figure out that the publisher bought that book. If authors were going to call up publishers and lambast them for buying someone else's book they could do it at that point. But, as HapiSofi pointed out, that just doesn't happen.

Consider this ... Big Guy Producer in Hollywood reads a certain book. He wants to buy the movie rights. He turns to his assistant and says, "I love this book! Get this guy's agent on the phone! ... What do you mean 'no one knows who it is'?"

The agent is the contact point for anyone who wants to do business with the author. From Gladys in Accounting who cuts the semi-annual royalty checks to the editor who signs the contract to the foreign-rights guys ... everyone has to know who the agent is.

It is also observably true that real agents, the ones who actually make sales, list their sales all the time.

The only plausible -- the only possible -- reason for an agent to refuse to list her sales is that there aren't any.

Bannick · Apr 1, 2006

How's does the writer's world work?

I've stumbled upon this web site from browsing for an agent. I am a new Author, still trying to get the kinks worked out of my first book. I can't help but notice how all you guys keep talking about how you shouldn't have to pay for an agent up front (only after a sale) and if you do pay an agent up front it's a scam. All the agents i've come across who supposedly don't charge say that if I don't have a book already out on the shelves they won't even look at my manuscript. All the agents that say they will look at my work, charge. So what's the deal? If there are agent's out there that will get you the best publishing deals, with out charging, and will look at your work even if its the first thing you've written who and where are they? I'm new at this writting thing and because of that I'm sure I'm a bit naive. So, then how does it work?

aruna · Apr 1, 2006

Welcome to the Water Cooler, Bannick, and hope you stick around!

I have to contracdict the following sentence of yours:

All the agents i've come across who supposedly don't charge say that if I don't have a book already out on the shelves they won't even look at my manuscript.

It's just not true that legitimate agents won't look at manuscripts by unpublished authors.... I'd love to know which ones you've spoken to. Most agents are looking for new authors constantly; what you have to do is write a book that they fall in love with and think they can sell to a publisher. If you haven't got that then you won't get an agent, and if you have got it you need to write an engaging query that makes them want to read it.

At least three first-time authors of this forum have found excellent agents in the last few months, and before the year is over I bet a few more will do so.
Try www.agentquery.com. It tells you which agents are actively seeking new clients. Write a great query, and sent it in. If the first few attempts fail, then rewrite your query (perhaps with the help of experienced folk here) and try again.

Remember, too, that first attempts rarely are good enough to sell. If this one doesn't get you there then write another one... it's perseverance and constant honing your work that will get you in the door.
Good luck!

Robins Agency / Writer for Hire (Cris Robins)

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