To Join or Not to Join?

Aglaia said:

So, as an unpublished, quite possibly never to be published but would like to be in a perfect world, brand new to the genre, romance "writer," should I join the Romance Writers of America? On principle, I'd like to, but I balk a little at dropping 100 bucks on them, then another $30 or so on my local chapter only to possibly discover that I've done so to receive little to nothing in return (I've done that way too many times to count ). I can manage it, but I'm not exactly rolling in the dough.

Anyway, it seems like lots of people here have experience with them, so I thought I'd ask. Thanks!

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But...but I thought we were going to snare you into the HWA.

I was a member of RWA for about 10 years, 1994-2005. It was GREAT back then, since RWA was a primo place to learn about how the publishing business really worked. Much of that information is now available at places like AW, however RWA does focus on specifically Romance publishers rather than the general state of publishing which does make a difference.

RWA has standard contracts available (with explanation of what's good and bad) from most, if not all, recognized publishing houses and, IIRC, has a service to explain whatever contract you might get to you. RWA also has a lawyer on retainer, a full-time office staff (BOD is volunteer, but the day-to-day business is these people's jobs) and, last I checked, will help you out if you get in a pinch with your agent or editor.

Twice a year, in the monthly newsletter (RWR--Romance Writers Report), RWA publishes a complete list of ALL RWA-recognized publishers (print & e/small press) and ALL agents who accept Romance of any subgenre. Editors, current contact info, and what they're actively looking for. That alone was worth the cost of membership to me, honestly. Monthly updates are published every newsletter as well.

There are several lists that allow you to network online. Networking is probably the #1 benefit that most Romance writers get from belonging to RWA. I've had lunch with Nora Roberts and beta-read for Laura Kinsale, not to mention tons of other people I've corresponded with over the years. The tales of great friendships started within the scope of RWA are commonplace.

RWA does have its challenges--any group of such size and such passion will, afterall. Some of them have left my mouth hanging in amazement, but for the most part I never thought I'd wasted my money any year I paid dues.

I rarely belonged to chapters, FWIW. For a while, I belonged to the local face-to-face group and belonged to a couple of the on-line chapters. Demands on my time forced me to drop out of both groups, so there wasn't any trauma associated there.

RWA contests are a primo way to get around the slush piles to an agent & editor, FWIW. Many RWA conferences (local & national) have pitch sessions at little or no cost to RWA members.

I'd highly suggest you know what it is you want out of the group and if it's anything more than getting a monthly newsletter, realize that you'll only get out of the group what you put into it.

The only reason I didn't renew was because my writing moved out of Genre Romance and into Dark Fantasy, FWIW. Though if any of the few Romance projects I still have out and about sell, I'll be rejoining in a heartbeat.

I was a member for 5 years before dropping out. If you do decide to join RWA, bear in mind they can get very junior-high at times. Also: (your mileage may vary on this) my local chapter was totally focused on Harlequin's fiction lines, so much so that when I read for the first time, I was asked which H/S brand I was aiming for. Totally flummoxed me. I stammered, "I haven't thought of any pub in particular, I just wrote a story." They insisted -- you mean you don't prefer one Harlequin line over another?

They didn't quite know what to do about me for a long time.

I'm a member, though not an active one. I don't write romance, but I do put a fair amount of emotion in my stories so for this reason alone I've found my membership in RWA to be useful. I don't go to any of the conferences, but I did join a couple of local chapters and made close friendships with fellow writers. That's the only reason why I keep my RWA membership now.

I've been a member of RWA for two years now and happy with it.

Years back I was a member of RWA for a few years before it was on the internet. Now on the internet and the sub-genres I enjoy it, though the thought of going to a conference terrifies me. lol Though I love mysteries and suspense too.
hee hee

I like the camaraderie of the writers. They're very helpful and friendly.
I didn't know if I wanted to write single title romance. But now I am going to try one or two category romances as the publishers applicable are loosening up.

I get a lot from it such as being a member of ChickLit of the World or whatever it's called. For that you have to be a member of RWA, and there are several other offshoots.

I know it seems like a lot of money but I find it worthwhile. So many writers with so much information !!

Cheers, Josie

I've gotten a lot out of my RWA membership. I joined right around the time I decided I was going to "do this for real" (meaning, stop writing fanfcition and start writing original romances. <G>) back in 2000. I went to my first conference in 2000.

I learned tons of things by being reading the RWR cover-to-cover when I was starting out, going to conferences, being on the list servers.

There's great networking to be had, as has already been pointed out.

Yes, sometimes the organization puts its foot in its mouth, or gets its knickers in a knot. Don't all organizations?

But I think it's worth the price of admission. It was for me. Your mileage may vary.

I belonged to National for several years before I joined a "local" (and I use the term loosely <G> - it's about an hour and forty-five minutes from here.) chapter. You don't have to belong to a local chapter if you don't want to. Conversely, if you DO want to belong to a local, you must join National.

Susan G.

I've been a member of RWA for almost 8 years. Aside from their monthly mag Romance Writer's Report, and the yahoo lists, I get nothing from them. I almost left last year when they revised their standards for PAN status and pulled publisher recognition because it felt to me (and a lot of other e/small press published authors) that they made those revisions to find another way to keep the e and small press pubbed authors out of their club.

So, why do I keep up my membership? Because of my local chapter. That's it. I get a LOT from NJRW - it's a great group of writers and because of them, I'm published. I need to maintain my RWA membership in order to remain in NJRW. If I didn't, I wouldn't bother with RWA because they seem to be more concerned with the Nora Robertses than they are with the unpublished members. IMHO, of course.

Jersey Chick said:

I almost left last year when they revised their standards for PAN status and pulled publisher recognition because it felt to me (and a lot of other e/small press published authors) that they made those revisions to find another way to keep the e and small press pubbed authors out of their club.

So, why do I keep up my membership? Because of my local chapter. That's it. I get a LOT from NJRW - it's a great group of writers and because of them, I'm published. I need to maintain my RWA membership in order to remain in NJRW. If I didn't, I wouldn't bother with RWA because they seem to be more concerned with the Nora Robertses than they are with the unpublished members. IMHO, of course.

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LOL. Jersey, you know I love you, right? So please, please don't take what I'm about to say personally. (I think the NJ chapter ROCKS too! I can't wait to come back to your conference. Gotta get a workshop proposal together for 2009. <G>)

But what you just said? I felt/feel the same way, only completely in REVERSE! I often feel like RWA does way, way more for the unpubs than they do for the pubs. (Chapter meetings are way geared more towards unpubs than pubs. At least, all the meetings I've ever attended at a variety of chapters -- mostly as a speaker, mind you. Now, honestly, there are way more unpubs than pubs in the organization, so that's sort of to be expected.) And I felt like the revision of the "standards" was more like a lowering of the standards, and a way to make the small and epubbed folks happier.

So, like in everything else, it all depends on your POV. LOL.

Hope you still love me!!!

Susan G.

Susan Gable said:

LOL. Jersey, you know I love you, right? So please, please don't take what I'm about to say personally. (I think the NJ chapter ROCKS too! I can't wait to come back to your conference. Gotta get a workshop proposal together for 2009. <G>)

But what you just said? I felt/feel the same way, only completely in REVERSE! I often feel like RWA does way, way more for the unpubs than they do for the pubs. (Chapter meetings are way geared more towards unpubs than pubs. At least, all the meetings I've ever attended at a variety of chapters -- mostly as a speaker, mind you. Now, honestly, there are way more unpubs than pubs in the organization, so that's sort of to be expected.) And I felt like the revision of the "standards" was more like a lowering of the standards, and a way to make the small and epubbed folks happier.

So, like in everything else, it all depends on your POV. LOL.

Hope you still love me!!!

Susan G.

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You quoted me, so I guess I gotta get ya back!

Yep - ya knows I loves ya!

It just seemed to me at the time that they changed those standards to make it more difficult for an epubbed author to attain PAN status.

I still feel this way because if I'd signed my Samhain contract in June '07, I'd be a PAN member. But since I signed it in September, I'm not eligible. There's probably a hint of sour grapes in there (I won't lie on that) and it's probably silly to want or need that validation, but it still burns me to a certain extent.

PAN shman, lol! I've been published for years, but never made the $1000 in royalties required for PAN membership, and that's fine with me. When I am eligible, I won't join. I don't really see much benefit, but I imagine some perceive it as prestige. I could be wrong. Anyway, I've got too much going on to add another membership to my list of orgs I already belong to.

Karen Duvall said:

PAN shman, lol! I've been published for years, but never made the $1000 in royalties required for PAN membership, and that's fine with me. When I am eligible, I won't join. I don't really see much benefit, but I imagine some perceive it as prestige. I could be wrong. Anyway, I've got too much going on to add another membership to my list of orgs I already belong to.

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Karen, if you haven't been a member, then it's hard to speak to what benefits one can receive from an organization, isn't it?

That would be like me trying to speak to what benefits someone could possibly get out of being a member of Thriller. Or the SF writers' group. Or Sisters in Crime.

I've never been a member of any of those groups, so I have no idea if anyone would find it helpful or not.



Personally I would imagine that a writer who's working on those genres could get something out of any of those organizations. I certainly wouldn't say well, I'd never join THAT organization.

Different folks have different needs. And "elitism" from any side of the "Pan schman" divide isn't a helpful thing -- and it's one of the biggest problems going for RWA.

Too much infighting over who gets what, who's qualified for this, etc.

There are different "levels" of publication. Just take a look at PA for an example. The PA authors all feel they should qualify as "published." I am NOT SAYING that being published with a legitimate small press or epub is equal to being "printed" by PA. I'm just pointing out that people's emotions tend to get involved with any of these types of discussions, and everyone feels that their publication credits are worthy -- or else they wouldn't have chosen them.

Professional writers' organizations have to draw lines in the sand. Not everyone's going to like them. Believe me, I've watched organizations like Ninc go through the redefining thing. It's not easy.

Jersey, I'm sorry you got shafted by the change. That sucks, beyond a doubt. I know you weren't the only one. :-/


Susan G.

See, I have no problem with them setting their standards. Frankly, I wouldn't want them to not have standards - but for them to say that anyone who signed a contract on July 13, 2007 with Samhain is PAN-eligible, but anyone who signed on July 14, 2007 *- oops, sorry, you have reach an arbitrary dollar amount first - I think that bites. But, what bugs me, is that the dollar amount is easy for print published authors to attain since most (if not all) print pubs offer relatively sizeable advances. And RWA knows that. It's possible for e and small press authors, but a lot more difficult. So, what does that say? That's what really fries me about it. When epubs began reaching the old criteria, RWA decided then to revamp. What does that say as well?

I'll give you that vanity published authors are not on par with most e and small press authors simply because they pay to play. And I have no problem with RWA's list of what they consider vanity publishers. I agree that authors shouldn't financially contribute toward their books being published. My problem is the PAN criteria, because I feel it was done primarily because RWA does not see epubbed/small press authors as equals to NY print pubbed authors - and I think that sucks.

I don't like being made to feel like a second class citizen by the same group that happily takes my dues every year. I'm published, but not quite published enough... Too published for PRO, but not enough for PAN. And I also wonder what will happen when more and more epubbed authors fulfill the PAN criteria. Will RWA decide they need to revamp again? And the fact that I think they will doesn't make me happy either.

*I don't remember the actual dates, so this is just a guesstimate. I know it was July '07 - just don't remember exactly when.


ETA Sorry about the derail - but this is something to consider when considering membership as well!

Jersey Chick said:

ETA Sorry about the derail - but this is something to consider when considering membership as well!

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Oh, absolutely it is! I don't think it's really a derail at all. Airing the dirty laundry perhaps, but hey, people SHOULD know what they're getting into.

Although...as we've seen, sometimes we THINK we know what we're getting into, and then things change on us. <sigh>

Susan G.

Of course - when I do meet the requirements, I'll be in like Flynn!

As to joining RWA --

RWA costs ... I think it's $100 per year or thereabouts.

Most folks who join RWA never complete and submit a manuscript.
Many, if not most, RWA members who do publish, go with small-, POD-, or e- publishers. While this is an artistic and personal success, it may earn little actual money.
For these people, RWA can be a poor business investment.

If money is a consideration with you, my advice would be to learn writing craft on the web. Perhaps find a solid crit group,
Join RWA only when you have a manuscript drafted, redrafted, polished, and ready to submit. At that point RWA's professional marketing savvy becomes useful to you.


As to eligibility for PAN within RWA ...

PAN is not so much a goal, as a side effect.
PAN membership, and $3.75, will get you a cup of coffee at the Washington National Conference.

Okay. Why does PAN have that $1,000 criterion as a measurement?
I guess there are a variety of opinions on that?

An enquiring mind when it's brought to her attention,

Josie duh

Susan Gable said:

Karen, if you haven't been a member, then it's hard to speak to what benefits one can receive from an organization, isn't it?

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Susan, I've been a member of RWA for 8 years. I like the organization, I just don't think PAN would be right for me.

ETA: I was mainly commiserating with Jersey Chick.

Well said, Jers. I feel pretty much the same way. An author in my chapter published one book with a small press and attained PAN status, while with 5 books by small presses, I could not.

And Josie, I haven't been able to find out why $1000 is important. I guess it's a matter of "trust us: it's important."

This wasn't the only reason I dropped my membership, but if the original criteria for being considered "published" were so valid, why do they keep changing them?

The RWA takes itself a tad bit too seriously at times.

Karen Duvall said:

Susan, I've been a member of RWA for 8 years. I like the organization, I just don't think PAN would be right for me.

.

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Oooohhhhhhh. Sorry. My bad! I thought you were saying you'd never been an RWA member.

oooppss. <G>



Susan G.

Aglaia said:

Thanks to everybody for the great information!


Jersey- I was looking for writing conferences yesterday and came across the NJRW one in October. It looks amazing.

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The Jersey conference IS amazing. It's reasonably small, so you don't get the "help I'm drowing in people" feeling like you can get with a National conference. And the other good thing is Jersey, because of its proximity to the city, always get a GREAT showing of editors and agents.

Plus that chapter just puts on a terrific program. I highly recommend the NJRW conference!

Susan G.