Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Lilybiz · Mar 5, 2007

I, too, would like to know how to use that search function more effectively. Thanks for asking, Brenda.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 5, 2007

You could go to one of the digest pages (Undiluted) and use your browser's "Find On This Page" function.

For more general stuff, use Google.

Go to Google and in the search string type site:absolutewrite.com "Learn Writing With Uncle" (yes, use the quote marks) then your search terms. That seems to work pretty well.

Brenda Hill · Mar 6, 2007

Thanks, Jim. I'll try it.

I used the 'search within this thread' feature and entered 'and then' and 'then' but still no results. So it looks like I'll have to browse the two-hundred and some-odd pages. Oh well, it never hurts to brush up on other things as well.

Now I have to gather my supplies for a week: my diet Coke, coffee, tea, cookies, salad...

James D. Macdonald · Mar 7, 2007

The "Search Within This Thread" feature apparently ignores "common words."

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...rn+writing+with+uncle"+"and+then"&btnG=Search

T. Nielsen Hayden · Mar 7, 2007

And then the editor said, "Not everyone agrees with Jim Macdonald on that point."

T. Nielsen Hayden · Mar 7, 2007

Thanks for the kind words about Spin. If it's any consolation, Robert Charles Wilson has improved as a writer since I first got to know him. Admittedly, that's going on thirty years now. He's been serious about his writing all along.

Oh, and I'm just now going through the copyedit of Axis, Bob's first-ever sequel.

Dawno · Mar 7, 2007

Brenda Hill said:
Jennifer L said:

I'm a newbie to posting here (though a long time lurker) and I can't believe I just finished reading this entire thread. Even the arguments about "and then."

Click to expand...

Jennifer, or anyone else, can you tell me where the discussion on 'and then' is located? I need a refresher.

When I first visited AW, I read page after page of Jim's thread about writing and have recommended them to several writers. Today, after reading several posts, I used the 'search' feature but must be doing something wrong as it didn't show results for 'and then' or even 'then.' But I know I'm not always using the features correctly as Jennifer's quote didn't show the right way.

In the index to the thread you can find the links to the first "and then" discussion at #85 on this post: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=117007&postcount=10

HConn · Mar 7, 2007

James D. Macdonald said:
Here's what I might suggest: Take a writer you admire and attempt to "channel" him or her. Pretend to be that person and have him or her write your book for you.

I've done something similar to this: When I get stuck on a plot point or feel like I'm not up to writing a particular scene, I imagine what some other, better writer would do in my situation and to that.

It's like those creativity tests, where people who thought they were very dull, and had very dull jobs, scored quite low. Then, when they were asked to answer the questions again as though they were painters or other creative people, they scored much higher.

How you view yourself affects what you can do.

Brenda Hill · Mar 7, 2007

Dawno, thank you, thank you! What a help. :hooray:

Loretta · Mar 12, 2007

quote: One trick to revision -- is to read the work aloud. Where you stumble, the reader will stumble. You'll notice different things, too, when you're reading aloud. You're using a different part of your brain than you are when reading silently.

I had to smile when I read this, I found that out the hard way. I've been writing for quite awhile, but only have one fully completed novel that I began editing for submissions. I stumbled on the fact that when I read the scenes out loud, I could immediately tell if they "sang" or not. I WISH I had known this sooner..but it was so refreshing to see it written in here as one of the things to do. It is an excellent way to proof your material....that and the coffee shop thing, which I borrowed out of Rowling's page, it kept me from suffering so much from cabin fever.

I'm finding this area very informative

Thanks for this thread!

smsarber · Mar 12, 2007

James D Macdonald said:
BTW, I didn't say "no music," I said "no radio." Radios have announcers, disk jockeys, the news, weather ... things that will break your concentration, take you out of that place where the creative things happen.

I like music myself for writing ... I prefer requiems, but maybe I'm just strange.

Whatever helps you get into the state you need to be in....

But there's a warning coming.

Don't couple destructive things with you writing. If you light up a cigarette when you start writing, if you quit smoking you'll find you can't write any more.

Same with drinking booze. Same with eating bon-bons. Coupling bad habits with writing will mean that you'll never be able to shed the bad habits.

One of the popular images of writers is of the guy with a bottle of whisky beside the typewriter.

It probably won't make you a better writer, or even make you a writer at all. It will rot your liver and empty your bank account.

I listen to "Iron Maiden". It's all good. This is a good thread, Old Sage. Glad I yanked myself out of the "NEPAT" long enough to look around. I am going to start two hours a day tomorrow; for now, bed is calling.

travelgal · Mar 13, 2007

Loretta said:
quote: One trick to revision -- is to read the work aloud. Where you stumble, the reader will stumble. You'll notice different things, too, when you're reading aloud. You're using a different part of your brain than you are when reading silently.

I had to smile when I read this, I found that out the hard way. I've been writing for quite awhile, but only have one fully completed novel that I began editing for submissions. I stumbled on the fact that when I read the scenes out loud, I could immediately tell if they "sang" or not. I WISH I had known this sooner..but it was so refreshing to see it written in here as one of the things to do. It is an excellent way to proof your material....that and the coffee shop thing, which I borrowed out of Rowling's page, it kept me from suffering so much from cabin fever.

I'm finding this area very informative Thanks for this thread!

A couple of critters had suggested this to me. Unfortunately, I read like a Dalek and stumble like a third-grade kid who hadn`t mastered reading. And nope, I`m not nervous in public; I`m a teacher. I worked in a library once, and read Roald (sp?) Dahl; yep, the funny guy to kids, and was told I made it boring. So, if I stumble on Dahl and make that boring, how do I review my MS that way?

If only I knew Anthony Hopkins. :e2bummed:

He makes a telephone book interesting!

Welcome to the forums, Loretta.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 13, 2007

The idea is to use a different part of your brain when seeing your work. Getting a fresh view. Revision = re-vision. Looking again.

If this trick doesn't work for you ... there are others.

WriterInChains · Mar 13, 2007

James D. Macdonald said:
The idea is to use a different part of your brain when seeing your work. Getting a fresh view. Revision = re-vision. Looking again.

If this trick doesn't work for you ... there are others.

Such as . . . ?

I just can't bring myself to do it since I spent nine months reading Shakespeare aloud. It reminds me of learning to play the violin when I was a kid. I'll keep trying periodically, but in the meantime other methods might work? I'll try them all.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom, it's deeply appreciated.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 13, 2007

How about ... copying the book out by hand? Retyping it from hard-copy. Turning the pages upside down and reading it.

All of these are mechanical ways of making the work different. Of using other parts of your brain.

The classic is putting the book in your desk drawer for three months.

If you've read your book on-screen up to now, read it in hardcopy. If you've read it in hardcopy, read it on-screen.

Oh -- here's a cheapie: Reprint your book in two-column justified ten-point Times New Roman, and read it in that form (presuming that you've been reading it in standard manuscript format). (On the other hand, if you've been setting your reading copy in TNR two-column -- set it in standard manuscript format and re-read it like that.)

I do like reading aloud, though. You don't have an audience other than yourself, so your public speaking skills don't matter.

Niteowl · Mar 13, 2007

If I may humbly chime in as an aspiring unpublished writer (I know, get in line, right?)

Some other tips I've read to help with editing (it may very well have been in the Uncle Jim's Digest thread)

- print it out in a different font than what you usually write in.
- edit it in a different place than where you write.
- read it backwards.
- try and cut 10% on each pass (this is from Stephen King's "On Writing")

aadams73 · Mar 13, 2007

Changing font and line spacing works well for me.

Lilybiz · Mar 13, 2007

Right now I'm reading a draft in hard copy that sat in a box for two months. (Usually I work on screen.) I knew, before I put it in that box, that I would have to cut like crazy.

Wow. What I didn't know was how easy it would be to cut, after letting it sit.

I think this is because of a couple of things: one is that I've had time away from it and don't remember it all, so I'm objective. The other is I'm a better writer than I was when I wrote the stuff I put in the box. For what it's worth, I've also been working on the back porch instead of at my desk.

So yeah, this stuff works!

Ken Schneider · Mar 13, 2007

travelgal said:
If only I knew Anthony Hopkins.

Aertep knows Sir Anthony Hopkins. LOL. Winks at Aertep.

Lilybiz · Mar 13, 2007

Ha! Yes, well, we don't use the "sir" here in La La Land.

WriterInChains · Mar 13, 2007

James D. Macdonald said:
Oh -- here's a cheapie: Reprint your book in two-column justified ten-point Times New Roman, and read it in that form (presuming that you've been reading it in standard manuscript format).

Thanks! This is one I haven't tried yet. Maybe I'll try it in April, on the ms that's been composting since the end of December -- if I still can't read it aloud.

smsarber · Mar 13, 2007

I usually write everything longhand the night before, then do my first edit the next day when I enter it into the computer. That way there are only 4,968,153 errors per page to correct the next time.

bsolah · Mar 14, 2007

I think the 'sitting thing' is by far the best advice when it comes to editing. It allows you to become detached from the work. The reading aloud thing works because when you read in your head, it's the same state that you wrote in and you've settled into a rhythm. Changing that pattern makes you use another part of the brain and you see it from a different angle.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 14, 2007

bsolah said:
I think the 'sitting thing' is by far the best advice when it comes to editing. It allows you to become detached from the work.

Something else I recommend is that you start writing something else while you're letting your work marinate in your desk drawer. That too will help cleanse your mind.

bsolah · Mar 14, 2007

Ok, on that note. I have a short story 'sitting' in my desk drawer and it has been for maybe 5 months. I don't feel ready to edit it as I haven't really embarked on any considerable new work since I recently gained my first full-time job and establishing a new routine has been difficult. I'd say I'm 'blocked' as well as I've been able to work on the tidying up of another short story.

Dr. Phil....uh, I mean, Uncle Jim, what should I do other than cut the crap and force myself to do some new writing?

Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

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