The sad, sad state of college English

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Sassee

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This only changes if people want it to... and while I hear a lot of complaining about this and many other issues, I see little action on actually changing said issues. The people I hear complain about public schools still send their kids there. Kids I hear complain about high school / college / whatever still continue to go to school. Or they drop in frustration. No one likes fighting the system, so they continue to go on about their lives and complain about it. It's less effort to simply complain, after all. And so far, in my relatively short life, I don't see a difference in this attitude between generations.

I believe the phrase that goes with the above paragraph is - "oh snap."

/eyebrow
 

Ciera_

What's worse than atrocious writing from students?
Teachers who make grammatical mistakes in the notes they tell us to copy.
My English teacher, thank god, doesn't do this, but my Social teacher is particularly bad for it. There is not much worse than having to sit there and stare at the offending apostrophes in, say, 'This legislation gave Anglophone's and Francophone's specific rights.'
Of course I would like nothing more than to disentangle myself from my desk and run up to the whiteboard and just...make it go away! And I might, too, if the teacher wasn't one of those really young guys who thinks he's the coolest and relates every single topic, somehow, to hockey. One of those people who gives the impression that if you proved him wrong, he'd spend the rest of the year holding a grudge and trying to find ways to return the favor.
Yes, I'm a teeny bit unhappy with that particular class.
Anyway, more on topic, students today, as a whole, are not very committed to their education, and many of them just plain unintelligent. That's the impression I get from being surrounded by them every day.There are lots of really smart ones, but the number of people who are passing by some miracle or on the pity of a 'nice' teacher is frightening. I cannot picture most of my classmates in any workplace five years from now, I don't understand how they can build a life on what they take out of the school system.
For the most part, the teachers are pretty good. By the time I reached Jr. High they stopped doing the 'everybody's special' and 'there're no losers!' stuff so blatantly, but they still pass kids who definitely do not know half of the material.
What does this mean for me? It can be a little irritating, but overall I see it as a good thing. Less competition. If that is 'average', then I must be fabulous in the eyes of employers!
In several thousand years when we've devolved to the point where apostrophes are unheard of, I might change my mind.
 

Mr Flibble

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Apparently Nivarion was talking about speech not actual writing - which of course was what we were talking about. An Englishman once told his Granny that English people have dialects.

Which obviously equates to us having a completely crap education system. I mean all you yanks sound the same don't you, with no accents? /end sarcasm

ETA: thanks for the reps guys - I wasn't actually offended more confused. But the PM made everything clear. And unintentionally hilarious.
 

NeuroFizz

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In college, it's been even worse for her. It depends on the professors, really. Fortunately, mine tend to be pretty understanding. Hers, not so much, especially lab classes. Most labs, you miss a lab, you're down to like a B or C best--miss two, you fail. When you have viral pneumonia and a broken foot and written notes from the health center's doctor requesting you please be excused, and that's not good enough for the professor... Come on!
I'm sorry. We are obligated by the Faculty Handbook, directives from the administration, (and even) common sense and fair play to work with students with documented absenses due to medical or personal issues. We are obligated to find ways to allow those students to make up missed work. If we don't we will be in huge trouble (as will the university). If your friend has found professors who will not accept medical excuses, your friend needs to get her butt into the department chair's office right away. Period. What you have described has never happened in my nearly three decades of university experience. Does that mean it never happens? I strongly suspect not. But when it does, there are immediate and powerful actions the student can take. Advise your friend accordingly.

On the other hand, I've had students claim they should be given make-up work because they set their digital alarm for p.m. instead of a.m., because it was raining (I guess they don't realize we do hold our classes indoors), and because it was the last day of a big sale at a local store (not kidding). These students gain a much more important lesson in personal responsibility if I don't cave and give them a make-up opportunity because if they pull that crap in the working world, they'll be unemployed very quickly. Aren't we supposed to be training students for that working world in our educational institutions? And believe me, some of the most important lessons students learn in college have nothing to do with course materials. Those important lessons they learn are about themselves.
 
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NeuroFizz

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one way i think we could revamp it is to put people in specialized classes.

i am a hands on learner. i think in terms of what i can see and feel. i also learn fast, especially if i can put what i am reading, into things i can see and feel.

one of my brothers is a book learner. he works well with learning from textbooks.

be both learn very fast.

now what i think would be best is if they took all the hands on learners and put them in one class with a hands on teacher. took all of the book learners and put them in a class with a book teacher.
Then, of course, you'd better find an employer who works best with hands-on learners, and your brother better find an employer who is best with book learners. And of course in between, you'll have to select all of your college professors by the same criteria (if you go to college). Ultimately, it's not the world that has to adapt to the individual. It's the individual who has to adapt to the world. We can't possibly find the perfect niche for us every step of our way from school years to death. Just when should we start teaching students to do some adapting? When they go for their first job interview?

The educational system isn't anywhere near perfect at any level. But it can't be expected to customize its curriculum for hundreds of millions of individuals the way it is currently organized. I agree there are numerous cases where great harm has been done to individuals, and in hindsight, different courses of action should have been found. But imagine a school teacher who has little respect from the students (we see some of it here in this thread) and virtually none from some of the parents, who has to deal with the emotional tightropes of children from split and splitting families, from children who have no discipline, who haven't been taught to respect any kind of authority. Now, pay these teachers just above the poverty level and tell them to shut up because they get their summers off (without pay by the way, so most have to find summer employment--some doing things not much above flipping burgers). Next, require them to also judge what kind of learning is best for each individual student and provide a customized curriculum for each and every student. Don't hold your breath on that one. But guess what...some teachers still do that very thing. Don't be shocked that the majority of teachers don't have the time or energy to do this, though. (My daughter is one of those teachers who tries to do this, but there aren't enough hours in the day when she has over 32 students in her class and she is expected to prepare them all for the myriad of standardized and evaluative tests that dominate public education these days.)
 
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Nivarion

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Nivarion--

You are, by your own admission, very young so please take this in the appropriate context.



There are differences in pronunciation between UK English and American English. The American spellings/pronunciation are not automatically right; Idiots' pronunciation of aluminum is correct because she is a native UK English speaker. Besides, she was making a joke. Her comment should have been taken in the appropriate context. If you're going to criticize a cultural difference within the same linguistic family, you should endeavor to ascertain that your native use of the English language is correct--spelled correctly, punctuated correctly and capitalized correctly. Once it is, people will be more inclined to take you seriously.

You have a great deal to learn about the English language. Your time would be better spent in learning the correct usages of American English--and in understanding that different countries have different forms of the language. Pay attention in your classes and absorb the information that your teacher is offering you. Take some time to educate yourself in the intricacies of language--which you can do very easily on this site and others. Above all, read as much as you can. If you want to be a writer, then language is your greatest tool. You are selling yourself short if you allow complacency to prevent you from acquiring the skill and basic comprehension you need in order to write well.


am i really that bad at making it sure that i was telling a joke too? because i was.

gosh did no one else see the humor in that? "You say aluminum funny" "Is alu miny umn any better than Alum in umn"

what i meant by the brits stuff was well be writing as bad as they talk to each other, also meant to be funny...

(i really meant no offense to British people. and on another note, all but one branch of my family came from over there too, and we still have some of the accents hanging around)

i am not trying to be complacent, i just left out of the loop for a while, and i was alright with it. then i had this story form that i wanted to tell, so i have been teaching myself how to write better.

honestly you would have thrown me off as a spammer due to my writing skills just a year ago. i am still not good at writing but i have come a long long way. i have removed text speak from my writing in entirely, which consisted of most of it before i started. i know i am terrible at writing, i know this.

What i am saying that when they were supposed to be teaching me this stuff in school, back in elementary the guy in the back corner who was always making a fool of himself was getting to hog the teacher and continue even though he learned less than me, is unfair. since he learned differently, and when he got bored made a big distraction. so in my opinion if he had been kept with the other kids like him until he had learned to control it. And i had been kept with the other kids who needed the blinds down and the posters off the walls until we got control of the ADHD then every one would be better off.

and i will end by saying, Riddlein is of the devil and shouldn't be used to control us problem kids. it killed many of my friends personalities. my mom was the only thing that saved my from it too, and i eventually learned to control it and am just fine without any meds.
 

Mr. Anonymous

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Funny, but I don't think it's fair to generalize. This certainly is not "the state of college english."
 

Deleted member 42

What i am saying that when they were supposed to be teaching me this stuff in school, back in elementary the guy in the back corner who was always making a fool of himself was getting to hog the teacher and continue even though he learned less than me, is unfair. since he learned differently, and when he got bored made a big distraction.

Nivarion this is an absolute crock.

You are responsible for learning; you had opportunity and could, and can, avail yourself of it.

But you didn't and you aren't.

Your posts are barely intelligible--and you constantly find excuses and evade your responsibility in order to find fault and blame in others.

You have no concept of punctuation; you can't even be bothered to use sentence case (sentences begin with a capital letter). You don't even bother to spell check your posts).

You spend an inordinate amount of time whining and being complacent instead of actually working at improving your writing.

Cut it out and we might start taking you seriously.
 

2old2pb

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The way I see it this thread went from "hey, look at these funny grammatical and spelling mistakes" to "who is to blame for the sad, sad state of college English". The second sentiment might deserve its own thread.
 

willfulone

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Nivarion this is an absolute crock.

You are responsible for learning; you had opportunity and could, and can, avail yourself of it.

But you didn't and you aren't.

Your posts are barely intelligible--and you constantly find excuses and evade your responsibility in order to find fault and blame in others.

You have no concept of punctuation; you can't even be bothered to use sentence case (sentences begin with a capital letter). You don't even bother to spell check your posts).

You spend an inordinate amount of time whining and being complacent instead of actually working at improving your writing.

Cut it out and we might start taking you seriously.

I am going to RESPECTFULLY disagree with the part I bolded. A child of 6/7/8 does not have the skills/knowledge/understanding to avail him/her self of the tools they need to learn something. (full stop: I know N is not this young, but continue reading - please - before smacking on me too) They need a teacher (early on) to teach them the building blocks in order to AVAIL themselves later. If they do not receive the intial, necessary building blocks, the rest will be harder to learn later on. It will not make sense what they see when they get to middle/high school and many will give up the fight in the face of the confusion and lack of self-esteem for feeling "dumb" and/or being called the same.

I do not expect N to have the necessary skills to post in proper grammer if he was never given the initial (necessary) skill set from early on. And, I cannot know if he did or not. I suspect, he was missing some education long before high school based upon his posts and his own claims. Could be for his ADD, could be another issue with an unknown (to date) learning disability. Could be the school system in his area just plain sucks. I would not call him ignorant unless I KNEW he choose to NOT learn. He appears very interested in learning now and seems (also) to know his shortcomings. And, is working on them. There are other people (veterans) who do NOT use caps at the beginning of their sentences. I see several peeps posting in "IM" type lingo and such. I do not see them called out and embarrassed for the lack.

I have worked in the school system in Speech and Language Pathology with children who have issues learning. Even if they do not have a disability. And, I can tell you, that many sessions (1/2 days) were spent tending to the kids who were obnoxious, disturbed classes, took attention away from those who wanted to learn. Many classes were totally corrupted while students watched on as the teacher "calmed/placated/punished" an errant child or children causing trouble. A child like N in a situation like this may have lost a great deal of his ability to learn early on. And suffers for it now.

Leeway may be considered that this is a possiblity, rather than calling names and casting stone.

Ya know - respect your fellow AW member. Use that ignore button if you cannot tolerate somethings. As offered in the Newbie Guide.

Just sayin'

Christine
 

Deleted member 42

I have worked in the school system in Speech and Language Pathology with children who have issues learning. Even if they do not have a disability. And, I can tell you, that many sessions (1/2 days) were spent tending to the kids who were obnoxious, disturbed classes, took attention away from those who wanted to learn. Many classes were totally corrupted while students watched on as the teacher "calmed/placated/punished" an errant child or children causing trouble. A child like N in a situation like this may have lost a great deal of his ability to learn early on. And suffers for it now.

You know what?

I disagree, profoundly.

I'm not asking anyone to do anything I don't struggle with personally. I'm profoundly dyslexic. I was in special ed classes until 4th grade. I dropped out of high school. I struggle with writing all the time.

If I can manage to proof my posts and generally follow some sort of coherent sentence structure, I think it's not unreasonable to ask for the same level of respect from other posters. "Respect your fellow writers goes both ways."

We do have spell check, and even grammar check, so no, there's no excuse, and yes, it is profoundly disrespectful to other members and writers to expect them to unravel meaning when a writer can't be bothered to proof, particularly when many other members with a variety of neurological and linguistic challenges manage to proof and take the time to write carefully.
 

MacAllister

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Actually, I'm going to point out that Medievalist has been a professional educator for a number of years.

If you guys want to let Nivarion's barely-disguised racist screed pass, that's your business. Don't expect everyone to feel nearly so charitable. I certainly don't.

Then I'm going to close the thread.
 
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