Racism An honest question.

Gretad08 · Jul 30, 2009

JoNightshade said:
And I think the biggest thing we need to do is GIVE EACH OTHER A FRICKIN BREAK. If we just all stopped being so paranoid about the whole thing and gave each other the benefit of the doubt, I think we could all relax enough to make an actual change.

You've just summed up how I feel about the situation when I didn't quite know how to say it.

GIVE EACH OTHER A FRICKIN BREAK! Along with the benefit of the doubt. Then the real racists would stand out more clearly and we wouldn't constantly be searching for either direct or indirect racism, thus inaccurately labeling far too many.

Robert Toy · Jul 30, 2009

What matters is how you respond to the information your brain gives you.

Ding, ding...you win

It's not what you think, it's how you react.

Denying you don't harbor "those" thoughts is dishonest

backslashbaby · Jul 30, 2009

I don't harbor racist thoughts, though.

But my background, what I hated, what I learned, all just leaned toward how much I hated any racism, and most classicism, etc.

I was more likely to say "Oooh, Black Person! How novel! I know I like you!" as my mistake back in the day

Robert Toy · Jul 30, 2009

backslashbaby said:
I don't harbor racist thoughts, though.

But my background, what I hated, what I learned, all just leaned toward how much I hated any racism, and most classicism, etc.

I was more likely to say "Oooh, Black Person! How novel! I know I like you!" as my mistake back in the day

my bold

I trust you don't harbor racist thoughts.

Racial bias is different and is not restricted to white, black, yellow, etc., all races have racial bias.

Bartholomew · Jul 30, 2009

Robert Toy said:
I am trying to find the correct word that denotes the natural uneasiness, fear that all people feel in the presence of an unknown person(s) of another race or culture.

Racial Tension; Racial Bias. Both work.

Racial Dukkha. Let's use that.

Diana Hignutt · Jul 30, 2009

Prozyan said:
The greatest apprehension I have regarding race is saying or doing something that somehow gets me labeled a racist.

You racist!

Diana Hignutt · Jul 30, 2009

So awareness of innate bias?

I've got that. I've got tons of deep, learned (rightly or wrongly) biases at work all the time. We all do. I think my first bias is class. I wish it wasn't. Not that I wish it were race, of course. I wish my first bias was against people who don't know enough history. Or who don't like music. Or people who don't like to read. Yeah, those Effers...

But, ya can't pick that kind of stuff. It is simply human.

backslashbaby · Jul 30, 2009

Robert Toy said:
my bold

I trust you don't harbor racist thoughts.

Racial bias is different and is not restricted to white, black, yellow, etc., all races have racial bias.

Oooo, true. Racial bias.

I think that everyone starts with racial bias. But I honestly don't believe that everyone has it later, depending on how much attention the subject got throughout their lives.

If someone has never had the opportunity to be good friends with folks of other races, for instance, the 'knowns' vs 'unknowns' will be quite different.

Deleted member 42 · Jul 30, 2009

Robert Toy said:
Racial bias is different and is not restricted to white, black, yellow, etc., all races have racial bias.

Bias is, unfortunately, all too human, and yeah, I think we all have racial, ethnic, class, etc. bias.

Racial bias is probably the one that's easiest to spot in ourselves, but even it is pernicious.

It can be as simple as realizing we're using a racial identifier when it has no bearing on the situation or context.

"I always walk my dog on weekdays, my Chinese friend Sue walks my dog on Sundays, and I walk Sue's dog on Saturdays."

There's nothing there that is at all related to Sue's ethnicity, but we often unconsciously include the primary identifier we have for a person in odd ways.

And when I notice it, I always sort of stop and double-check what I'm doing, and why. I don't want to pigeon hole people like that.

I don't want people thinking of me as "My dyslexic friend Lisa," for instance. It's just the way I was born. I'd rather, if they need a qualifier (and mostly we don't) they use something that reflects on all of me, and how I am.

Robert Toy · Jul 30, 2009

Medievalist said:
Bias is, unfortunately, all too human, and yeah, I think we all have racial, ethnic, class, etc. bias.

Racial bias is probably the one that's easiest to spot in ourselves, but even it is pernicious.

It can be as simple as realizing we're using a racial identifier when it has no bearing on the situation or context.

"I always walk my dog on weekdays, my Chinese friend Sue walks my dog on Sundays, and I walk Sue's dog on Saturdays."

There's nothing there that is at all related to Sue's ethnicity, but we often unconsciously include the primary identifier we have for a person in odd ways.

And when I notice it, I always sort of stop and double-check what I'm doing, and why. I don't want to pigeon hole people like that.

I don't want people thinking of me as "My dyslexic friend Lisa," for instance. It's just the way I was born. I'd rather, if they need a qualifier (and mostly we don't" they use something that reflects on all of me, and how I am.

would be relevant if your dog is a Shih Tzu?

William Haskins · Jul 30, 2009

or if she eats the dog.

Williebee · Jul 30, 2009

Originally Posted by Prozyan
The greatest apprehension I have regarding race is saying or doing something that somehow gets me labeled a racist.

William Haskins said:
aside from overt and demonstrable racism, this is the crux of the problem.

Very much agreed.

oh, yeah... Hi, Robert!

even if you lived there for 15 years you still weren't part of the town.

That's the world I'm in now. At least every other month, in some conversation I hear, "Oh that's right. You're not from here."

Robert Toy · Jul 30, 2009

William Haskins said:
or if she eats the dog.

I know we all look alike, but it’s the Koreans…NOT Chinese that favor dogs.

Deleted member 42 · Jul 30, 2009

Robert Toy said:
would be relevant if your dog is a Shih Tzu?

If said canine can't cope with sheep, I ain't inerested.

I'd likely try to shear the critter.

nighttimer · Jul 30, 2009

Robert Toy said:
I am trying to find the correct word that denotes the natural uneasiness, fear that all people feel in the presence of an unknown person(s) of another race or culture.

There has to be something between Bigotry (intolerance), Racism (superiority/ discrimination) and Racial Bias that is not some politically correct nonsense.

Or, are there degrees of bigotry, racism and bias, i.e. can someone have bigoted, racist or biased feelings without being a screaming fanatic (KKK, Nazis, Black Panther, etc.)?

My reason for asking, IMHO in order to genuinely address racial tension, one has to be able to admit and discuss that they indeed have racial biases without being called bigots or racist.

Am I racially biased? Yes I am, but I am not a bigot or racist.

Any ideas?

Good topic.

Being a little bit racist is like being a little bit pregnant. Either you're all in or you're all out.

There is a difference between bias, prejudice and racism. Racism is the worst, prejudice following and bias the mildest of the three. Within these three are degrees.

Some folks straddle lines and eventually go from being passively biased to actively racist like the guy who shot up the Holocaust museum.

Are we biased or do we simply have a preference for one group of people than another? I travel in circles with more Blacks than Whites, more straights than gays and more women (ha-ha. headfake) than men.

That's not just a preference though. It's just how it shakes out. It's complicated and there's no easy answer.

Robert Toy · Jul 30, 2009

Know what I would really, really be interested in doing?

Find, oh say, 5 or 6 or more people who can openly admit they harbor racial biases, and have a honest discussion without calling each other a racist or bigot.

The idea is not to change each other’s mind but to listen and then explain why we each feel the way we do. We probably will never agree on some points, but it will give us a better understanding as to why we think/feel differently.

I hate walking on egg shells and God knows I am sooo not PC.

Just a thought

William Haskins · Jul 30, 2009

Robert Toy said:
I know we all look alike, but it’s the Koreans…NOT Chinese that favor dogs.

i never said "you all look alike" but there is quite a bit of documented evidence of consumption of dog meat in china.

JoNightshade · Jul 30, 2009

Robert Toy said:
I know we all look alike, but it’s the Koreans…NOT Chinese that favor dogs.

Really? Then what were all those dog restaurants I saw in China doing there?

William Haskins · Jul 30, 2009

Robert Toy said:
I hate walking on egg shells and God knows I am sooo not PC.

so don't walk on eggshells.

the obsession with what others think of us is what leads us to the sort of polite dishonesty that is the hallmark of modern society.

William Haskins · Jul 30, 2009

JoNightshade said:
Really? Then what were all those dog restaurants I saw in China doing there?

serving koreans.

Robert Toy · Jul 30, 2009

William Haskins said:
i never said "you all look alike" but there is quite a bit of documented evidence of consumption of dog meat in china.

JoNightshade said:
Really? Then what were all those dog restaurants I saw in China doing there?

Korean immigrants

William Haskins · Jul 30, 2009

goddamn immigrants.

Robert Toy · Jul 30, 2009

you betcha

Deleted member 42 · Jul 30, 2009

William Haskins said:
goddamn immigrants.

Exactly.

Now when MY ancestors crossed the land-bridge . . .

Oh.

Wait.

Umm.

Look! It's a Shih-tzu!

The thing is, technically, genetically, Africa is the start of the species.

It looks more and more that languages developed in multiple places, that there are several "Adam and Eve" languages, rather than one.

William Haskins · Jul 30, 2009

finally. i'm starving.

Racism An honest question.

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