Teacher banned for spraying asian kids

McTheebs said:

For those who are outraged, lighten up.

The kid who got sprayed probably wasn't scarred for life.

One day he'll look back on the memory just as people today look back on teachers hitting them with rulers.

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The difference here though, is that teachers hitting students was at one time condoned by society. It was used as discipline – to get the kids under control. Now other forms of control are used. The air freshener seems to have been used for cultural humiliation. You think that's justified in some way?

I don't understand your stance that we should lighten up because the kids probably weren't scarred for life. Is that some sort of criteria for what kind of abuse is acceptable in our society?

McTheebs said:

It's funny because it's a stupid thing to do.

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In your opinion. Unless someone made you "Arbiter of Funny Things" while I wasn't looking.

McTheebs said:

For those who are outraged, lighten up.

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Make me.

McTheebs said:

The kid who got sprayed probably wasn't scarred for life.

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"Probably." And if he was, is it still funny?

McTheebs said:

One day he'll look back on the memory just as people today look back on teachers hitting them with rulers.

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And your crystal ball tells you that?

You're new here. I'd recommend you go easy on making definitive statements on things that are matters of opinion.

She did more than just spray them though. She singled them out for doing nothing wrong. She humiliated them in front of their peers making them stand on newspaper if they wet themselves by accident or soiled themselves, they were told to stand on the paper until their parents arrived to collect them. She washed their hands with disinfectant which probably irritated their skin as well. She didn't do the sensible thing which would be taking them out of the classroom, getting them unchanged and making sure they are all right and consoling them for it. That is how a teacher is meant to treat kids that age.

These are only little kids we're talking about - kids of 3 and 6. These aren't kids Comprehensive school age. And it wouldn't be acceptable to them either. You know once a teacher spots out something "wrong" or "different" about you and uses that to single you out, kids at that age will use it against you, siding with the teacher. There will most likely be lasting effects on the kids for years. I don't suppose you have ever suffered bullying from a teacher especially in your formative years. If you had you wouldn't be finding it funny at all.

People seriously think this is funny?

I don't even know how to go addressing that beyond

Maxinquaye said:

If it actually wasn't a very serious racist thing to do, which should not garner much laughing, I could not help chuckle a bit at this bit of news out of the UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/feb/15/teacher-banned-air-freshener-asian

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Would you still be chuckling if it was your child? Or if that child had an asthma attack because of it? Or if that child was allergic? Or if that child became the victim of bullies because the teacher had given them permission to be racist through her actions?

I think not.

The reason I chuckled is that half of my English friends would have asked the kids where they could find a decent curry, considering that curry is a part of the staple diet. Particularly the undecent one that makes the English search for the decent curry with such energy.

It would be like an Arizona teacher spraying kids of mexican origin if they smelled of Tacos.

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your sweeping generalisations are astounding.

Zoombie said:

It'd be okay if he was spraying everyone.

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no. it really wouldn't.

billythrilly7th said:

Horrible thing to do, but chuckle worthy nonetheless.

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No. It's not. See above.

fireluxlou said:

She also made them stand on newspaper if they wet themselves and washed their hands with disinfectant. Not funny at all.

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This was another part of it. Some of those kids had to stand - IN THEIR SOILED CLOTHES for up to an hour before parents could get to them to collect them. Think abotu that for a moment all those who think this is funny.

I have a four year old child who is at school now. Sometimes she, like all the other kids her age, has accidents. If I thought for one moment she was being left to stand in her wet or soiled clothes until I could get out of work to collect her, there would be bloodshed.

Aside from causing rashes and infections, this can have a massive psychological effect on the child, and can regress their toilet habits.

Similarly, washing the hands in disinfectant meant for floors - not funny, and can cause injury due to the harshness of the disinfectant. What if one of those kids rubbed their eye with wet hands and blinded themselves? Would it still be funny then?

My daughter has asthma, and she can have reactions to the slightest things, and there's no way of knowing what will set a child off. We only found out she had asthma when she had an attack one day, what if that happened to one of those kids.

McTheebs said:

It's funny because it's a stupid thing to do.

For those who are outraged, lighten up.

The kid who got sprayed probably wasn't scarred for life.

One day he'll look back on the memory just as people today look back on teachers hitting them with rulers.

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I see you got yourself banned, but your attitude is awful. You don't know the effects it will have on the kids involved. It was lucky that no one was injured or had a reaction.

If one of those kids had died because of an asthma attack or an allergic reaction as a result of being sprayed with airfreshner, would you still think it was funny then?

fireluxlou said:

She did more than just spray them though. She singled them out for doing nothing wrong. She humiliated them in front of their peers ......
....
These are only little kids we're talking about - kids of 3 and 6. These aren't kids Comprehensive school age. And it wouldn't be acceptable to them either. You know once a teacher spots out something "wrong" or "different" about you and uses that to single you out, kids at that age will use it against you, siding with the teacher. There will most likely be lasting effects on the kids for years. I don't suppose you have ever suffered bullying from a teacher especially in your formative years. If you had you wouldn't be finding it funny at all.

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Bolding mine. But I agree with this.

The woman is a disgrace to teaching and shouldn't be allowed near kids. Imagine how you would react if a parent did that to their child? There would be outrage, so why do some people think it's 'funny' becaue a teacher did it?

Would you, as an adult, stand for an employer who did that to you? No, I be you wouldn't, because it's not funny, it's humilating. So why do people think it's okay to do it to children, are they not real people or something? Or is it beause the kids were asian? Is it okay because asians aren't real people?

It's not acceptable, at all. Child protecting legisation is there for a reason.

And, even after the ban, you can be sure she won't get another teaching job. People will remember. I know I certainly wouldn't want her teaching my kids.

shaldna said:

This was another part of it. Some of those kids had to stand - IN THEIR SOILED CLOTHES for up to an hour before parents could get to them to collect them. Think abotu that for a moment all those who think this is funny.

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This was actually policy at our local infants/primary. A heck of a lot of parents complained, did no good. At my daughter's primary they hesitate to touch any kids, for anything, unless it's a medical emergency. It's bloody ridiculous(even the teachers complain about it!)...but I've got nowhere else to send her.

One of her classmates in year one was left in his own mess(we are not talking pee here) for an hour before his mum turned up to take him home. It didn't matter how much she complained, policy is still the same (though the teachers sneak it when they can)

IdiotsRUs said:

This was actually policy at our local infants/primary. A heck of a lot of parents complained, did no good. At my daughter's primary they hesitate to touch any kids, for anything, unless it's a medical emergency. It's bloody ridiculous(even the teachers complain about it!)...but I've got nowhere else to send her.

One of her classmates in year one was left in his own mess(we are not talking pee here) for an hour before his mum turned up to take him home. It didn't matter how much she complained, policy is still the same (though the teachers sneak it when they can)

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Yup to the first part of your post. I worked at a daycare one summer, and the kids loved me and crawled into my lap and hugged me and kissed my cheek. I was warned to be very careful.

About a year later, I took a child development class in high school, and we had "littles." Again, I fell in love with the little boy assigned to me, and I hated his awful background and would have rescued him from his mother if I could. He always wanted to hold my hand and be carried and sit in my lap, and my teacher wouldn't let me. It made my heart ache.

As for the second part, though I'm glad it wasn't your daughter, that's awful. I cannot believe the teacher got away with that! It's sick, really! If I were that mother, there'd be law suits. Either that, or my husband would have clocked the bitch.

It wasn't the teacher though--they're hamstrung by policy. They hate having to do it, but must.

Funny isn't it, how lots of parents and teachers complain about it--yet policy continues.

Wow. Why? HOW is that policy?

That policy is, hopefully, going to be changed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11458137

I am actually surprised that no parent has challenged the policy via health and safety. It is neither conducive to good health nor safe to have a child left in their own waste.

Alpha Echo said:

Wow. Why? HOW is that policy?

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Because paedophiles, along with terrorists, are the current bogeymen of choice for the British government and media. (Yes they are awful, but no they aren't jumping out of every shadow like the govt./media would have us believe).

Shakesbear said:

That policy is, hopefully, going to be changed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11458137

I am actually surprised that no parent has challenged the policy via health and safety. It is neither conducive to good health nor safe to have a child left in their own waste.

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Wow. I didn't even...I couldn't make the connection. How awful for the child! How embarrassing and humiliating and awful to have to sit in his/her mess until a parent gets there! And uncomfortable! And totally UNHEALTHY!

How in the world could anyone find this a good idea?? I'm flabergasted. I mean, geez, around here, some parents work an hour or two away from their kids' school. No to mention traffic.

That's horrible.

You know what else? The policy of teachers not touching kids to avoid issues of pedophilia isn't just ridiculous, it could also be psychologically damaging.

Harry Harlow performed psychological experiments on monkeys (warning - google results, especially video records, are not only unpleasant but upsetting - extreme trigger warning) that involved withholding physical contact and other forms of contact, from giving them a surrogate mother made of metal mesh, or a soft surrogate mother that would regularly "reject" the infant, up to several weeks of solitary confinement in what he himself dubbed the "pit of despair".

They had all the food and water they needed, a clean place to go toilet and were neither too hot or too cold. All they lacked was touch, to varying degrees. The result was monkeys that, even after being returned to groups, were pretty much sociopathic. The vast majority were never rehabilitated and had to be put down.

Further research following from that has proven that - for pretty much all animals including humans, physical contact, affection and touch are essential.

And here we are, knowing this, and leaving children to be denied something as simple as a hand held by some of the adults that care for them.

BunnyMaz said:

You know what else? The policy of teachers not touching kids to avoid issues of pedophilia isn't just ridiculous, it could also be psychologically damaging.

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Agreed,

When I was at primary school, almost 25 years ago, I had a teacher who was a huge big woman, nearly six feet tall, late fifties and built like an ox, we were terrified of her. I struggled with a particular aspect of school work for months, and when I finally got it I remember she gave me a huge big hug and told me how proud she was of me. I got a certificate of achievement (which I still have) and a red pin badge that said 'teacher's prize' on it (which I still have) but what I remember most was that hug, it was a validation of everything I had been trying to do, and for the first time I wasn't afraid of her, and was never afraid of her from then on.

At my daughters school they are very good with the kids, perhaps because it's a very small country school - there are only 60 kids in the whole school, and each class has a teacher and a full time class room assistant, they have a ration of 1 teacher to every 7 pupils, which is amazing.

Before she started we had a long talk with her teachers about her needs - there are some kids at the school who need more than others, for instance there are children who need help to go to the toilet, children with disabilities who need help to get changed for PE etc, and some children, like mine, whoa re just starting and who still have toilet accidents.

Her teacher even explained how they have a drawer with 'emergency' supplies - meaning pants and socks and tracksuit bottoms for anyone who has an accident. And while they encourage independence, they will help a child who asks for it, which is something I, as a parent, find very important.

I used to be a riding instructor, and I taught some secondary school when I was doing my degree, and we had child protection classes and courses to attend. But the overriding issue with them is about protecting the child, not depriving it of physical contact or help.

I have seen incidents where kids have fallen off ponies and been crying, and the instructor was too afraid of being prosecuted to even pick the child up. I don't do that. If a child is crying I will pick them up, I will hug them if they need a hug, and I have yet to have a parent have an issue with that, most are actually grateful that I have taken the time to comfort the child.

as a parent, and as a teacher, I feel that sometimes these things can be taken too far in the name of legislation.

A long time ago I taught at a school for Delicate Children - a designation that no longer exists. The definition of Delicate Children was that the child would not thrive in a mainstream school. Some of the kids had terminal illnesses, some had debilitating conditions. There were kids with cerebral palsy and epilepsy, abused kids and those with brain damage. One of my class had petit mal and on one occasion I had to carry him back to school after a walk to a local park. I have so many memories of the kids but two are very pertinent to this thread.

One girl had cerebral palsy. Her body was never at rest and at times she would wet herself. Her mum always sent her into school with clean undies and plastic bags. On a trip out one day she wet herself. There was no where for the girl to go and change. With out any prompting from the adults in the party the kids formed a circle round her, with their backs to her, so she could change. She did and quietly thanked her classmates.

I had a lad in my class whose behaviour was - well, bad, but that is an understatement. The ed psych who visited the school observed him and suggested that every time he behaved in an unacceptable way I gave him a hug. He was warned that this would happen. He was also told that the hug would happen in a full school assembly. The boys behaviour changed for the better. At the end of the term the lad left the school as his family were moving. He gave me a Christmas card in which he had written a message for me. He thanked me for helping him to change his behaviour, said he didn't really hate me and wished he had had the courage to behave badly one more time as he would have like the hug. I cried.

and wished he had had the courage to behave badly one more time as he would have like the hug

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That is lovely!

Shakesbear said:

That policy is, hopefully, going to be changed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11458137

I am actually surprised that no parent has challenged the policy via health and safety. It is neither conducive to good health nor safe to have a child left in their own waste.

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Oh, it's been challenged. (Not sure about under H&S). Loudly. By teachers, parents and parent-governors (one of whom was a QC - but he got so disgusted, he took his kids out of the school).

Does no good. Not with this headmaster. I could go on at length about the things that kids/teachers all enjoyed that he banned....but I won't. Suffice tyo say, 1 and a half years, my girl is at a different school. Also suffice to say the teachers hate the policy as much as the parents, and try to get round it when they can. The teachers are fabulous - the no-touch policy is not.

ETA: Although it had to be said, the kids have learnt in many cases to hug each other.* But there should be that from teachers too. It's sad, especially when the kids and teachers are so great together.

*previously there was a massage thing they did - fully clothed! - where children each learnt comforting ways to massage. It was in no way inappropriate, the kids LOVED it mostly, but could sit out if they didn't like it (My son did, he always fell asleep when anyone massaged him) and it promoted a kind of bonding, and less fear of touch, calmed down the more unruly etc. The difference in the kids was noticeable - happier, more relaxed. My daughter used to practice on the cat. One person complained, said it was inappropriate and threatened to pull their kid(AND got it into national papers - the Mail, ofc, in 'kids touch each others arms! shock' The one and only time I've commented on a Mail piece - to say what a load of tosh). It carried on - until the new headmaster took over, and he banned it despite much protest.