Urgh. Amazon really IS taking over the world.

kaitie · Oct 11, 2011

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/penny-marshall-book-deal-amazon-com-142358395.html

Sorry if this is mentioned elsewhere, but my brief perusal didn't notice it. Anyway, I'm not sure how I feel about this. Actually, no. That's not true. I know exactly how I feel about it. I feel like this is all a plot of Amazon's to dominate the publishing field and put everyone else out of business so they can make more money. Conspiracy theoryish? Maybe, but seriously.

I'm also curious, if anyone knows, what the publishing world's opinion of this whole Amazon thing is. I don't just mean in terms of putting people out of business, but in terms of professionalism. Are they qualified to be someone's publisher? What level of quality do they have? Are their books stocked in stores as well as on their website?

Do they really think they can sell enough copies to make up for the offers they're putting out, or is this sort of like selling kindles at a loss to crowd out the competition?

I'm just looking to see what everyone else's opinions are on this. I'm also curious--if Amazon offered you a deal would you take it?

VTwriter · Oct 11, 2011

kaitie said:
I'm just looking to see what everyone else's opinions are on this. I'm also curious--if Amazon offered you a deal would you take it?

Yes.

leahzero · Oct 11, 2011

He declined to offer financial details, but said that Amazon's offer was "a lot" and that it also agreed — as it usually does — to a much higher royalty on e-books than the 25 percent traditionally given by publishers.

This is good for authors.

It is troubling that the world's largest bookseller/distributor is now becoming a major player in the publishing game, but better contract terms for authors is something I can't complain about.

kaitie · Oct 11, 2011

That's what makes me nervous, though. One could argue that getting 70% self-publishing is better contract terms as well. And I agree that higher royalties is awesome.

At the same time, there seem to be some potential conflicts of interest and I don't think Amazon being the only game in town is a good thing. I know that's a slight exaggeration, but they already have more influence than any one company should have, IMO.

It's possible that Amazon will force publishers to start offering better deals to authors to be competitive, which could benefit us.

gothicangel · Oct 12, 2011

kaitie said:
if Amazon offered you a deal would you take it?

No, because I want my book available at more outlets than just Amazon. I want to see it in the bookstore windows in Newcastle, I want to see it in the gift shops at Historic Scotland, National Trust and English Heritage sites . . .

goldmund · Oct 12, 2011

gothicangel said:
No, because I want my book available at more outlets than just Amazon. I want to see it in the bookstore windows in Newcastle, I want to see it in the gift shops at Historic Scotland, National Trust and English Heritage sites . . .

So would I, but then again I'd also like to live in the 80s and use a typewriter. Some things are ending and there's no going back.

I'm of two minds about this piece of news.
BAD: It's not OK for a distributor to be a publisher, because they might select works with only profit in mind, think a parade of Stephenie Meyers.

GOOD: The other publishing houses, to stay in the business, might have to raise the royalties, too. And let's be honest, the cut that the authors got so far is ridiculous. Compare it with how much a screenwriter gets for one script.

areteus · Oct 12, 2011

I'm always wary of potential monopolies and am suspicious of a company levering into 2 of the arms of publishing - publication and distribution.

I also agree with gothicangel - I want to see my book in book shops!

KTC · Oct 12, 2011

I'm just excited to read Penny's memoir. (-:

waylander · Oct 12, 2011

Interesting to see they are starting a SF/F/H imprint

Alitriona · Oct 12, 2011

They are offering good terms to get authors on board but this sounds vaguely familiar, a little like selling books at a 99c introductory price. As soon as the book has an audience the price gets wacked up.

I'm thinking out loud here and this is just my opinion. If Amazon manage to gain the monopoly in publishing and ebooks there will be dramatic shifts in royalty rates for authors signed by Amazon and self-pubbers. Amazon is in the business of making money and they will benefit themselves in the long run. Terms will be significantly less than authors get from publishers now.

willietheshakes · Oct 12, 2011

goldmund said:
So would I, but then again I'd also like to live in the 80s and use a typewriter. Some things are ending and there's no going back.

I'm of two minds about this piece of news.
BAD: It's not OK for a distributor to be a publisher, because they might select works with only profit in mind, think a parade of Stephenie Meyers.

GOOD: The other publishing houses, to stay in the business, might have to raise the royalties, too. And let's be honest, the cut that the authors got so far is ridiculous. Compare it with how much a screenwriter gets for one script.

As opposed to those numerous publishers who don't have profit in mind?

gothicangel · Oct 12, 2011

goldmund said:
So would I, but then again I'd also like to live in the 80s and use a typewriter. Some things are ending and there's no going back.

Oh dear, this isn't going to turn into one of those threads is it?.

Book shops are doing fine, if you have evidence to the contrary please provide links.

goldmund · Oct 12, 2011

gothicangel said:
Oh dear, this isn't going to turn into one of those threads is it?.

Book shops are doing fine, if you have evidence to the contrary please provide links.

I don't really know those threads, so I cannot answer. I don't wish any harm be done to bookshops, rest assured, yet nostalgia -- which I feel, too -- tends to skew the perspective.
When I get grouchy over The New Times, I remind myself of one story by Thurber in which an old Royal Astrologist rushed into the throne room:
"Woe on us! The stars are disappearing!"
Turned out he was going blind.

willietheshakes: well, I trust that publishers still feel some kind of allegiance to The Literature, unlike them dirty peddlers! ;-)

gothicangel · Oct 12, 2011

I think that anyone who worships before the altar of Amazon as the author's-best-friend are going to find themselves drinking from a poisoned chalice.

Personally, I never like typewriters, anyway.

Namatu · Oct 12, 2011

gothicangel said:
I think that anyone who worships before the altar of Amazon as the author's-best-friend are going to find themselves drinking from a poisoned chalice.

This.

Amazon as distributor and publisher is a conflict of interest.

Personally, I never like typewriters, anyway.

I was fond of typewriters while they lasted, but modern day contraptions are so much more convenient!

Alitriona · Oct 12, 2011

gothicangel said:
Personally, I never like typewriters, anyway.

Very bizarre dream last night. I was being chased by the enormous cream and brown metal monstrosity that used to sit on the wide shelf at the end of my bed. My fingers ached after one page on that thing.

I don't miss typewriters.

gothicangel · Oct 12, 2011

Alitriona said:
I don't miss typewriters.

I think because I was born in 1981, by the time I came to use them, it was the dawn of the internet age. I did have buy one once, it went straight back to the shop!

strictlytopsecret · Oct 12, 2011

Maybe I'm missing something here. How is it a "conflict of interest" to distribute/directly sell a product a company has itself produced (or has hired someone else to produce)? How is this different than, say, an outlet or factory store (e.g., Nike store, J Crew Outlet) where a given company is selling its own wares?

~STS~

Phaeal · Oct 12, 2011

gothicangel said:
I think that anyone who worships before the altar of Amazon as the author's-best-friend are going to find themselves drinking from a poisoned chalice.

Personally, I never like typewriters, anyway.

Ack. I don't miss typewriters either. Not one little bit. Word processing beats sliced bread to soggy, gritty crumbs and then spits on the sad remains.

To paraphrase a favorite saying: Writers shouldn't fear their publishers -- publishers should fear their writers!

kuwisdelu · Oct 12, 2011

Because it's worked so well when cable providers/ISP's also became content providers...

Yes, I'm sure a book distributor becoming a publisher will work out great.

:sarcasm

jazzman99 · Oct 12, 2011

Meh, I'll get more worried if somebody on the level of Stephen King or George R. R. Martin or James Patterson--a name-brand author whose new releases actually get people into bookstores who otherwise don't go there regularly--suddenly makes all their books Amazon exclusives. And that's not happening for a long, long time, if ever. Marshall's book might be terrific (as celebrity memoirs go), but it's not likely to be a must-read for a lot of people.

Toothpaste · Oct 12, 2011

strictlytopsecret said:
Maybe I'm missing something here. How is it a "conflict of interest" to distribute/directly sell a product a company has itself produced (or has hired someone else to produce)? How is this different than, say, an outlet or factory store (e.g., Nike store, J Crew Outlet) where a given company is selling its own wares?

~STS~

Because a Nike store will only sell the Nike brand. Up until Amazon started as a publisher it was a store that sold everyone's brand. Books are promoted on Amazon either because they are selling very well, or the publishers have paid Amazon to promote the work.

What happens now that Amazon is publishing its own books? Do its own books now get choice placement above all the other products it promotes? Does this mean the competition (other publishers) will not even have a chance at promoting their stuff on Amazon if it would take the place of one of their books?

Amazon currently is one of the few places you can get books these days (especially with chains like Borders going under). If all the chains fail, then Amazon might become the go to place for books. And if Amazon has it's own imprint, will that mean that unless you are published with them, they won't advertise you?

These are questions worth asking. I'm not saying that Amazon has shown any sign of doing this, but monopolies are monopolies. And people let power get to their head.

However, on the other side, as a writer, if Amazon offered me a deal, and it was the best one on the table, of course I'd take it. The person in charge of their publishing division seems like he knows what he is doing, and the woman in charge of marketing was my old publicist at my former publisher, and I can tell you she was great. So they've gathered a quality team together. A team, I should point out, that likely has nothing to do with Amazon the store, and has little knowledge of the long term goals of Amazon the monopoly.

Manuel Royal · Oct 12, 2011

Miss my typewriter. (Pictured in avatar.)

Don't want to sign a contract with Amazon.

kaitie · Oct 12, 2011

Namatu said:
This.

Amazon as distributor and publisher is a conflict of interest.

I was fond of typewriters while they lasted, but modern day contraptions are so much more convenient!

Not to mention the fact that they also do self-publishing. We've seen the backlash commercial publishers get when they start a self-publishing arm. Amazon already has practically a monopoly on self-publishing at the moment, but generally speaking it's considered a conflict of interest when a publisher offers both. It's met with an awful lot of skepticism.

Essentially, what makes this dangerous in my mind is that our (writers and readers) well-being is dependent on the people in charge of Amazon being benevolent. If Amazon is really concerned about writers and offering them a fair shake, and if they're really trying to reach a wider audience, and so on and so forth, then this could all be great. The thing is, I have a feeling that they're more concerned with their bottom line than authors or readers. Hell, the fact that they have such a wide reach implies that they can't be all that concerned.

My worry is that while this might look good now, once they're the only game in town (or have limited the competition) they can dictate prices and advances and royalties that are more beneficial to them. And considering their past, this seems like exactly what would happen.

We've seen them lower hardcover prices to ridiculously low, unprofitable for anyone else prices to screw people over. We've seen them sell kindles for less than they're worth to edge out the market on other ereaders. They're trying to do it now with the fire. They've intentionally priced hardcovers lower than ebooks to make readers angry over what they viewed as ebook prices that were "too high."

Amazon has been strong arming the industry for years now. And an awful lot of what they've done has shown no concern whatsoever for the authors (Macmillan anyone?). I guess what this comes down to for me is I don't trust them. I want to trust them, but I think history has shown it's probably better to take every move they make with a grain of salt.

strictlytopsecret · Oct 12, 2011

Toothpaste said:
Amazon currently is one of the few places you can get books these days (especially with chains like Borders going under).

Nah. There are plenty of places to buy books that have nothing to do with Amazon.com.

If Amazon-the-Publisher consistently and exclusively puts out low quality material, Amazon-the-Publisher will fail. People won't buy books from Amazon that they do not want to read. Especially not when other options are readily available.

On the other hand, if Amazon-the-Publisher is putting out high quality, easily accessible material produced by well-paid authors, they will thrive. Isn't that the goal of every publisher? Of every author?

If Amazon promotes their own brand/imprint over those of others (understandable), other publishers could drop Amazon altogether and instead elect to sell their books at their own website or via brick-and-mortar outlets. Bookstores and libraries aren't going to disappear because Amazon wants to try its hand in the publishing business.

Competition is a beautiful thing. If Amazon is paying their authors better than the Big 5, the Big 5 may need to change their strategies accordingly. Adding another publisher to the current mix holds a lot of promise. The more, the merrier.

Amazon is a for-profit company with its hand in more than just books. It is not in their best financial interest to annoy or inconvenience their customers (end consumers and publishers) to the point where those customers walk away to greener pastures, wallet in hand.

Whether Amazon-the-Publisher succeeds will hinge on whether they can manage to put out a quality product produced by well-paid authors. Bring it on, Amazon. Let's see what you've got.

~STS~

Urgh. Amazon really IS taking over the world.

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