General anime discussion thread

Camilla Delvalle

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That's it! I'm done with Google. Today I was looking for an anime episode, but they had blocked the good links from the search. I had to use another search engine and I found lots of links.

Also earlier today when I was researching for a book, Google just gave me a lot of hotel links. Probably the hotels had payed to be on top of the search.

Google didn't give me what I wanted to see but what they wanted to show me, so I'm using another search engine from now on.
 

kuwisdelu

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Please, Ryutaro Nakamura, get better soon! I really need some new ABe characters, and I've been waiting on Despera for two years now. I have faith in you guys. Come on. Please?
 

Dawnstorm

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That's wonderful! Though the thing I said was a quote from Death Note. Maybe you knew that.

I didn't, actually (never saw Death Note). I was mildly puzzled by the line, which is why I replied to it as I did.

Hm... Google works fine for me.
 

Chumala

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O.M.G!!!!!!!!!!!!


Dantalian No Shoka

<33333333333

Dalian is sooooooooooooo cute!!!!! I love her personality. :D
 

Camilla Delvalle

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Brilliance is often like that. Evangelion is the same way. A series like Cowboy Bebop may be perfect and flawless in many ways, but in doing so, it gives up certain things as well, and so it's not a series I would call brilliant, whereas series like Eva and, it seems, Utena, reach for something far more bold and ambitious, and, in doing so, they certainly falter more often, but are in the end greater works of art despite their flaws.
Something I find interesting in Evangelion is how the repetetive monster of the week thing even if it is sometimes boring can enhance other effects. The release in the scene where a certain symphony by Beethoven is played is made much more powerful by it being the point where the pattern ends or comes to completion.

The same with Noir. There's a lot of repetition in how in every episode a large number of people are killed. At the same time this reinforces the impression that to be targeted by Noir really means death, "without fail". In every episode there is also a certain music that is played that signals that soon a lot of people will have their asses kicked. Through "show, not tell", the watcher is accustomed to this supposition and preparated for the later parts of the series.
 

kuwisdelu

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Something I find interesting in Evangelion is how the repetetive monster of the week thing even if it is sometimes boring can enhance other effects. The release in the scene where a certain symphony by Beethoven is played is made much more powerful by it being the point where the pattern ends or comes to completion.

The repetition, be it from Eva, or Utena, or Star Driver, can be frustrating to some people who look to the action sequences for the conflict, but the action is really just a backdrop to the internal conflict of the characters and their development, which is where the real narrative lies.

You bring up music, and I think the structure of these kinds of narratives can be very well described by the structure of a classical fugue, in which a "subject" is stated, followed by various musical episodes and development of the subject in various keys, before finally returning to the opening key, and a coda.

To relate this back to Eva, we have the introduction of the angels, and episodic nature of fighting them. This motif gets developed and changes, but is truly only there to underscore the development of the characters. Reflecting this, as the characters are cast further and further into their depression and disconnection with reality, the angels — which began as fairly humanoid with Ramiel — grow less and less humanoid until we get beings like Leliel, which doesn't exist in our dimension, Arael which attacks by "raping" Asuka's mind, and Armasael which has no form and tries to absorb the Evas. Many of the battles grow less and less action and fighting oriented, and become battles that take place inside the character's minds, particularly noticeable when Leliel absorbs Shinji and when Arael's mind-rape attack ultimately reduces Asuka to fugue (hah) state. Before finally, we have a return to the original form, the original key, with Tabris, or Kaworu, who comes in the form of a human, and a coda in the ending.

In the same way a fugue plays with its musical subject and develops it, a show like Eva develops the motif it sets up in its fights and changes it to reflect the true nature of the narrative, this is, its characters. As the characters break down, so does this motif, as you mentioned, and Anno goes even further, as ultimately the very concept of traditional narrative is altogether abandoned. When the repetition breaks down, so does Shinji, as well as the narrative and the narrative's concept of "reality" itself, with the final two episodes, and the second half of End of Evangelion taking place in a meta-reality inside the minds of the characters. In this disconnected place, we have the coda that takes us to our ultimate conclusion, which is a return to reality, in a new state, i.e., a departure from the "fugue state" (heh) in which the characters — and perhaps ourselves — had fallen.

Speaking of music and Eva, anyone who does not break down when "Komm, süsser Tod" begins to play in End of Eva does not have a heart. Talk about release.

ETA: Likewise, though every episode ends with "Fly me to the moon (In other words)," every episode uses a different arrangement of it, often sung by the different seiyuus.
 
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kuwisdelu

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To apply it to Star Driver (spoilers ahead), we are introduced to a Cybody fight between Takuto and the Crux in the first episode, as we were with Shinji and the angels. Here, the battle music is actually sung in-show, with the maiden's songs. We begin with Sakana-chan's song, "Monochrome," which inducts us into the first battle. Thereafter, (almost) every battle begins with the singing of one of the maiden's song, and ends with Takuto defeating his enemy, their Cybody exploding, flying up into Zero-Time space and — for some inexplicable reason — exploding again.

Now this alone might become boring if it were the source of the show's conflicts, but its not. Rather, like Eva, it's about the growth and development of the characters as they "sing out their youth" in what is actually a fairly conventional coming-of-age story wrapped up in giant mecha fights, fraught with sexual innuendo and imagery.

Each episode develops the various members of the Crux and the main trio and their backstories and interaction form the internal conflicts that become central to the narrative. In a fugue, each repetition of the subject is supposed to have a musical "question" and a musical "answer." In Star Driver, the question is always why is this character fighting? This isn't a typical shounen series where the answer is simply "to save the world" or "to get the bad guy" or something like that. The answer always stems from the internal conflict of the character that episode has developed. Outwardly, the conflict is to stop the Crux from breaking free of Zero-Time, to save the world. For the Crux, the conflict is to defeat Takuto so they can become the leader and break free of Zero-Time. But these are never really the real reasons. Takuto wants to punch out his dad. Benio wants to impress Sugata. Keito wants to give Sugata power. Simone wants to rebel against Kanako. Etc. Likewise, even Head, the big bad, is not interested in world domination: rather, he is Gatsby, and wants to relive the past over and over again.

When we are introduced to each member of the Crux, and come to understand each member's internal conflict, each fight becomes has a subtext to it in that member's struggle to overcome a personal issue. As a coming-of-age story, being destroyed by Tauburn becomes a kind of right of passage, a catalyst that drives that character to the next step in his or her development. Each episode replays this fugue-like question/answer motif in different keys with the various characters. Additionally, we are introduced to new maidens, with their own songs to accompany the battles.

Ultimately, the final conflict in this pattern is Head's and Takuto's, and we are inducted into the final battle with the same music that introduced the first one, with the now-absent Sakana-chan's maiden song, "Monochrome." The rest of the pattern comes full circle with the return of the rest of the destroyed Cybodies, and the development of the cast of Crux characters is complete when their true marks return, allowing them to apprivoise again. Takuto's primary conflict is completed with his punching out Head, somehow managing to do this literally despite it being a mecha battle. His dream destroyed, literally, by Tauburn, Head will be forced to face the reality that the past can never be recaptured.

But as Sugata begins to seal Samekh, we are aware of the one conflict that truly remains in tension: that of the main trio, of Wako's relationship with Sugata and Takuto, and of Sugata's struggle to play his role regardless at the expense of his desires. And if we reflect at the previous pattern, the answer is obvious: they must undergo the right of passage of being destroyed by Tauburn. Therefore, Takuto destroys Wako's Cybody and breaks her seal (more sexual symbolism) and we are inducted into the coda with new music (from the OP). With her seal broken, Wako is able to fully admit her true feelings, and overcomes her conflict in accepting that she is in love with both Takuto and Sugata. With Tauburn's destruction of Samekh, Takuto frees Sugata to live his life as he wishes, rather than adhere to the duties placed upon him.

And so the adventure of life goes on...
 
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kuwisdelu

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Dayumnnnn.

Just caught up on this week's Penguindrum and No. 6.

Ikuhara is revving his mindfuck engines and Ringo is even crazier than all the previous episodes suggested. ETA: This episode was WTF enough that I watched it twice. :D God, I love mindfuckery anime. It's shame you have to pay for premium channels in the West to get even half-decent attempted mindfuckery.

With this and the last episode, No. 6 is finally getting as good as it promised. So are you ShionxNezumi or ShionxSafu?

Also (and I think this passes as okay here):

ringo-destiny.jpg
 
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Dawnstorm

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So are you ShionxNezumi or ShionxSafu?

ShionxNezumi makes more sense. Safu is most definitely friendzoned. In both match-ups, Shion is the weak link, though, so I can't say I care too much about the romance angle.

Wait! Shionx1 of Inukashi's puppies! Good fit, no?
 

Camilla Delvalle

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kuwisdelu, that's an interesting analysis of Evangelion as a fugue.

Some anime has made me think about Wagner's music with recurring themes that mean something. E.g. as I said, in Noir when a certain song beings to play, one knows what will happen.
 

Dawnstorm

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E.g. as I said, in Noir when a certain song beings to play, one knows what will happen.

Yep, and when they give different arrangements of certain songs out of context, it really tells you how they feel. (Noir has one of the best soundtracks, in terms of dramaturgy, I've encountered.)
 

Dawnstorm

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Can you tell me an example of this, please? I'm such a fan, so I'm interested in knowing about such details.

***Mild Noir spoilers***

In ep18, just when Kirika starts leaving Mireille, they play this version of Salva Nos. (It's in the back ground at first, but really takes over when you see Kirika walking along those railroad tracks.) [I might misremember.]

How is it that you have not seen Death Note? In my opinion it is the best anime.

Don't know. Just never happened. I do have it on my list.
 

Camilla Delvalle

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In ep18, just when Kirika starts leaving Mireille, they play this version of Salva Nos. (It's in the back ground at first, but really takes over when you see Kirika walking along those railroad tracks.) [I might misremember.]
That's cool. I'll look out for that next time I see the episode. It sounds good too.
 

kuwisdelu

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How did your Ph.D. exams go?

Should find out sometime this week. I think methods went okay. I'm pretty sure I bombed theory. That's okay, as it's my worst area anyway, and I only need to get good decent scores across three of the four exams.

Classes start tomorrow, so I'll be making my first bento tomorrow morning.
 

Camilla Delvalle

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So, what are you watching? The only one I've seen that's serious about the relationship aspect is Aoi Hana (after a manga from the same author that did Hourou Musuko).
Ok, I've seen an episode of Aoi Hana now.

The series I was watching was Maria-sama ga Miteru, though I couldn't say so because it was in the competition thread. I'm at season 3 now and I'd really like to see the live action movie, though it seems to be rare. It must be the least action-packed movie in existence.

I've also seen a few episodes of Strawberry Panic!
 

lulzy

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I never knew there was an anime discussion thread in here. But since there is, I'll probably spend most of my time in here then.

I finally decided to watch Madoka Magica because in another anime/manga website, they told me I should. I'm currently watching Blood-C right now but they weren't that interesting. It did pick up though. I'm really liking Ao No Exorcist and I'm also watching Uta No Prince Sama because my sister thought the opening was amusing. Usagi Drop is cute and I like it.

I read more manga than I watch anime though.