Cops defend use of pepper spray on 8-year-old

Magdalen said:

IMO, this has been one of the better threads in recent months.

And all along I've been thinkin' of this one little kid (lil' darlin' as SP says) and still it is a shocking method of human interaction to me.

But then I started thinking, what if there were 50 kids like this in a group of hundreds, eventually isolated as a group? (8-yr olds all holding jagged pieces of molding, mind you), wouldn't pepper spraying the whole bunch seem almost barbaric??

By then I guess it wouldn't be a matter of effective and humane, it would most likely be water blasts or smoke bombs, I guess.

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Absofrigginlutely, this was a shocking bit of human interaction. That's the point, isn't it?

Let's forget the police part for a moment.

You hear that in a local school, some one's little ray of sunshine went all super-nova. Throwing things, threatening to kill students and teachers, literally going after them to the point where the teachers had to remove the other students for safety and were concerned with their own saftey to hide as well. He created a weapon with the intention on hurting or even killing someone.

Isn't that shocking behavior coming from an 8 year old?

Then the mother arrives on the scene and her first words weren't "Oh my Lord, my son did that?" (He never acts out anywhere else my ass!)

Pepper spraying a kid should be shocking. It shouldn't be an everyday occurrence. But I'm not going to give these cops any grief over this.

I think they should taser the kid in a school assembly. It would be a great deterrent to other would-be psychotic students who are thinking about weaponizing a piece of moulding and attacking a classroom of innocent kids. Then they should taser the mom at the next PTA meeting (not that she probably goes to those) as a warning to other crappy parents.

Crafty said:

I think they should taser the kid in a school assembly. It would be a great deterrent to other would-be psychotic students who are thinking about weaponizing a piece of moulding and attacking a classroom of innocent kids. Then they should taser the mom at the next PTA meeting (not that she probably goes to those) as a warning to other crappy parents.

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I sense ....... sarcasm. I'm not sure why.

LOL - actually, I think it would be a great deterrent. And it would make me happy to watch it, but I don't really want that to happen. Here's why: I don't have kids yet, and if I'm a crappy mom and my kid tries to hurt his teachers and classmates, I don't want to be held responsible.

sulong said:

My thoughts have been along the lines of "how has this boy been able to slip through the cracks to this point?"

Children are dependent on adults. A child this age is not yet ready to take care of themselves. Yet being surounded by adults, from family to community, it seems like not one of these adults shown any compassion for the boy to notice he was having a tough time.

Blaming parents for inappropriate behavior is all well and good, but at what point dose community step in and offer help?

It's not the teachers job, it's not the neighbors job, not the cops job, the parents are ill-equipped.
Are these kids disposable? Are they worth the trouble to try and save? If an attempt is to be made to save, at what point of development, and by who?(whom?).

I can understand the cops being called once. But 3 times sends a terrible message. A message we have failed this boy.

The story of this 8 year old boy, is a story of our society, one in which we all play a roll. If only we were not collectively frightened of our own neighbors, one of us ( it ought to be a stampede of us) might step forward to attempt to save this boy from becoming he who we are afraid of.

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I understand the whole it takes a village mentality, but really it starts at home. The parents have to do their part, and from what little I've seen, this mother isn't. I'm sure the father isn't either as he's flown the coop. Outsiders can only do so much. There's no shame in the mom asking for help, but until she does, what can be done?

It's all a balancing act. You want society to have to share some of the blame, but they can't raise someone else's kid for them. Not unless they're going to come in and take over.

How do you define society stepping forward?

sulong said:

My thoughts have been along the lines of "how has this boy been able to slip through the cracks to this point?" ... Yet being surounded by adults, from family to community, it seems like not one of these adults shown any compassion for the boy to notice he was having a tough time.

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I don't think he has necessarily slipped through the cracks. His grandfather was interviewed and expresses significant concern for the child. The grandparent states he has been filling in for the boy's father, a soldier in Afghanistan.

"Something traumatic has happened that's caused the problems," he said, "and I can't really go into it right now. It's confidential and under investigation."

"That's not excusing his behavior. But that's a reason why he acts out," he said.

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The grandparents have assumed care for the boy on most weekends and holidays, according to the article above. It seems that he has been evaluated by a physician and is under ongoing care. According to the mother, there was a trial on unspecified medication for a time, but it was not helpful and was discontinued.

He sounds like a kid who may be far in over his head.

The only adult involved whose actions I seriously question at this point -- and this includes the police officers -- is his mother. Why the heck is this child going on the morning talk show circuit? His (and her) last name was initially not revealed in news reports, and the grandfather asked that his last name not be used. But with the child's unobscured face and voice all over NBC and ABC morning shows, there is no maintainance of his privacy in expectation that when he is an adult, he may well not want to have this incident as the primary googleable event in his life.

Bad choice, there. IMO.

This kid is obviously possessed by a demon or two. Let's bring in an exorcist! Any excorcist/writers posting here? Yoo hoo!!! We've got work for you!

IMHO

Pepper spray. Hell ya! He may think twice before threatening anyone again. Hopefully, he will see that there is a consequence for every action.

There should be zero tolerance in schools for kids like this. I don't care what his family background is. School is supposed to be a place where children feel safe. The wee crazy got peppered because he was threatening that safety.

If this was strike three on this child, the responsibility falls squarely on the parents. It is not the schools job to look after the child with the issues. They are responsible for everyone's safety. I say bravo!

If the kid has issues, get him into a place that deals with that, or kick him out. Why did the school not call the mother when this shit went down? Why was the kid not suspended after the second incident. His anger issues are not societies responsibility, it's his parents.

This certainly sends a message. The kid threatens someone with a weapon and people are aghast that he gets peppered. Should you talk him down and then give him a lolly pop?
I have an 8 year old, with enough anger and a weapon, any child could be dangerous.
If this kid is like this at 8, what will he be like at 16? Anger issues don't just go away.

sulong said:

Enough of "it's not my kid, not my responsibility."

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I'm a mom, and I'm a big softy when it comes to kids in general. If I see a kid lost in a department store, I stay with them and help them find their mom. If I see a kid fall on the playground, I help them up and, if I have one, offer a band-aid (band-aids make it all better, even when there's no mark.) If I see a kid stuck somewhere--like the top of a slide--and no adult coming to the rescue, I go to the rescue.

And you know what? I get everything from ugly looks to outright threats from the parents. A curt "Thank you," followed by an abrupt dismissal is one of the kinder reactions I tend to get from the parents. I suppose they figure that I'm going to be judgmental about them, or that I'm overstepping my bounds, or...I don't know, really. But the truth is, parents can be damned hostile to other adults intervening with their children.

At the park not last Saturday but the one before, my son got hit by another child with a hard plastic toy. It left an immediate red and blue spot on his shoulder and made him cry--not an easy thing to do with my kid. No other adults saw the interaction, so I went over, got the child's attention (without touching him) and said, "Did you hit my son?" He didn't answer, so I just said, "Hitting is not nice, and it's not okay. We don't hit." The kid looked terrified, so I was keeping my voice firm but not angry. Then his mother came over. She demanded to know what was going on, so I told her. She jerked her son around by the arm, threatening to hit him if he'd hit my son. He claimed that he hadn't, and my son, seeing the display before him, said, "It wasn't his fault!"

That made the mother turn on me. "See?" she said, talking to me in the same threatening manner as to her child. "Now he says it wasn't him. Maybe you need to back off a bit." Her body language was threatening. She'd let go of her kid's arm and rounded on me. I know how to handle myself, but the last thing I wanted was an ugly fist fight on a playground full of small children. I shook my head in disgust, muttered a "sorry," and walked away.

This is WAY too common.

It is NOT easy to intervene with a stranger's child, not even in a minor, passing way...not unless the parents specifically ask you to. You might get away with it if you're the child's teacher, coach, ect. But the real problem kids tend to have real problem parents, and those parents tend to see teachers and everyone else as the enemy, too.

Possessed by demons? Deadbeat dad out of the picture? An evil little boy?

Come on. He's an f'ed up kid. But more than that, he's a human being whose experiences and environmental conditions are shaping and molding his decision-making. Just. Like. All. Of. Us. We as adults have the luxury of creating our own environments; little shitbag does not.

Again, I don't feel sorry for him, but I'm certainly willing to understand what leads to his disturbing behavior. Black and white/cut and dry mentalities are great, so long as every last one of us has 'em. Since we do not, perhaps we should take more care in our instant judgment about situations we see, hear, and read about. We probably shouldn't call anything our media delivers us "Facts" either. Any sales-driven, attention-seeking medium has an agenda. Always.

Meh. I could go on and on, but I know I'm off-point. I just found it interesting how many assumed the father was a deadbeat, when in fact he's in Afghanistan. Another duped citizen perhaps, but wouldn't classify him a deadbeat by any means.

Ramble on.

Lyx

ETA: Well, I just scanned back through the thread and apparently no one said Dad was a deadbeat. In fact, it wasn't really even implied, just that he's out of the picture. See, even I jump to judgment and uninformed conclusions.

Lyxdeslic said:

Possessed by demons? Come on. He's an f'ed up kid.

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What no retraction on your possessed by demons stance? Reread again, Lyx.

Hit the little brat upside the head with your billy club for good measure! Maybe that will knock some sense into him.