One of the experiments in Indian Residential Schools comes to light. . .

Xelebes

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A vitamin and mineral study on malnourished aboriginals, first with the Norway House Cree in Manitoba and then spreading. The results were inconclusive, but that was due to the fact that the scientists knew the problem beforehand and knew the problem afterhand.

Mosby — whose work at the University of Guelph focuses on the history of food in Canada — was researching the development of health policy when he ran across something strange.

"I started to find vague references to studies conducted on 'Indians' that piqued my interest and seemed potentially problematic, to say the least," he told The Canadian Press. "I went on a search to find out what was going on."

Government documents eventually revealed a long-standing, government-run experiment that came to span the entire country and involved at least 1,300 aboriginals, most of them children.

It began with a 1942 visit by government researchers to a number of remote reserve communities in northern Manitoba, including places such as The Pas and Norway House.

They found people who were hungry, beggared by a combination of the collapsing fur trade and declining government support. They also found a demoralized population marked by, in the words of the researchers, "shiftlessness, indolence, improvidence and inertia."

The experiments, repugnant today, would probably have been considered ethically dubious even at the time, said Mosby.

Not much was learned from those hungry little bodies. A few papers were published — "they were not very helpful," Mosby said — and he couldn't find evidence that the Norway House research program was completed.

"They knew from the beginning that the real problem and the cause of malnutrition was underfunding. That was established before the studies even started and when the studies were completed that was still the problem."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...boriginal-nutritional-experiments-canada.html
 

Kylabelle

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Reveen

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Oh yeah, we we're totally better towards the First Nations then the Americans.

Christ.
 

GeorgeK

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Actually it leads into a lot of popular myths.

Myth...girls aren't good at math or science despite that they get better grades until age ten...


Prenatal vitamins with iron...


Imagine if boys were all sucked by vampires as of about age 10...

Hemoglobin equals oxygen carrying capacity equals mental acuity.

This whole gender myth without science pisses me of
 

Xelebes

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Um. . . can you expand on that, George? I'm finding your post hard to follow.
 

CAWriter

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I thought this post might be about this story, Perhaps it's a small bit better to be underfunded and malnourished than fed a gov't meal and poisoned.
 

Kylabelle

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I thought this post might be about this story, Perhaps it's a small bit better to be underfunded and malnourished than fed a gov't meal and poisoned.

No, I don't think it is. These children were purposely malnourished in the interests of _________. Which is a form of torture and in many cases no doubt torture to death.

What happened in India still has the appearance of having been a stupid and tragic accident and not intentional evil perpetrated upon those children.

Xelebes, thank you for bringing these stories repeatedly to view here. It's hard history to look at but it needs to be unburied.

"Not much was learned from those hungry little bodies." That statement carries a megaton of pain. There is so little that can be said about this that does not fall horribly short of doing full justice to the outrage.
 

GeorgeK

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Um. . . can you expand on that, George? I'm finding your post hard to follow.
Yeah, day 3 of no sleep will make me hard to follow. I finally managed a nap this morning.

What I was alluding to was the effect of nutrition on education. Vitamins and minerals can help in the right circumstances. There was and still exists among some people the myth that women aren't good at math or science because of the drop in their grades as compared to boys in the same classes. The drop in grades was eventually shown to be not because they were female, but because of the relative anemia brought on by menstruation. If you are used to a certain hemoglobin level and it drops you won't think as clearly as you used to. You can help your daughters in school by having them take prenatal vitamins after menarch.

The flaw in the Canadian thing was that vitamins and minerals only help if nutrition is otherwise satisfied. A child with protein depletion won't get much help from vitamins.
 

jennontheisland

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Well, when you've rounded up an entire population that you have decided is somewhat less than human into reserves and schools, and are basically holding them captive, what else are you going to do but perform scientific experiments on them?

I am disgusted but absolutely not surprised at all.
 

Xelebes

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Well, when you've rounded up an entire population that you have decided is somewhat less than human into reserves and schools, and are basically holding them captive, what else are you going to do but perform scientific experiments on them?

I am disgusted but absolutely not surprised at all.

The surprise only lies in what the experiments were and what was gleaned from them, not whether experiments happened.
 

benbradley

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Yeah, day 3 of no sleep will make me hard to follow. I finally managed a nap this morning.

What I was alluding to was the effect of nutrition on education. Vitamins and minerals can help in the right circumstances. There was and still exists among some people the myth that women aren't good at math or science because of the drop in their grades as compared to boys in the same classes. The drop in grades was eventually shown to be not because they were female, but because of the relative anemia brought on by menstruation. If you are used to a certain hemoglobin level and it drops you won't think as clearly as you used to. You can help your daughters in school by having them take prenatal vitamins after menarch.
For what it's worth, you may have missed connecting a dot or two in your earlier post, but that's exactly what I presumed you were saying.
 

Opty

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The drop in grades was eventually shown to be not because they were female, but because of the relative anemia brought on by menstruation. If you are used to a certain hemoglobin level and it drops you won't think as clearly as you used to. You can help your daughters in school by having them take prenatal vitamins after menarch.

Link to a source? I've done a few PubMed searches for studies to support that claim and haven't found any. However, I might be using incorrect/faulty search parameters. I'd be interested in reading such a study.
 

Raventongue

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You can help your daughters in school by having them take prenatal vitamins after menarch.


Er... Not quite.

You can help by having them take iron supplements, preferably separate from any (dietary or supplemental) calcium. But unless ordered by a qualified medical doctor, prenatal vitamins remain for pregnant women only.

The preteens are also the years where the vast majority of girls go on their first diet (I an provide cites for that if asked; can't be arse right now). If body image weren't such a problem, maybe preteen girls' bodies would be much better prepared for menstruation.

I would propose that the drop in girls' math and science grades may have something to do with the continued lack of female role models in those fields, and point out the possibility of its survival into the 2010s being the result of a self-fulfilling prophecy as well. Biology may play a role, but you can bet your butt sociology does too.
 

Xelebes

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I hope they are being well-attended, Xelebes. I've not seen any reports in the news headlines anywhere....

I think I saw some pics at a rally at Amiskwaskehegan Park downtown. It was small, maybe 50 people. A bit unfortunate, but there are very few people here who can recall it especially when you consider that it happened during WWII and Edmonton area schools were apparently not involved.

However, more experiments will likely come to light. I'm thinking experiments with tuberculosis and the sort will be among those that will come up next.
 

Jean Marie

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Er... Not quite.

You can help by having them take iron supplements, preferably separate from any (dietary or supplemental) calcium. But unless ordered by a qualified medical doctor, prenatal vitamins remain for pregnant women only.

The preteens are also the years where the vast majority of girls go on their first diet (I an provide cites for that if asked; can't be arse right now). If body image weren't such a problem, maybe preteen girls' bodies would be much better prepared for menstruation.

I would propose that the drop in girls' math and science grades may have something to do with the continued lack of female role models in those fields, and point out the possibility of its survival into the 2010s being the result of a self-fulfilling prophecy as well. Biology may play a role, but you can bet your butt sociology does too.
Bolding is mine.

Preteens is a totally crappy age that you honestly couldn't pay me to go back to. Even w/ the knowledge I've attained. It just sucks. Everything about it is awkward, and spot on for saying that body image is for the most part, central.

My math grades weren't all that great, and it most likely has to do w/ role models, as you pointed out. I'm inclined to point to teachers.

Prenatal vitamins for pre-teens? Seriously? I'll go w/ pregnant women on that as did Raventongue. Iron supplements, as she suggested, but any additional check w/ a doc, which we are not. Except for Colorado Guy, of course :D Even he will tell you to check w/ your doc.