About.com?

Best of luck, Crystal!

I guess I was more wondering if you could apply as a Guide if you were accepted as a CW. Sorry I wasn't more clear. It might be difficult to juggle both, I agree. Of course, at this point I'd be happy with one or the other, but I really would like a Guide position.

I'm starting to develop a complex here. I have lots of clients and a steady gig. I really want to get on with About and have applied countless times. I never make it into prep. I'm starting to wonder if I should be working at McDonald's.

I wish you much success Crystal. I'll have to go and see what's new today. There is one that has been on the list forever. I'd like to apply but considering how long it has been there, I can't believe that it isn't in prep already. Maybe I'll give it a shot anyhow. What have I got to lose (besides time)?

I don't believe they allow anyone to be both a Guide and a CW, but there should be nothing stopping a CW from applying for a Guide position.

Is it worth applying for what I imagine is a pretty popular topic which has been open since Aug. (it says so in the forum)? I have years of Life experience with the topic & a few national credits that are relevant, but not much other experience.

There's been no updates to the site since Aug. except for one blog post in Nov. Don't know if that was by the old guide or an about-to-be-announced guide??

Also, somewhere it said most guides spend 10-15 hours at it. Elsewhere it said 25-30 hours (that would be too much for me at this time). Which is it? Or does it depend on the topic? Should I go for it or not even bother trying at this point? Thanks!

You can easily achieve the minimums with 10 hours a week, but ultimately, you'll get what you put into it. The successful guides put more hours into it.

tigerlily said:

Is it worth applying for what I imagine is a pretty popular topic which has been open since Aug. (it says so in the forum)?

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That's a good question. There is a topic I'm interested in that has been there forever. I was going to apply when I first saw it but decided against it because I don't seem to be successful applying for About. Now, months later, it is still there. I'm so tempted to apply but I just have a feeling that as soon as I do I'll find out it is in prep.

I'm wondering why it seems like they aren't hiring anyone? Most of those topics have been there for months and months. Are they just not getting good applicants? It's just surprising because there were always posts here with people proclaiming they made it into prep. Now this thread is very quiet.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't apply for a site that you are interested in unless you are simply not qualified. It doesn't take that long to apply.

As for whether or not they've slowed down, can't say for sure, but I do know they recently hired almost a dozen contributing writers to help out on sites. That might have slowed down guide prep, or it might simply be that many topics aren't getting qualified applicants.

Well in my case it just seems like every time I apply I find out it's already in prep. It's very irritating so that's why I hesitate to apply for one that has been posted for months. It's hard for me to believe that they aren't getting qualified apps for that particular topic (though very probable for others).

" Extensive PR and Marketing Support Guides are a big part of About.com's brand, so we do a lot of promotion of the Guides as experts, including press releases for new GuideSites, appearances for Guides at trade shows... "

This also makes me hesitate. As a very private and shy person, I actually prefer to write under a pseudonym (with no photo online. I'm more into the 'fortune' than any 'fame.')

I know there's already a bunch of existing, and some quite popular blogs on the topic. Those people are more qualified than me. I think just getting into prep would be very interesting & educational (& stressful from the sounds of it) for me. I guess I'm just not sure if this is a good fit for me. (Maybe I should read through More of this thread!? This is all pretty new to me.)

I wonder if maybe I'd be better off trying for Demand Studios (though it's not as professional?) or something. So it'd be easier for me to pick & choose my topics & time spent per week (some weeks are crazier than others)?

herdon, True, it can't hurt to try. It's up to them to pick the best.

tigerlily, yes, if you get hired with About.com, you'll be required to use your real name (the only Guide I've heard of who doesn't is the Guide to Alcoholism -- he's also not required to have a picture up, which everyone else does). Unfortunately, Demand Studios is now also requiring bio photos, although you can use sunglasses, hats and all sorts of other ridiculous tricks to partially obscure your face, if you want (you can write under a pseudonym, and I don't see how a pen name and real face go hand in hand, but whatever). But do read through the rest of this thread -- you might be surprised to learn that you want to give About.com a try.

Most of the better content sites are going with the name/photo. It's a move away from wikis where the information you get is anonymous -- people are starting to realize that anonymous information isn't always trustworthy.

About.com drives me bonkers. I've applied several times and can never seem to catch the topic before it goes into Prep. Ugh! I wish they had a news feed or something that would alert you to new listings. How irritating. I'm super qualified, too.

Hmph. Well, I tried again. That's all you can do, right?

Yup, you're right. My first couple of applications drove me crazy because I was so excited to find out if I would make it to prep. Now I just assume I won't but still keep applying if I find something I'm qualified for. At this point, if they decided to invite me to prep, I'd probably pass out from shock.

I have applied to be a guide for About.com for the fifth time (haven't been accepted to prep yet ever). I seem to always be late to the party as they usually hire a guide at around 10 weeks (my application being 10 weeks old).

This time its been longer and I just checked the status says my application is still on file, but they are working with a group of applicants. Its a regional topic so, i hoped it would be a little easier to get into.

Well. my topic is gone from the list of available topics, but still no guide. I haven't gotten the automated message from About.com yet either tell me that someone has been hired. Maybe they quit accepting applications and are just trying to get through the ones they have - one can hope.

nickelnm said:

Well. my topic is gone from the list of available topics, but still no guide. I haven't gotten the automated message from About.com yet either tell me that someone has been hired. Maybe they quit accepting applications and are just trying to get through the ones they have - one can hope.

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Usually that does mean that someone has been chosen. They give you approximately 2 weeks on average to get the site up and going. I think they send out the automated notice once the new site goes live.

That's not set in stone and there have been times when they had to go back and get another Prep group. Either way, I wish you the best of luck!

Actual nuts and bolts of compensation...

Hello all! Have read the entire thread with great interest, but have a number of unanswered questions about compensation and site management tools I'm hoping actual Guides can help with.

I have a great deal of experience in a topic that is currently available, writing specifically for the web, SEO, and driving quality traffic to a website, so growing both the content and page views won't be a problem at all.

The missing piece for me is what "incentives for pageview growth" means in real world terms. If I double the total monthly page views for a well trafficked site over a 2 year period, what kind of bonuses can I realistically expect over the $675 per month stipend?

I'm also a bit concerned by the statement "About.com pays Guides by measuring pageview growth month-over-month for Guides in their first year".

I have extensive contacts in radio and TV, and getting spots talking about my topic will not be difficult at all. This could lead to a HUGE spike in traffic on the occasions that I choose to mention my About.com site, but then the following month the number could be down if I don't have another appearance scheduled.

Does this mean that my bonus would disappear, just because my monthly views went down, even if the following month total is still higher than when I took over the site? I have absolutely no problem with performance based bonuses, but I'm not about to use my media leverage if it will hurt my month-over-month gain requirements and continued bonus payments.

Given the significant time commitment the vetting process involves I do not want to invest a month of hard work in something that I may not even deem personally worthwhile once I find out the actual compensation details.

I know that "some" Guides make over 100k per year, and "many" over 6k per month. I'm well aware that every individual site and Guide is a unique situation and no one can predict what I personally can or will accomplish. What I do want to know is how bonuses are actually calculated rather than the scant marketing hyperbole offered on the Be A Guide pages. I've never come across a single legitimate freelance position in 30 years of professional writing that is so intentionally vague about compensation.

I know that if don't get the position I can sell what I've written elsewhere, but even $1000 isn't in the ballpark of what I currently earn for the amount of time I'd have to invest in prep.

I am more than willing to work long and hard for years to build my site up (I've done it many times before in other corners of the web) but I'm not about to do a month of full time work for $250 unless I know what the real compensation structure and can realistically weigh the long term earning potential of the position.

On the topic of site optimization, does About.com offer traffic log information to their guides? Specifically, do you have the opportunity to analyze exactly where your traffic is coming from, what search terms are being used, and how the visitors are navigating through the site? For example, will I have access to the log info which will tell me that visitors finding my site with search phrase "xyz" are leaving right away, while those who came via phrase "abc" are sticking around to read 3-4 pages on average?

I will be immensely appreciative for any insights that will help clarify some of these areas for me.

Thanks so very much!

The bonus traffic incentive is based on year over year growth, which means it compares how much your site grew from the same month last year. For guides in their first year, there isn't a month in the previous year to compare it to, so it is based on month over month growth. Once you get past the first 12 months, it will begin comparisons to the year previous, which usually mean larger bonus incentives.

About.com has metrics reporting based on articles, keyword phrases, etc. It's not going to track user paths through the guide site, but you'll get an idea of how people are getting to the site and what articles are popular.

Thanks for the quick reply herdon!

herdon said:

The bonus traffic incentive is based on year over year growth, which means it compares how much your site grew from the same month last year. For guides in their first year, there isn't a month in the previous year to compare it to, so it is based on month over month growth. Once you get past the first 12 months, it will begin comparisons to the year previous, which usually mean larger bonus incentives.

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I get that, but this just reiterates what I already know from the Be A Guide page. What I'm looking for is actual numbers.

Is the bonus based on % of growth over the prior month/year, is it based on x number of additional page views, and in either case, what does x growth translate into in actual compensation.

If guides are not allowed to post such details publicly, I welcome any insights via PM.

Also, I'm still wanting to know what the impact of offline publicity would be if it results in a huge spike in traffic one month but not the next.

For example, if total page views are:

- 100k in month one
- 115k in month two
- 225k month three following a TV appearance
- 150k in month four

Am I not going to receive any bonus compensation for month 4 because it's down from the prior month even though total traffic is up significantly from two months prior?

About.com has metrics reporting based on articles, keyword phrases, etc. It's not going to track user paths through the guide site, but you'll get an idea of how people are getting to the site and what articles are popular.

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That's deeply disappointing. From a serious SEO perspective knowing how visitors are navigating through a site is the second most important thing you can track after knowing how they arrived at the site in the first place.

If you don't know which links they're clicking on each page, there's no way to truly optimize your content for maximum page views. You're only making guesses as to what works rather than testing and tracking actual results.

They have all sorts of different stats available. It's really not THAT disappointing So much more info than, say. Examiner. I've managed to get lots of articles to #1 in Google now, so it's good enough. I can see where links are coming in, what people are searching, what labels are getting hits and more.

As for the compensation - it's a whole formula that they use.

I think for month 4 you would just get the $675 since it went down so much, but the year after you would be doing pretty well probably and get a nice fat bonus.

It takes time to get these things going, site-wise and pay-wise. I absolutely love working there. I would say just worry about trying to get the job first, and know that if you put in as much work as it sounds like you could, you'd probably be to a nice paygrade in not too long.

princessvessna said:

I've managed to get lots of articles to #1 in Google now, so it's good enough.

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I'm glad that you're content and loving what you do! That's all that matters ultimately. That said, the fact that you are able to get #1 articles has nothing to do with how limited any serious optimization endeavor is without such vital statistics. Using nothing but the metrics on how a person navigates through a site it's entirely possible to triple page views by rigorously testing different links, their placement on the page and countless other variables. Given that payment at About.com is based on page views, not being able to take these things into account is leaving a ridiculous amount of money on the table.

Sure, you can just write more articles, but personally I prefer working harder and smarter at the same time.

As for the compensation - it's a whole formula that they use.

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Exactly, and that is the formula I am wanting to thoroughly understand. Why on earth would I devote a month of full time effort for just the chance to have a job, when I don't even know what the actual compensation entails!

For a passionate hobbyist, I get how such ambiguity may not be a big deal. But that's not me. I make a full time living and support my family with my work, and I'm not going to bother going out for something without understanding fully how my efforts are going to be evaluated and compensated.

I think for month 4 you would just get the $675 since it went down so much, but the year after you would be doing pretty well probably and get a nice fat bonus.

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You think? I feel like I've gone down the rabbit hole here... there are dozens of Guides posting in this thread. Am I to understand that most, if not all, don't even fully understand exactly how their compensation is worked out?

It takes time to get these things going, site-wise and pay-wise. I absolutely love working there. I would say just worry about trying to get the job first, and know that if you put in as much work as it sounds like you could, you'd probably be to a nice paygrade in not too long.

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I am utterly comfortable with a pay for performance situation, in fact, it's an environment I thrive in. I also completely understand that the real rewards come from a long term investment of time and energy. Every successful business I've owned has taken the same resolve and commitment to yield fruit, but I'm not going to "worry" at all, or even try to get a position where no one seems to fully understand, or is able to clearly articulate, exactly how compensation and bonuses are calculated!

I only do online writing for a living, so About is a huge chunk of my pay (and I am my sole support, so I don't get to fall back on someone else's salary when considering if my site is worth it). For now I also do a lot of work at Demand so I can get the student and car loans paid off quicker.

I don't know that I can say the exact formula or not (it also has variables depending on your own personal site, etc., so I really can't say what your potential site could make for the bonuses even if I wanted to)

I will say that yes, I do know that you would be lower that 4th month. I was erring on the side of caution, but I will say that much. (I know I'm still vague, but I really don't know how much I should say since I am just a Guide, not HR). They have a calculator available that I play around with all the time so I can see how many PV I need to get for my own personal monetary goals. I do understand how my wages are calculated.

I don't get #1 things just by writing lots of articles. I do a lot of research for it all and tweaking of course! I also happen to do a lot of social media work on places like Twitter, which works really well for things like gardening. But perhaps it would be good to see if the developers could add that extra tracking

Each site also has its own quirks. Someone like jobsearch has generally year-round appeal since people are always looking for jobs. I am somewhat more seasonal and can't wait until things get REALLY hopping in spring. There's other factors that can come into play.

What site are you interested in? You can PM me with it if you don't want to say it out loud.

Is it really a month for Prep now? I think that would make it a little easier to get Prep done around other jobs, and they are looking more for the right voice and style rather than quantity.

I did an older version where it was something like 17 days straight while I was employed full time. I had a list of 6 specific articles I had to write, plus some other things and something like 3 check-ins along the way. A lot of people went hog-wild with the article writing in that version of Prep, from what I've read here.

I personally was just over the minimum (didn't help that I was sick the weekend before my final review on Monday) but still got the gig. Doesn't mean I'm saying only try to do the min, of course, just relating my own experience Hectic but fun. I had the magic experience of having my site go live only a month after I even applied (quite unusual).

I still say just apply and see if you get into Prep (hopefully)

First, thank you for the lengthy reply!

I realize that my tone could have been misconstrued as adversarial, when in fact it's really just frustration at the shocking lack of detail available on the pay scale.

I'm just amazed that an organization which requires significant professional credentials for candidates (in at least some categories) would expect applicants of this caliber to invest any time up front without presenting a clear understanding of how they will be rewarded for their efforts over the long term if they are offered the position.

I also suspect this is why the category I am looking at has gone without a guide for a long time.

princessvessna said:

I don't know that I can say the exact formula or not (it also has variables depending on your own personal site, etc., so I really can't say what your potential site could make for the bonuses even if I wanted to)

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I completely understand that there are many variables, but there also must be a basic formula by which compensation is calculated even if different benchmarks and multipliers are category dependent. A basic understanding of this in practical real world numbers (not dollar figures) is all I am seeking.

I will say that yes, I do know that you would be lower that 4th month. I was erring on the side of caution, but I will say that much.

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It makes perfect sense that the bonus should be lower when page views have declined. What I need to understand is whether all bonus compensation will be lost simply because of a decline or if that bonus would simply go down proportionately.

They have a calculator available that I play around with all the time so I can see how many PV I need to get for my own personal monetary goals. I do understand how my wages are calculated.

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Then please illuminate me! I'm not looking for a public posting of your actual dollar figures. I just want a general understanding of what that calculator illustrates!

Over your current PV, how much of an increase would be needed to increase your monthly compensation by 20%, 50%, 100%?

If you can double your PV over the course of a year, how much of an increase in compensation would that translate into (percentage wise not dollars) over your current pay?

I don't get #1 things just by writing lots of articles. I do a lot of research for it all and tweaking of course!

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My apologies if my post seemed to imply that you're getting top spots in the SERPS by just writing alone. I was only pointing out that search engine keyword analysis is only a small piece of on site optimization. When it comes to increasing page views, being able to track where users click off a page is almost as invaluable as knowing how they got there.

I still say just apply and see if you get into Prep (hopefully)

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Alas, that's just not going to happen until I get a clearer picture of exactly how compensation works.

Sure, applying takes practically no time at all, but if the topic goes into prep a few days later this is the bare minimum I'd need to know before I invest a single minute more.

It's great to hear that the revised prep is less burdensome than it was years back, but I'm not in the habit of investing (time or money) in any professional endeavor without being able to rationally asses its relative merits.

That's just due diligence 101.

The way About pays takes a little while to understand. I think we're also bound by some confidentiality agreement, and I'm sure no one wants to give out their personal figures.

Guide compensation is not just based on page views. It is based on site revenue (ads) AND page views. Because it would be hard for a new site to get alot of ad revenue in the beginning, you're protected by the stipend until your site can generate some money. New guides are still protected by the stipend, right?

Every site gets a rate after the first year (based on the ad sales) and the formula is based on that. I think that's the reason you can actually make the same if your page views drop one year- your site 'rate' could have increased b/c you've been around longer. Make sense?

I can say that About has an amazing system for SEO. My 'real' job is as an editor in custom pubs, and I've never seen such immediate search engine results. I've worked at other mainstream mags when we launched our websites, and it was never as fast as About. It's a pretty amazing system. I don't work many hours on my site and I wish I could do more this year, but my page views astonish me all the time.

I also know some of the numbers of guides that started with me a few years ago (and can devote 20+ hrs/week on their site) and their page views are staggering. As a result, their compensation works out to a significant amount per hour. It's more than we pay our freelance writers (and we pay pretty well).

WriteOn,

It is difficult for Guides to reveal how the compensation plan works because it is also based on revenue, as runningbiking stated. That makes the resulting compensation different for each site.

I would suggest that if you are not willing to settle for the stipend for at least the first few months, then it is not worth your time. Some sites can see a quick increase in their pageviews and subsequently their compensation. Other new Guides may have not-so-popular topics that take longer to get off the ground, but do well in the long run.

Over your current PV, how much of an increase would be needed to increase your monthly compensation by 20%, 50%, 100%?

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I can calculate my own personal increase, but that doesn't mean the same calculation would apply to another Guide. My own calculation would even be different in a few months.

If you can double your PV over the course of a year, how much of an increase in compensation would that translate into (percentage wise not dollars) over your current pay?

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Again, the system is dynamic and there is the stipend to fall back on for new Guides. This depends on the individual Guide and their PV's. Of course if Sally is getting 2000 PV's and doubles it to 4000PV's, it's a whole different story than if Billy has 200,000 PV's and doubles it.

I know it sounds vague, but we are using discretion here. What I can tell you is that the system works very well for you if you post content frequently. I'm in my second year and making more money at home than I ever did in the office.

My personal scenario might not apply to everyone, but it is very possible. To a lot of people, it is certainly at least worth $675 a month to post three blog posts and a couple articles a week at the bare minimum. It also gets your name and face out there as an authority on your subject, which is priceless, IMO.