ISBN for e-book

I aksed this question recently. The answer I got: I don't need one for Kindle. Smashwords will give you one. So, I got one from Smashwords.

Kindle publishing will assign you a free ASIN (Amazon Standard Identification Number). Smashwords will assign you a Smashwords ISBN which is not good outside of Smashwords. I would stick with Kindle at first (because it has the lion's share of the business), and then branch out from there if you are successful.

If you're Canadian, ISBN numbers are free. Unless it has been changed since last I checked, of course.

I wound up buying ten ISBNs from Bowker. But I recently went on Author's Den and they asked for a 9 digit ISBN as well as a 13 digit ISBN. What's a 9 digit ISBN?

You can get an ISBN at a later date. However, I'm not convinced that Kindle ' has the lion's share' of traffic. I sell more on Smashwords, via outside locations such as B&N, Diesel, Kobo, and Sony, when I add them all up, than Kindle.

Remember that an ISBN uniquely identifies the work, and its format.

Thus you cannot use the same ISBN for the epub and the mobi versions of the same book.

Before I published my ebook on Amazon and B&N, I bought some repurchased ISBNs for $5 a pop. They aren't needed on either site, but when I wanted to change a cover image on LibraryThing's member giveaway, I was asked for an ISBN (why, I don't know). So I furnished one of the numbers and all was cool. If someone checks the ISBN, it will come up "independent publisher." Unless, of course, I register it with Books in Print, which I would never do. I can't imagine paying $125 (or $55) for an ISBN for an ebook.

James D. Macdonald said:

Remember that an ISBN uniquely identifies the work, and its format.

Thus you cannot use the same ISBN for the epub and the mobi versions of the same book.

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What happens if you do? 'Cause, from personal experience (oops), you can use the same ISBN for different digital versions. But apparently you shouldn't, because if you do...?

I'm not getting ISBNs for my ebooks because many are on topics that change frequently and I want the freedom to update them as often as needed. I only plan to sell via Kindle and Nook and do the uploads myself, so at this point I don't see a benefit to an ISBN.

Captcha said:

What happens if you do?

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The ISBN police raid your house at 2AM.

More seriously, no-one is likely to complain if you do, but if anyone actually uses the ISBN to try to find your book they may get the wrong version. You should use a different ISBN for every file type, but most people don't.

As for Canada, the government don't charge for ISBNs, but you do have to send them a copy of every book you release; that's easy with e-books since you just upload them to the government web-site, but for a paper book you have to mail a copy to them.

Which reminds me, I have to reserve an ISBN for my new e-book.

Captcha said:

What happens if you do? 'Cause, from personal experience (oops), you can use the same ISBN for different digital versions. But apparently you shouldn't, because if you do...?

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If you do, someone who wants one format may get the other.

The ISBN is the book.

If you're using the same ISBN for two editions, either the vendor isn't using ISBN to start with, or your sales are so negligible that the issue hasn't come up.

Last I heard the need for a unique ISBN for each digital format had not been legally nailed down--it was a matter of dispute. Anyone have a link showing that that has changed? Because Smashwords and some major epublishers seems to use just the one across all digital formats for a title.

Smashwords just uses one ISBN -- for the epub version which goes to other vendors. The formats other than epub don't have ISBNs. ISBN isn't "legally" anything. It doesn't have the force of law behind it and there's no need to assign an ISBN to publish a book.

ISBN has something more important than law: It has the force of commerce. If you intend to sell books you'll want to have one, and you'll want a unique one for each edition and each format.


What Smashwords says:

Bowker and the International ISBN agency recommend that each ebook format should have its own unique ISBN, so if you previously attached an ISBN to your PDF or Kindle version, you should assign a new one to your EPUB version here. If our retail partners or Bowker (the U.S. ISBN registrar) report back to Smashwords that you have supplied us an already-issued ISBN associated with a different book, it may delay or prevent distribution.

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That quote's about a recommendation, not a requirement. And the second part of the quote seems to be focused on people randomly taking other books' ISBNs and reusing them, not on using the same ISBN for different e-versions.

So I checked several big e-publishers, and it looks like they're using the same ISBN for different versions - I cut and pasted the ISBN into Amazon and got the book, then into the Kobo store and got the book, even through those stores carry different formats.

Then I checked The Help as an example of a major print-published book, and the same ISBN called the book up in both Amazon and Kobo. Same with the latest James Patterson book.

So this certainly doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule. Do you have examples of publishers who ARE giving a separate ISBN for each version of an e-book?

I researched ISBN for our small company that has 6 printed books in continuous print for > 20 years and now we are doing the eBooks ourselves. In USA Bowker (http://www.bowker.com/index.php/bowker-brands/bowker-isbn) is the only source of ISBNs, however they authorize others to be re-sellers as well. The website and direct calls to them was much of my information as I found, like this thread, conflicting "facts" and info/opinions online. Of course, Bowker is motivated to sell more product (ISBN) as well as their newer product DOI (Digital Object Identifiers).

Like some have said here, the official guideline from Bowker: same content/title but different output mobi, ePub, PDF would each have a different ISBN. I can't remember the online eBook outlet that indicated in their FAQ that they wanted the above followed, but then in looking at what they actually allowed to be for sale from both their best selling to low sellers, they did not enforce this rule.

Our own company still has close to 900 ISBNs from block of 1,000 purchased decades ago so we can afford to use them up, but decided to use one ISBN per eBook title. We figured that anyone who is about to download an eBook would see on the same online retailer page all version types available from that outlet and would choose appropriately. If someone were citing our non-fiction book in a footnote or bibliography and including the ISBN then someone else using a different eBook version would not be confused if they saw their own eBook having a different ISBN. This is probably a non-issue for works of fiction, but not necessarily so.

Earlier poster had asked about difference in 9 digit and 13 digit ISBN numbers - as far as I know at least in USA there are only 10 digit ISBNs that were given the identical 978 prefix starting in 2007 to make them 13-digits in length.
The following is from Bowker.com FAQ:
All ISBN-10s officially changed to ISBN-13s on January 1, 2007. This has been accomplished by prefixing all ISBN-10s with the Bookland EAN prefix '978' (not '979') and recalculating the check digit. '978' can be thought of as the area code to which all ISBN-10s belong. All ISBN-13s that begin with '978' can be presumed to have corresponding ISBN-10s. This logic allows trading partners to readily translate between ISBN-10s and ISBN-13s.

While no one has mentioned it in this thread, according to Bowker there is no such thing as an EISBN or eISBN;
there is only ISBN that would appropriately be used on printed books; eBooks; sheet music; etc. While the prod decscription for an eBook now less frequently lists eISBN in outlets that I visit, this not-according-to-the-rule-book practice can still be seen.

ISBN is completely independent of copyright, although it might serve as some support if there is copyright infringement on your work. Unfortunately depending on the nature of such copyright infringement and how much of a loss it is to you, the cost of pursuing things legally can outweigh the potential benefits.

As someone indicated in earlier post, having ISBN on your work might be a good business decision, and for some outlets might be a requirement. In my opinion, if your author name is not particularly unique, having ISBN from legitimate source gives a unique identifier to your work. I believe it was here that someone mentioned purchasing "recycled" ISBN numbers. For me this seems like a red flag. Unlike telephone numbers which do get recycled, according to my information from Bowker there is no such thing as a recycled ISBN number. It is owned by one person who then can assign it to one work in perpetuity.

13 digit ISBN the 978 indicates item is from book publisher
2-digit group identifier e.g. 0 or 1 for English speaking
4-digit publisher code

The above 9 digits would remain constant ... followed by 3-digit for the unique title

The 13th digit is a check digit that is generated by a formula using the previous 12 digits, and makes sure that certain errors in ISBN are not present, e.g. if correct ISBN contains 766 but had been transcribed as 776; or if it contains 2374 and were transcribed as 2347.

Hope that some of this is helpful.

Captcha said:

Then I checked The Help as an example of a major print-published book, and the same ISBN called the book up in both Amazon and Kobo. Same with the latest James Patterson book.

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Amazon doesn't use ISBN at all for their Kindle books, although they will list an ISBN (e.g. Page Numbers Source ISBN: 0399155341).

When I search the Kindle store for The Help's ePub ISBN (9781440697661), that does indeed take me to Amazon's Kindle version, even though that number doesn't appear anywhere on the page. That's just marketing on Amazon's part, though; a number hidden in a database because they don't want to lose a sale.

You can no more use the same ISBN for the .mobi version and the .ePub version than you can use the same ISBN for the hardback and the trade paperback version. That it works at all at the moment is due to the kludgy and fragmented nature of ebook vending, and the fact that ebooks are still a minor part of the market.

I expect a great deal of wailing and gnashing of teeth when it all gets regularized.

Well, you might want to check some major epublishers--because they seem to be happily doing what you say they can't.

veinglory said:

Well, you might want to check some major epublishers--because they seem to be happily doing what you say they can't.

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Not that they can't, but that they shouldn't. If they actually are using the same ISBN for multiple formats, it'll rise up and bite 'em on the ass. I promise you.

James D. Macdonald said:

....

You can no more use the same ISBN for the .mobi version and the .ePub version than you can use the same ISBN for the hardback and the trade paperback version. That it works at all at the moment is due to the kludgy and fragmented nature of ebook vending, and the fact that ebooks are still a minor part of the market.

I expect a great deal of wailing and gnashing of teeth when it all gets regularized.

{And then in later post} Not that they can't, but that they shouldn't. If they actually are using the same ISBN for multiple formats, it'll rise up and bite 'em on the ass. I promise you.

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James, I agree that this is the "official" position of ISBN agency and Bowker who is the sole source of ISBNs in USA, however I personally do NOT agree that it will inevitably end up as a "... bite 'em on the ass" situation. The established print book industry model wants to also control the eBook industry and while they might succeed in imposing their ways and rules and pay to play, I hope it is not inevitable.

The "official" Bowker "rules/guidelines" are explained at the bottom of this (http://www.publishingbasics.com/2011/03/07/do-i-really-need-a-separate-isbn-for-my-e-book/) web page by a different writer. As I have indicated in a different thread on this forum, Bowker is a business and it is motivated to sell ISBN and other identifiers, and would be happy to see eBook publishers for title offerings with essentially the identical content buy/use as many ISBNs as possible. In my opinion, I think that for many self-publishers having a single ISBN for their ePub version, and none at all at least initially for Kindle/mobi might work out just fine. Thoughtful people, like James it seems have come to a different conclusion.

James, might end being correct, however it is not the only solution for the industry and end users to avoid confusion. Consumer demand and frustration with inability to loan their eBooks, or sell them used, or use one purchase on multiple reading devices, and ... have and might lead to changes. If one commits up front to buying and using different ISBNs, you as an individual need to decide if there is a cost/benefit to you. If you are paying money for the ISBN; or using a 3rd party - versus going direct - who includes "free" ISBN you are still paying via what you give up in your royalty so it is a hidden cost.

Separate ISBNs are one way for the book and eBook industry to prevent confusion in what Bowker refers to as the supply chain.
Bowker wrote in response on web page cited above
3. Assuming the same content, what are the features that distinguish different e-book products and determine whether separate ISBNs are required?
The key features are whether any specific device or software is required to read the e-book and what user functionality is provided (e.g. copy, print, lend etc.). As mentioned above, this is normally defined by a combination of file format and Digital Rights Management software.

Since cross platform and free apps are the new direction, and one does need the correct software, mot end users are likely to find out about this on the website where they purchase and don't need it "called out" by the ISBN. I contend in contrast to Bowker that the file extension and the metadata can tell the story without having to proliferate the use of ISBNs.
While Bowker does seem to grasp some of the differences between paper/print editions and eBooks, they seem loathe to acknowledge that any eBook file has a metadata area (or in the case of the less used PDF file format a Properties area). So, in most eBook cases the file extension by itself (.mobi .azw . epub .pdf and etc.) that is being passed around in the supply chain, and to me more importantly at the end user level typically makes alot clear all by itself. Bowker above points to "lending" as one aspect of determining that something is a different version and therefore needs a unique ISBN. Well this seems to add confusion, since as we know Amazon/Kindle, NookBook at the level of the Kindle program-feature, or B&N program-feature level at least for now sets the parameters for how a book that has been made lendable, will actually function and the same eBook (with identical ISBN or in the case of Amazon ASIN) can operate in different ways regarding lending, and this might change over time.

If you have read this far, you know that I am probably beating on a _____. But it is your money and choice. In the web page cited above and on the Bowker.com website it is clear that Bowker and the "industry" will want to sell you yet another identifier down the line. As I said, I contend that file extension and metadata can keep things clear, and not cost the publisher/author money. Bowker writes:
12. How can all the different versions of an e-book be linked together?
The ISTC (International Standard Text Code) is a new ISO identifier that identifies the underlying textual content of the book and is therefore shared by all digital and physical manifestations of the same title. The assignment of ISTCs would facilitate the linking of all versions and, with the addition of a filtering element such as product form, could also be used to link all e-book versions. Some systems already use an internal work identifier to provide this functionality but this cannot be used in the supply chain.
Note that the implementation of ISTC also facilitates the“inheritance“ of metadata from work level to manifestation level and can save rekeying.

As a new forum member, I apologize for taking up so much space on an area that should not be that big a concern to most people as it probably has little to do with your initial success with your eBook. And I do value what James has written on this and other issues.

Edward
P.S. I am not an author, but work for one. My posts need a good editor!

In my opinion, I think that for many self-publishers having a single ISBN for their ePub version, and none at all at least initially for Kindle/mobi might work out just fine.

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It will work just fine because Amazon does not use ISBNs. That's because Amazon sells more than books; they need stock numbers that can describe a lawnmower as easily as it can describe an ebook.

There's no need for ISBNs when ebooks are being sold directly from the publisher's sites, either. It's only when you break out into the wider world of commerce, with multiple vendors selling multiple products, that some unique system of identification becomes a requirement.

You're getting hung up on Bowker and ISBNs. Don't. Pretend that Bowker never existed.

Once you get out of the cracker-barrel stage of commerce, how do you tell the difference between an eight-inch, green-handled phillips-head screwdriver and an eight-inch, green-handled straight-blade screwdriver? How do you order a screwdriver and make sure you get the right kind?

If ISBN didn't exist (which was the situation up 'til the mid-seventies; I'd prefer not to go back to that particular set of Good Old Days, thanks), we'd have to invent some kind of unique identifier to allow us to buy and sell books and give the customers a fighting chance of getting what they want.

ISBN, incidentally, wasn't invented by Bowker. The "I" stands for "International." Other countries have their own ISBN issuing authorities. In some countries (e.g. Canada), the government issues ISBNs free. So you should also put the idea that ISBNs are some kind of plot to make money out of your head. Following that track won't lead to any useful conclusions either.

It is interesting, though, that in Canada where ISBNs are free, I couldn't find a single mention of multiple ISBNs for different e-book formats on the ISBN registration website. They don't discourage it, but they don't encourage it either.

Now, maybe that's because Canada doesn't care about the efficiency of e-commerce, or maybe it's because they don't see the need for multiple ISBNs. As a general rule, I would say that Canada LOVES to regulate industries (thank you for regulating the banks, Ottawa!), but maybe they've decided to let this one slide.

I get your point, Jim, about increased clarity if different numbers are used for different formats. But I disagree that we'd have to invent a unique moniker to help customers get the right format. The monikers already exist: .pdf, .mobi, etc. And to me, these are more transparent than a nearly-random collection of numbers, so I don't think they interfere with clarity.

Captcha said:

It is interesting, though, that in Canada where ISBNs are free, I couldn't find a single mention of multiple ISBNs for different e-book formats on the ISBN registration website.

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I submit .mobi, epub and PDF versions for the same ISBN and they've never said anything about it.

James D. Macdonald said:

It will work just fine because Amazon does not use ISBNs. That's because Amazon sells more than books; they need stock numbers that can describe a lawnmower as easily as it can describe an ebook.

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Amazon does not require an ISBN, however it does seem that in addition to its own (ASIN) identifier number in product data, Amazon will also utilize ISBN, e.g.

• Format: Kindle Edition
• File Size: 424 KB
• Print Length: 260 pages
• Page Numbers Source ISBN: 0061964549
• Publisher: HarperCollins e-books; Reprint edition (January 5, 2010)
• Sold by: HarperCollins Publishers
• Language: English
• ASIN: B003100URE

This is perhaps being nit picky, but since there is so much inaccurate information about ISBN (and copyright), including what I have posted myself at times, I like to attempt to add accuracy, and completeness.