Publisher's Contest - Is it really a reading fee?

Charging an entry fee for a contest =/= reading fee. The fees shouldn't go to the person holding the contest, but instead are used to pay out prizes and pay the costs of the contest.

A guarantee of publication however should make you very wary. There's no way for them to guarantee that even one entry will be publication quality.

If the publisher is Random House, I'd say go for it. It it's anything smaller, I'd say run. When publication is on the line, even the best novel contest should not guarantee there will even be a winning novel.

Sometimes no novel comes in that you would want the publisher's name on. When this is the case, there should be no winning novel, in which case there should be no entry fee.

MeeMee2000:
If a publishing house runs a contest, charging a fee to enter, and promises to publish the winning novel, is there anything unethical or wrong about that?

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Depends on:

1. Who the publisher is. Like James said, if it's Random House, then publication means something. If it's a tuppeny start-up by someone with no obvious industry experience, you might as well just throw your manuscript at people in the street.

2. How much is the entry fee? If it's a nominal amount for admin, then that's acceptable. If they're charging upwards of £50, then I'd be nervous depending on who the publisher is.

3. What are the prizes? If the only prize is publication and it's a small, unheard of publisher, then the prize carries no real value (and I'd want to know what the royalty terms are). If the prize is publication and a decent advance, then at least there's some cash there to reimburse your time.

4. Who are the judges? Reputable competitions name their judges in advance and those judges have established publishing/writing credentials.

5. How long is the submissions period? If the competition goes on-line in February and entries close in March, then I'd be suspicious.

6. How long is the judging process? If the competition has only given itself a couple of weeks to go from submissions to winner, then I'd be suspicious.

So in conclusion, not all competitions are equal and not all competitions are worth entering but equally, not all competitions are scams.

MM

MeeMee2000 said:

I think we all agree that a contest with fees run by a literary agency is really a reading fee in disguise. What about a publisher? If a publishing house runs a contest, charging a fee to enter, and promises to publish the winning novel, is there anything unethical or wrong about that?

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No, there isn't.

Beyond the reasons given by Memento, ask yourself this: "What does 'publish' the winner mean in the real world?"

• How much time and effort will be spent on the cover?
• How much time and effort will be spent on editing the book?
• How many copies of the book will be printed?
• What are the distribution plans for the winner?
• How aggressive will the sales force be in selling the winner?
• How many reviewers will it be sent to?

Just those few questions should show you that a publisher who spends five minutes on the cover, accepts the manuscript as is for publishing, prints 500 books, makes no distribution plans, doesn't mention it to the sales force, and never sends it out to the reviewers has met the requirement of 'publishing' the book. Compare this to a publisher who spends considerable time on the cover, including several mock-ups, editing includes a editor who has a positive reputation, a line editor, and a couple of readers, prints 10,000 copies, which it will distribute through Baker & Taylor, with a sales force that are whipped into a frenzy to sell the book, with review copies going to a hundred or more reviewers.

Both are 'published.' One pretty much guarantees your novel disappearing from sight, while the other gives your novel a chance to make it. 'Published' is a word with many meanings. A show like AMERICAN IDOL defines all these details. Does your publisher?

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

I personally consider it a reading fee in disguise especially if 1) the only prize is publication and 2) general submissions are closed.

RobJ said:

No, there isn't.

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There's very often a LOT wrong with this.

Why not tell us who the publisher is? Something like this should probably be added to their thread in the Background Checks sub-forum. If they're already being discussed there, then others' experiences with them should give you an idea of how legit they are as a publisher.

Jamesaritchie said:

There's very often a LOT wrong with this.

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I imagine you must have a lot of examples that you can provide us with, then, where publishers did this and there was a lot wrong.

RobJ said:

I imagine you must have a lot of examples that you can provide us with, then, where publishers did this and there was a lot wrong.

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Yes, and you can see many of them with a ten second Google search. You don't sincerely believe that every place calling itself a publisher is above board and honest, do you?

You don't sincerely believe that the money you pay is always because publishers themselves need the money, or they can't hold a contest, do you?

Good, worthy publishers hold contests regularly, but the good ones almost never charge a reading fee, or an entry fee.

Really, why would you assume that giving money to anyone, publisher or not, is automatically a good idea?

And the truth is, whether a contest is "honest" has nothing to do with it. There are darned few contests out there worth entering, if a fee is involved. Even if you win, you gain nothing worthwhile.

Really, do some research.

Jamesaritchie said:

Yes, and you can see many of them with a ten second Google search. You don't sincerely believe that every place calling itself a publisher is above board and honest, do you?

You don't sincerely believe that the money you pay is always because publishers themselves need the money, or they can't hold a contest, do you?

Good, worthy publishers hold contests regularly, but the good ones almost never charge a reading fee, or an entry fee.

Really, why would you assume that giving money to anyone, publisher or not, is automatically a good idea?

And the truth is, whether a contest is "honest" has nothing to do with it. There are darned few contests out there worth entering, if a fee is involved. Even if you win, you gain nothing worthwhile.

Really, do some research.

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The OP has asked about publishers running a contest, charging a fee, and promising to publish a novel at the end of it. You've said that very often there is a lot wrong with this. Let's not beat about the bush with generalisations. If you have the evidence why don't you just post it, for the benefit of the OP and everyone else?

MeeMee2000 said:

I think we all agree that a contest with fees run by a literary agency is really a reading fee in disguise. What about a publisher? If a publishing house runs a contest, charging a fee to enter, and promises to publish the winning novel, is there anything unethical or wrong about that? Just wondering. Thanks!

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I think there is. Think of all the entries the publisher gets usually with a larger reading fee for novels, and only one person gets publication. Or, perhaps they get no novels worth publishing. Where does all the money for those reading fees go? Not to charity, but right back into the company.

I am not against reading fees when used properly, or if the publisher is obviously reputable. I entered a fairly local short story contest a few years back for a $5 entry fee. It was a small publication, the owner made sure to let everyone know that the prize money depended on the amount of entrants. When I won first place, I got a good prize because several people had entered. There were also a second and third place winners. It was really fun.

Just be sure to research the publisher well at preditors and editors before entering any contest, especially those that charge a fee.

RobJ said:

The OP has asked about publishers running a contest, charging a fee, and promising to publish a novel at the end of it. You've said that very often there is a lot wrong with this. Let's not beat about the bush with generalisations. If you have the evidence why don't you just post it, for the benefit of the OP and everyone else?

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There are several threads in R,B&BC about this and the problems with it, including: Publishers who normally allow unagented submissions, but stop accepting them for anyone who doesn't pay to enter the contest, contracts that lock a writer into a perpetual rights grab, even if the book isn't selected as a finalist in the contest, lack of transparency where the funds collected are concerned, promises of publication that amounts to an unedited, vanity book with no distribution, etc.

The only name I can think of off the top of my head is The Red Hen Press, but I know there were at least 2 others.

RobJ:
I imagine you must have a lot of examples that you can provide us with, then, where publishers did this and there was a lot wrong.

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From a search on the Bewares Forum here (in no order of importance):

- Tell-Tale Publishing - http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206857

- Red Hen Press - http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206825

- Interactive Press - http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203238

- First One Publishing - http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201621

etc etc etc.

MM

Thanks MM.