The "T" Party.

Ardent Kat

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I have a question: I'm writing about my first sexual experience with a guy. Now, please don't get upset, but she was TG. At the time, to me, it was sex with a guy... I don't want to come across as what Mac called a "Heteronormative Dope" I also don't want to offend the TG community.

Did your friend identify as a transwoman at the time you two had your encounter? If so, then she should always be "she" or yes, you'll probably come across as a 'heteronormative dope' if you call this "sex with a guy."
 

Wayne K

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That I'm not worried about. The story explains it. I'm more interested in the character. I want to know if there are any books I can read to get more into her head.
 

sunandshadow

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I've seen some stories where the setup is a supposedly straight male falls for a trans woman and the pronouns used within his head gradually change from he to she over the course of the story. In the middle part it's situational - she in romantic moments and when she is dressed, he in palling around moments and when he is dressed in male clothing. It worked well in those stories, I like the progression.
 

Diana Hignutt

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That I'm not worried about. The story explains it. I'm more interested in the character. I want to know if there are any books I can read to get more into her head.

There are lots of memoirs of trans folk. The only one I ever read was Christine Jorgensen's. I also read articles in Playboy about Wendy Carlos and Tula.

I can recommend the website of the International Foundation for Gender Education: www.ifge.org
 

Wayne K

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Thank you Diana. I could have googled it, but I wanted to get the suggestion from an AWer.

This book is told as I experienced the real world after prison. In ch 2 I describe her as a drag queen because that's what I thought at the time. In ch 4 she shows me that she had the surgery. By chapter six I'm calling her 'she' and defending her as a woman

What I don't want to do is offend someone with an innocent mistake

I don't mind offending someone with bad language or something, but I'll be fucked if I offend someone because of who they are. Not when I can avoid it with some time and research.

ETA: the time (1967) is closer to the mindset I want too. Thank you
 
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Diana Hignutt

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Wayne, I think that's the right way...the evolution of your opinion of her sounds like perfect way to handle it. Nowadays, the girls start earlier generally, and the surgery techniques are way better than in the sixties, so the girls end up being hard to spot as not being gg (genetic girls).

If you have any specific questions along the way, I and others are here to help...
 

Diana Hignutt

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A couple of things I was thinking about:

1) Facial Hair Removal: I did traditional electrolysis, which took too long, and was too expensive. I tried Laser, and found that to be only temporary. Best results: Lucy Peters International - it's a specially patented electrolysis technique - much quicker, and works out way cheaper in the end. If you can find a Lucy Peters near you--go for it. I do know people who swear by Laser though.

2) Make-up: Honestly, I almost never wear make-up anymore. I'm kinda a tomboy. But, to hide that facial hair, and get in the knack of being feminine, you're going to want to learn how to do your make-up. If you have any sort of five o'clock shadow you'll want beard cover which is an undercoat of make-up to hide your facial hear. Works great. That you'll have to get online from a tg supply house. Otherwise. I had my wife to teach me, but before I went on national tv the first time, I went to the Lancome counter at Macy's and they hooked me up with the perfect styles, types, and colors for me. I looked fabulous on the O'Reilly Factor as a result. The girls at the make-up counter will be delighted to help you. Note: Yes, I will wear make-up for tv, photo shoots, and public appearances, or the odd night on the town.

This has been more helpful hints for our new t-girls. Best.
 

Mara

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Laser depends on your skin and hair type. Really dark hair and really pale skin is best, but there can be other things that affect it as well. It takes a lot of treatments, though, even if you're a good candidate. (The package I got is 3 treatments over 3 months, then two treatments a month for 9 more months.)

Laser hair removal tends to be permanent with the right hair type, but generally can't get every hair. (Some will get bleached by the laser and be hard to target.) Electrolysis might be needed for the last few, if they're noticeable.

Also, hair regrowth can be possible, but it's much less likely with testosterone blockers.

If you've got very light hair or very dark skin, laser probably is a bad idea.

Oh, and if anyone considers laser, make sure you don't get ripped off. My package cost about $700 (slight discount special) and covered 21 sessions over the course of a year. I've heard of people being charged hundreds of dollars per session, or being sold packages for only 5 sessions (which is rarely enough.)
 

semilargeintestine

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A couple of things I was thinking about:

1) Facial Hair Removal: I did traditional electrolysis, which took too long, and was too expensive. I tried Laser, and found that to be only temporary. Best results: Lucy Peters International - it's a specially patented electrolysis technique - much quicker, and works out way cheaper in the end. If you can find a Lucy Peters near you--go for it. I do know people who swear by Laser though.

There is a Lucy Peters right near me. That makes me happy. I tried regular electrolysis, and the parts they did still haven't grown back (it's been over a month). Traditional electrolysis takes so long, so I'm glad there's a system that is quicker.

2) Make-up: Honestly, I almost never wear make-up anymore. I'm kinda a tomboy. But, to hide that facial hair, and get in the knack of being feminine, you're going to want to learn how to do your make-up. If you have any sort of five o'clock shadow you'll want beard cover which is an undercoat of make-up to hide your facial hear. Works great. That you'll have to get online from a tg supply house. Otherwise. I had my wife to teach me, but before I went on national tv the first time, I went to the Lancome counter at Macy's and they hooked me up with the perfect styles, types, and colors for me. I looked fabulous on the O'Reilly Factor as a result. The girls at the make-up counter will be delighted to help you. Note: Yes, I will wear make-up for tv, photo shoots, and public appearances, or the odd night on the town.

I can't wait to not have to wear so much damn makeup all the time. I've gotten the hang of it so most people think I'm wearing very little to no makeup, but it's still a bunch of concealer and powder. Not having to do all that will be awesome. :)
 

mscelina

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IMO, Dermablend is the best for overall coverage. I was so impressed by the coverage drag queens gots from Dermablend that I started using it instead of stage makeup. Much better for your skin too.
 

semilargeintestine

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Whoa, I've tried it the way you described a few times and it just now actually sorta worked!

Maybe I'll give Melanie's videos a shot. :)

I didn't use videos or anything for my voice. I just went into falsetto and lowered the pitch down until I got to something close to my original voice but more feminine. Worked like a charm, and I've never been pegged on the phone.
 

Diana Hignutt

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There is a Lucy Peters right near me. That makes me happy. I tried regular electrolysis, and the parts they did still haven't grown back (it's been over a month). Traditional electrolysis takes so long, so I'm glad there's a system that is quicker.
. :)

It might seem more expensive at first, but they are fast and furious and a one hour appointment there is like four hours somewhere else. Happy to help.
 

Caitlin Black

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Just had a T question or two.

First off - as a born male who identifies as lesbian, what would the technical label for me be? (Not that I'm really into labels, but it might make things easier when talking about this side of my life...) Pre-Op Transwoman?

Secondly - you've been discussing voice therapy. Has anyone had any experience with singing voice therapy? Like, I sound my most feminine when I sing a certain way. Normally I have a very bassy voice, which drives me nuts, but when I sing I sound more in the gray area between genders. Would you consider a singing coach as someone who could help you sound more feminine? Would you be able to sound feminine with your speech as well as with your singing?

I'm just curious about this stuff. I'm in no position to start hormone therapy (no money, in the trans-closet with my family, live with family) or even consider an operation. But I just thought I'd open a dialogue. Recently I've been as miserable as ever with my born gender, and I think talking about it with people who understand would really help me.

Hence my questions.

:)
 

Mara

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Just had a T question or two.

First off - as a born male who identifies as lesbian, what would the technical label for me be? (Not that I'm really into labels, but it might make things easier when talking about this side of my life...) Pre-Op Transwoman?

You're the only one who can define yourself, but if you want my input, I'd say you sound like a trans woman. (No need to specify pre-op. Most trans people are trying to get away from the pre-op/post-op terminology when it comes to identity, for various reasons that aren't especially important to your question, so I won't get into them.)

If you need clarity, though, you might want to say "pre-transition" if you feel like haven't started transition at all, or "pre-hormones" if you've started transition but not started hormones. But that's all up to you. And "transition" is a very subjective term. I consider mine to have started when I first came out as trans online and started putting "Female" for my online gender status.

Secondly - you've been discussing voice therapy. Has anyone had any experience with singing voice therapy? Like, I sound my most feminine when I sing a certain way. Normally I have a very bassy voice, which drives me nuts, but when I sing I sound more in the gray area between genders. Would you consider a singing coach as someone who could help you sound more feminine? Would you be able to sound feminine with your speech as well as with your singing?

I don't have any personal experience, but I know there are professional singers who transitioned and were good singers before and after.

I've noticed that singing helps my speech sound more feminine, but it might just be my imagination. Probably couldn't hurt, though.

One thing, though. Speech therapists also help you work on accent and inflection, which can be helpful. In addition to physical development of vocal cords, men and women are often socialized to speak differently. The specific language and location might determine how drastic this is, though. (But really, you probably don't need a speech therapist to figure that out. It's just an added bonus a speech therapist has over a singing coach for transitioning.)

I'm just curious about this stuff. I'm in no position to start hormone therapy (no money, in the trans-closet with my family, live with family) or even consider an operation. But I just thought I'd open a dialogue. Recently I've been as miserable as ever with my born gender, and I think talking about it with people who understand would really help me.

Hence my questions.

:)

Understood. No money sucks, being in the closet sucks too. There's a lot of thinking involved, and major decisions.

Good luck!

(Oh, one thing that might help. Having absolutely no money is still a problem, but Hormone Replacement Therapy is actually pretty cheap. I'm paying about $14 a month, out of pocket, with no insurance or special discounts. Therapy was $180 for all sessions combined, doctors appointments and blood test were about $250-$300 and I'll have more appointments at about $100 each, but only every few months and eventually more rarely. No insurance for any of this, but the therapist gave me a really low rate because he's pro-trans, and the doctor charged me less for my initial visit because I had to pay out of pocket.)

Just throwing out that bit of information because some people have this idea that it's ultra-expensive or something. It's actually pretty cheap, especially as far as potentially life-saving medical treatment goes.
 
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Caitlin Black

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Hmm, I didn't know how much the hormones might cost, but I have read (a few years back) that the only hospital in Australia that performs sex changes (somewhere in Victoria, which is next door to my state, though still about 6 hours drive away) - they charge $50,000 for the actual operation.

That's really what's making me think about the money situation. I'm sure I could afford the rest of all this if I tried hard enough (and stopped drinking so many expensive lattes... :p) - not sure if I can claim it on insurance because it's technically an elective treatment... - but $50k which doesn't include shaving the Adam's apple or augmenting the breasts... yeah, I SO can't afford that.

I'd also like to be self-sufficient (ie. my own house and a job or perhaps a regular writing income...) before I out myself to my family, as I don't know how they'd react, and I might be thrown out of mum's house if I didn't already have a place to stay...

I'd also prefer not to do anything about this whole mess until after my grandparents are dead. I know it sounds morbid, but I KNOW they wouldn't understand, and I actually like them, so I don't want to throw this spanner in the works. They're both over 80, and nobody in my family has ever lived much past 90... and by the time they're 90, hopefully I'll have the money to start this process... but yeah, if they're still alive, I'm staying in the trans-closet.

:)
 

semilargeintestine

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Hmm, I didn't know how much the hormones might cost, but I have read (a few years back) that the only hospital in Australia that performs sex changes (somewhere in Victoria, which is next door to my state, though still about 6 hours drive away) - they charge $50,000 for the actual operation.

You don't have to have SRS in your home country. In fact, you don't have to have it at all. Many trans women never get the surgery and are still fully transitioned. Transitioning has less to do with your genitalia than it does your emotional state and your living full time as a woman. Having a vagina does nothing to help your passability (except to sexual partners), and it doesn't define you as a woman.

You can get SRS for less than half that price in Canada, parts of the US, and Thailand. Most of the people I know who've had it went to Canada, and they're very pleased. I have a friend who got it for around $12 000 there.

As far as labels go, if you were born genetically male and identify as a woman, you're a trans woman, which is a wonderfully special kind of woman to be. :) There's no need to specify pre- or post-op because as I said before, focusing on the genitalia reduces us to what is inside our panties.

That's really what's making me think about the money situation. I'm sure I could afford the rest of all this if I tried hard enough (and stopped drinking so many expensive lattes... :p) - not sure if I can claim it on insurance because it's technically an elective treatment... - but $50k which doesn't include shaving the Adam's apple or augmenting the breasts... yeah, I SO can't afford that.

I would suggest not getting breast augmentation until you've been on hormones for a few years. It takes a little while to grow them, but almost everyone I know has developed a B-cup within a year. Implants usually look and feel fake (some can look good, but it is really hard to get a size proportional enough to not look fake), require replacement down the line, and can cause problems as your breasts continue to develop.

As far as the tracheal shave goes, I've seen quotes for that in the US for as little as $5 000. Also, remember that there are ways to either hide your Adam's apple or make it look smaller. Depending on how prominent it is, you may not need to do anything. Lots of cis girls have slightly more prominent Adam's apples, so if you draw the focus to other things, it may not be an issue. I have a pretty substantial one, and I used to wear a pretty uncomfortable choker to hide it. I didn't wear it one day because it was giving me a rash, and no one noticed--in fact, I look better without it.

I'd also like to be self-sufficient (ie. my own house and a job or perhaps a regular writing income...) before I out myself to my family, as I don't know how they'd react, and I might be thrown out of mum's house if I didn't already have a place to stay...

I'd also prefer not to do anything about this whole mess until after my grandparents are dead. I know it sounds morbid, but I KNOW they wouldn't understand, and I actually like them, so I don't want to throw this spanner in the works. They're both over 80, and nobody in my family has ever lived much past 90... and by the time they're 90, hopefully I'll have the money to start this process... but yeah, if they're still alive, I'm staying in the trans-closet.

:)

Sounds good, but you don't have to go full time immediately. You can start by just dressing when you go out or on the weekends or at times when your parents aren't around. When I first came out to friends, it was because I couldn't stand living that lie all the time anymore. So it was a relief to be able to be myself even two days a week. I got outed and had to leave, but it was my own fault (I was having stuff sent to the house without any instruction to not label it when I should have had it sent to a friend's house). It definitely helps to be self sufficient.

As far as voice therapy goes, being a singer is a huge advantage. Being able to control your pitch and resonance is what it's all about. I'm a singer too, and that's how I got my new voice. I got pegged on the phone for the first time on Friday, but I was sick and sounded terrible, and I passed with the next person I talked to, not five minutes later.

Essentially, I just went into a high falsetto and brought the pitch down to something close to my normal voice, but slightly higher (somewhere around an A or a Bb). Then, I just spoke that way incessantly for about a week, and it just became my voice. I have to force myself to speak the way I used to, and I can't quite do it. It actually strains my throat.

Keep singing, because it will take you a while to adapt to singing with your new voice. You'll get there, but it takes a little time.
 

kuwisdelu

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I wish I still had those pictures of me made up as a girl.

Not that I identify as trans. I just think I made a pretty girl. :)
 

Bookewyrme

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That makes me wonder...is there such a thing as "trans curious" or something? Similar to the idea of "bi-curious women" where you don't really need to transition, because you're comfortable enough in your own sex, but like to play around at being another gender occasionally?
 

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That makes me wonder...is there such a thing as "trans curious" or something? Similar to the idea of "bi-curious women" where you don't really need to transition, because you're comfortable enough in your own sex, but like to play around at being another gender occasionally?

Keep in mind that in some queer communities, particularly lesbian communities, bi-curious is seen as, well, exploitative tourism. It's not meant that way, but it is frequently perceived that way. It sometimes has some unfortunate connotations.

It's perhaps better to use a different way of expressing one's state of being, like questioning.
 

Mara

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That makes me wonder...is there such a thing as "trans curious" or something? Similar to the idea of "bi-curious women" where you don't really need to transition, because you're comfortable enough in your own sex, but like to play around at being another gender occasionally?

That's the majority of the transgender categories that aren't transsexual, actually. (The three big categories of "transgender" are transsexual, genderqueer, and crossdressers.)

EDIT: And to piggyback on what Medievalist said, much like many lesbians are wary of "bi-curious" people, there are some vaguely similar issues among transgender people. Never seen anyone with a problem with genderqueer people, but there's often animosity between trans women and male crossdressers for various reasons. Much like the way bad experiences with exploitative straight girls cause some lesbians to become viciously biphobic, I think experiences with a few particularly obnoxious crossdressers can sometimes make trans women rather hostile to all crossdressers. I don't know if the issue is common for trans guys, though.
 
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Caitlin Black

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I read about the SRS options in Thailand or Indonesia or somewhere and it was the cheapest option I could find at $10k (a few years back), but I wasn't sure how safe it would be.

Canada might be an option. I wouldn't mind living in Canada for a while if I ever had the money for such. I should look into that.
 

Shadow Dragon

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I read about the SRS options in Thailand or Indonesia or somewhere and it was the cheapest option I could find at $10k (a few years back), but I wasn't sure how safe it would be.
Thailand is generally one of the safest places to get it done. It's the sex change capital of the world, so many of their doctors are very experienced in the precedure. Though just like with any other place, you should check the history of any doctor you're considering going to.
 

Caitlin Black

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Thailand is generally one of the safest places to get it done. It's the sex change capital of the world, so many of their doctors are very experienced in the precedure. Though just like with any other place, you should check the history of any doctor you're considering going to.

Good to know. :)