[Reviews] Inkspand

Greetings TKO,

I am the founder of Inkspand.

Mr. Marigny, the author of the DeNiro series, has not paid me anything extra. He paid $30 for a review. Apparently his book is already published. So his intent for using the site is hoping for a positive review so that he can request the reader to post that review on Amazon and/or B&N. (an email sent to the reader asking them to post the review).

That is not the intended use of Inkspand's services, but he's not breaking any rules. either. The feedback is not guaranteed to be positive. It's guaranteed to be honest.

Sincerely,

Karim.

Amanda R. said:

I found this weird in the "Reader Agreement"
a) Inkspand shall credit $10 USD to Your account on www.inkspand.com if a Review that You submit is a Qualifying Review, net any applicable taxes and duties (the “Review Fee”).

and

b) Payment of any credits in Your account on www.inkspand.com is not automatic and You must request payment of any credits from Inkspand. Payments may be subject to a payment processing surcharge, in which case, the effective payment to You may be less than the value of the credits in Your account.

So you aren't even paid the full $10? What a rip!

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Greetings Amanda R and Frimble3,

I am the founder of Inkspand.

I noticed that you questioned the method of payment for readers. It is through paypal. There is a 5 business day hold from the date of submission (of feedback) and payment, but I assure you, the payment is automatic. There's no additional work required for the reader. The hold period is a quality check on the review. If it is deemed to be drivel then the review will be discarded - the author will not use it, and the reader will not be paid. This is set as a protection for authors, so they don't get garbage as feedback.

The legal text has been changed - I should've read over what my lawyers gave me before posting it (I just trusted them). My apologies for the confusion.

Paypal takes a cut of the $10 payment (I think it's 30 or 50cents) which is why I stated that the receiving amount might be less than $10. And since this is a Canadian company, tax must be included for Canadians, which is why I included that part about taxes. (All funds in USD though)

I hope that answers all your questions. And I thank you (seriously) for pointing out that wrong legal jargon. If you have any other pointers, comments, suggestions, I welcome them.

Karim.

Hi Karim,

Thanks for stopping by to answer our questions, it's appreciated. I noticed there was one question by Tko here that you missed:

tko said:

Like someone else commented, how can they pay $10 a review for say, 5 reviews, if the author only paid $30?

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How do you avoid losing money on books that get more than 3 reviews?

response to business model

EMaree said:

Hi Karim,

Thanks for stopping by to answer our questions, it's appreciated. I noticed there was one question by Tko here that you missed:



How do you avoid losing money on books that get more than 3 reviews?

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Greetings EMaree,

The cost is $30 per review, of which the reader gets $10. More details of the process, and the value of the service can be found on the site, under Getting Started. I welcome your feedback and suggestions to improve the site.

Regards,

Karim.

greetings Unimportant

Unimportant said:

I think that you do not understand what editors do.

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My apologies, my intent was not to slag editors. They are an important part of the publishing process. I was only trying to point out the necessity in getting feedback from the target market since they will be the ones rating and reviewing on Amazon.

Regards,

Karim.

So, if I get this right, if an author wants three opinions, he/she pays $90?

What's on offer seems to be reviews rather than beta-reads.

Leaving aside the fact that posting for-pay reviews violates Amazon's TOS (and can possibly get the reviewer's, if not the author's, account revoked), I don't see the advantage to the author in paying to see what "the target market" might say about the book, when by merely publishing it (for free) the author can find out what the target market genuinely does say about the book.

I wonder, too, if a review that said, for example,


would be paid for?

Or would the author find such a review "garbage" or "drivel" and reject it?

Greetings Mr. Macdonald,

James D. Macdonald said:

So, if I get this right, if an author wants three opinions, he/she pays $90?

What's on offer seems to be reviews rather than beta-reads.

Leaving aside the fact that posting for-pay reviews violates Amazon's TOS (and can possibly get the reviewer's, if not the author's, account revoked), I don't see the advantage to the author in paying to see what "the target market" might say about the book, when by merely publishing it (for free) the author can find out what the target market genuinely does say about the book.

I wonder, too, if a review that said, for example,

"This book was embarrassingly badly written. Aside from the grammatical and spelling errors in every paragraph (if not every sentence), the book was badly formatted with weird spacing, strange line lengths, and random page breaks. The plot, if you can call it that, wanders aimlessly before coming to a stop. The characters, what I can tell about them, are both universally unpleasant and completely unmotivated. This book isn't ready for publication."​

would be paid for?

Or would the author find such a review "garbage" or "drivel" and reject it?

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You bring up valid points, Mr. Macdonald.

Let me address them in order.

Yes, 3 reader feedbacks would cost $90.

What a beta reader is offering is a review of the work, which is structured as a) a rating out of 5 stars, b) a minimum 150 word review, and c) the reader's suggested pricing for the ebook.

Again, I reiterate, the author is not paying for a review on Amazon. They are paying for honest feedback in order to hear what their target market likes about the book, what they don't, and to edit their novel accordingly. This is a similar method used by traditional publishers for their stable of authors. Inkspand is offering the same resources to those authors who do not have access to a traditional publisher's services.

Posting reviews to Amazon is the equivalent of you asking your friends, or your beta reader, to post a review of your book on Amazon. It is simply an email request sent to the reader.

Ratings & reviews, once posted, are permanent. Amazon algorithms rank books based on these ratings and reviews, and other readers select (ie. buy) books based on ratings and reviews (I know they influence my decisions). You're right, it is free to publish and see your ratings live. But at that point your ratings are already permanent. Your book will be caught in the algorithm's rankings. At least this way you get to see what a consensus of the target market likes and dislikes to edit your novel accordingly, to hopefully appeal to your target market so that your ratings are favourable.

As for the sample review you posted, it would be considered legitimate (although I doubt any author would post their book for feedback if it were in such poor condition). There have been authors who have gotten criticisms on their books. Their feedback was not flagged, not by me, or the author. The readers were paid out their $10. The author can mark the review 'private' if they wish to do so, in which case you will not see a review posted for that book on Inkspand. It will be solely for the use of the author, to use to improve their work. If you check the site, though, you will see a few reviews with criticisms.

My "garbage" or "drivel" comment was directed at spam reviews, not critical reviews. Authors posting on Inkspand want genuine feedback. If that includes criticism then so be it. Better to find out before publishing than after.

I hope this is a satisfactory response. If not, please do continue to comment and I will attempt to reply promptly.

Regards,

Karim.

Karim said:

What a beta reader is offering is a review of the work, which is structured as a) a rating out of 5 stars, b) a minimum 150 word review, and c) the reader's suggested pricing for the ebook.

Again, I reiterate, the author is not paying for a review on Amazon. They are paying for honest feedback in order to hear what their target market likes about the book, what they don't, and to edit their novel accordingly. This is a similar method used by traditional publishers for their stable of authors. Inkspand is offering the same resources to those authors who do not have access to a traditional publisher's services.

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(bolding mine)

I work for a trade publisher, and what you describe isn't something that we (or any trade publishers I can think of) do. Would you please clarify what you mean by this? What method are you referring to here?

Karim said:

This is a similar method used by traditional publishers for their stable of authors. Inkspand is offering the same resources to those authors who do not have access to a traditional publisher's services.

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Surely you mean "commercial" publishers? Many kinds of publication -- including self-publication -- have long traditions.

But all that aside, no, it isn't. May I be so bold as to ask the extent of your own experience with commercial publishers?

Posting reviews to Amazon is the equivalent of you asking your friends, or your beta reader, to post a review of your book on Amazon.

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A practice which is iffy enough as it is.

At least this way you get to see what a consensus of the target market likes and dislikes to edit your novel accordingly, to hopefully appeal to your target market so that your ratings are favourable.

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Actually, no, you don't. You get to see what one person thought.

As for the sample review you posted, it would be considered legitimate (although I doubt any author would post their book for feedback if it were in such poor condition).

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I think you ought to spend more time trawling through the endless mudflat that is self-publication at Amazon and Smashwords. Books that poor are not rare.

My "garbage" or "drivel" comment was directed at spam reviews, not critical reviews.

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Are spam reviews a big problem? The only places I've seen them are in the sorts of reviews posted by family and friends on Amazon -- or by scam agents sending authors on to scam editors and vice versa.

What I'm wondering is why I should pay $30 per review when I can find critique sites online (including here) for free? And considering what I do as a free beta, that better be one hell of review for the money.

In response...

James D. Macdonald said:

Surely you mean "commercial" publishers? Many kinds of publication -- including self-publication -- have long traditions.

But all that aside, no, it isn't. May I be so bold as to ask the extent of your own experience with commercial publishers?

A practice which is iffy enough as it is.

Actually, no, you don't. You get to see what one person thought.

I think you ought to spend more time trawling through the endless mudflat that is self-publication at Amazon and Smashwords. Books that poor are not rare.


Are spam reviews a big problem? The only places I've seen them are in the sorts of reviews posted by family and friends on Amazon -- or by scam agents sending authors on to scam editors and vice versa.

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Greetings Mr. Macdonald, falconesse, and shadowwalker,

What I meant by publishers providing a similar service is that beta reader services are provided by the publishers, beta readers from the book's target market (genre).

Your consensus will depend on the number of feedbacks requested.

Regarding the sample review you posted - I agree, there are poor books that are published. If you come across one on Inkspand that deserves that harsh review (that you posted) you are welcome to make that criticism. You will still be paid as a reader. I was just trying to be positive in my outlook.

I'm not expecting spam reviews to be a problem. It was only mentioned to indicate that there are checks on the feedback, that the author will not be paying for spam.

Yes, you can get free feedback from family & friends, or you can search for a reader(s) on this forum. What Inkspand offers is a bypass of the search process, a possible time saver. Just post your book and the site will find readers, in your target market, for you. It simplifies the process. And provides feedback from an impartial source, someone who doesn't know you and therefore has no biases in their opinion, the exact type of person that would be posting ratings & reviews on Amazon (if your book were published).

Personally, getting a consensus impartial opinion on my book before publishing, without having to go through the search on forums, or hassle family and friends to read my book (who aren't even my target market), I think, is a valuable service. Relative to the costs of publishing, $30 is not expensive. But I understand, the service will not be for everyone (some members in this thread have made that perfectly clear). Some writers would rather do it themselves. That's fine. I accept that some will find value in my service, and some won't. No hard feelings. Really.

I wish all of you all the best luck in your publishing endeavours.

Sincerely,

Karim.
Founder, Inkspand.

Karim said:

What I meant by publishers providing a similar service is that beta reader services are provided by the publishers, beta readers from the book's target market (genre).

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No, they aren't, and they don't. Really.

A 150 word review from Some Random Dude on the Internet strikes me as something that would appeal to authors who are so desperate for someone -- anyone -- to read their books that they're willing to pay for it.

I'm sure that such writers exist. Probably enough to sustain this business.

That the service has any value whatever for the sort of writer who can create something that a random stranger would read without being paid to do so is what I'm doubting.

I leave aside the ethical concerns with posting reviews paid-for by the author onto Amazon or other review sites.

I wish you well in all your endeavors.

James D. Macdonald said:

No, they aren't, and they don't. Really.

A 150 word review from Some Random Dude on the Internet strikes me as something that would appeal to authors who are so desperate for someone -- anyone -- to read their books that they're willing to pay for it.

I'm sure that such writers exist. Probably enough to sustain this business.

That the service has any value whatever for the sort of writer who can create something that a random stranger would read without being paid to do so is what I'm doubting.

I leave aside the ethical concerns with posting reviews paid-for by the author onto Amazon or other review sites.

I wish you well in all your endeavors.

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What I find useful, some find useless. What I find difficult, some find easy. That's life. To each their own path.

Thank you for your well wishes, Mr. Macdonald.

Sincerely,

Karim.

Addressing the cost of sending funds via Paypal between Canada and the US, the fees tend to be much lower than you state. I know, I have authors I pay via Paypal who are in Canada and I pay the fees due. They run roughly 1 cent per dollar, so roughly a dime on $10.

I looked through the descriptions of the books on your site, and the great majority of the blurbs are poorly written which leaves little hope for the quality of the books themselves. I believe the desperation of the authors--as has been pointed out--is purely why they're seeking 'reviews' on your site.

In addition, 150 words on anything over short story length--we'll say anything over 10,000 words here--is of little value should the book be in need of a thorough edit. (See my note on the blurbs above. Most of the longer blurbs themselves would need 150 words of advice to correct.)

Greetings Michael b,

michael_b said:

Addressing the cost of sending funds via Paypal between Canada and the US, the fees tend to be much lower than you state. I know, I have authors I pay via Paypal who are in Canada and I pay the fees due. They run roughly 1 cent per dollar, so roughly a dime on $10.

I looked through the descriptions of the books on your site, and the great majority of the blurbs are poorly written which leaves little hope for the quality of the books themselves. I believe the desperation of the authors--as has been pointed out--is purely why they're seeking 'reviews' on your site.

In addition, 150 words on anything over short story length--we'll say anything over 10,000 words here--is of little value should the book be in need of a thorough edit. (See my note on the blurbs above. Most of the longer blurbs themselves would need 150 words of advice to correct.)

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You are likely right about the Paypal fees - perhaps 10 to 20 cents - so the reader will receive about $9.90 - $9.80.

This service is not a replacement for a thorough edit, and does not replace a professional editor. As I mentioned in earlier posts, it simply provides a sample of the ratings & reviews if the book were to be published in its current form. This feedback process can be used either early in the novel's creation, while plot and characters are still being worked out, or in the final stages, when the author is ready to publish. Beta reader feedback is useful in either case.

Regards,

Karim.

Karim said:

What I meant by publishers providing a similar service is that beta reader services are provided by the publishers, beta readers from the book's target market (genre).

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Again, as Uncle Jim said, publishers do not do this. The only thing I could think was you were comparing your service to the editing process, but in your response to Michael B, you admit Inkspand's reviews don't replace an editor.

So from where are you getting the impression that publishers provide beta readers?

Greetings Falconesse

falconesse said:

Again, as Uncle Jim said, publishers do not do this. The only thing I could think was you were comparing your service to the editing process, but in your response to Michael B, you admit Inkspand's reviews don't replace an editor.

So from where are you getting the impression that publishers provide beta readers?

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I once had an agent who provided the service for me, and having previously worked in the publishing industry, she told me that was the practice of publishers (had my work progressed that far). That's where I'm getting it from.

If I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.

Imho, though, that doesn't detract from the service Inkspand offers. And yes, I realize the service isn't for everyone. I get the message

Karim.

Sounds like your agent charged a fee up front. Did she?

IN response to Dave

DaveKuzminski said:

Sounds like your agent charged a fee up front. Did she?

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No.

I think the problem, Karim, is you have a different definition of "beta reader" than everyone else here. A "beta reader" is a fellow author who will read the whole book and help coach the author on how to make the book better. That takes a lot more than 150 words from some random stranger. You keep saying the reviews will be from the "target audience," but that simply isn't the case. You don't screen reviewers at all so how will the author know that the reader is their "target?" You also can't get much help in only 150 words. That is barely a decent review, much less a "beta reader."

Karim said:

What I meant by publishers providing a similar service is that beta reader services are provided by the publishers, beta readers from the book's target market (genre).

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Karim said:

I once had an agent who provided the service for me, and having previously worked in the publishing industry, she told me that was the practice of publishers (had my work progressed that far). That's where I'm getting it from.

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Neither agents nor publishers send books out to beta-readers to test a book's potential market.

Agents do, however, use readers who write reports on submissions, and advise the agents concerned on a book's commercial potential. This is not at all the same as writing a 150-word review.

A 150-word commentary on a novel is NOT a beta review. It just isn't. Most professional book reviews are around 150 words and can be longer. A beta review, also known as critique, is by nature much more thorough than a book review.

I'm in an online critique group, and we typically each write between 1,000 and 2,000 words of critique per submission, and the typical submission is two to three chapters. My last crit was shorter than usual for me, and it was 650 words; my paragraph about the one thing about which I was most concerned was 212 words, while two other paragraphs were around 145 words each.

So, considering that writers can get thousands and thousands of critique words for free from experienced readers and writers who know about writing stories and books, can you explain how paying $30 for a mere 150-word review from Some Random Reader is good value for money?

Also, I usually spend three to four hours, minimum, reading and writing comments on a two- to three-chapter submission. Can you explain how paying someone $10 for several hours' of work (something that is substantially lower than minimum wage) critiquing an entire novel is good value for money?

Based on my own personal experience of critiquing fiction over the course of more than three decades, what I see here is that Inkspand is exploiting desperate writers who don't know that this isn't how the publishing industry works and who don't know how to find good critters on their own, and paying a pittance to readers who probably don't know a good critique from a hole in the ground. The only one getting any value from this service is Inkspand -- $20 per 'review' for doing nothing more than operating a website.

When I beta for people I make comments throughout the ms using Track Changes; some of those comments are very long. When I send the ms back I write a long email about my general impressions of the story, what I think works and doesn't, and what I think could be added or removed. This includes detailed thoughts on character, pacing, and story flow.

It can take me a couple of weeks to do a proper read; granted it's probably about twelve-fifteen hours of work spread out whenever I have the chance, but it's still a long time and a lot of work.

This sounds to me much more like the equivalent of a marketing focus group - get a bunch of randoms who fit the demographic to give you their impressions of a product before it's launched - than actual beta reading.

Perhaps if the terminology were revised this might clear up some of the confusion. Although not the points around model and review re-posting.