And after a pound of flesh is taken from the NFL, up comes NHL's turn.

Xelebes

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10 retired hockey players are suing the NHL for damages incurred by concussions that they allege that the NHL knew about but didn't do much.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ex-nhl-players-suing-league-over-concussions-1.2439840

The NFL was nailed for knowing the problem the problem they had with concussions but hid the data from the players. The NHL players don't have anything like that, but the NHL will have a lot of practices to explain before the courts, especially with the fighting on the ice.
 

blacbird

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Ummm . . . for the Canadian NHL players, shouldn't this be a kilogram of flesh?

Sorry . . . the moment was just right.

Seriously, though, the NHL has more U.S. teams than Canadian teams, so it's not a national thing. And the biggest problem with head injuries isn't the fighting, which often resembles the WWE in its theatricality, but the violent checks. Hockey players reach far greater velocities on the ice than do football players. For player-player collisions, hockey helmets are laughably useless. The NHL mandated helmets only after a player (Billy Masterson) was fatally injured back in the early 1960s through falling backwards and striking his head on the ice. That incident had nothing to do with any player-player collision.

But high-speed blind checks, even where the head is not involved, are serious concussion risks. One great player, Eric Lindros, had to curtail his career after numerous concussions, virtually all the result of player-player collisions. And he was a big strong guy, 6'5" and built like Atlas.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that Lindros is party to this litigation.

caw
 

cornflake

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Fighting is rarely to blame for concussions - when it's happened, as I recall, it's been due to a knockout punch that resulted in a fall that then caused the concussion.

Lindros was indeed fairly large, but was made of glass. There's also an argument to be made about his junior injuries, his own general doltishness (I don't mean it in a derogatory way, honestly, but the guy seemed to completely lack any sort of self-preservation instinct), and, of course, Bobby C.

As far as other people are concerned - personally, I'd argue the NHL, and particularly Buttboy's insistence on and dedication to removing, curtailing, stopping fighting from the game is what's most responsible for the head injuries.

Helmets also didn't help.
 

Xelebes

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I wouldn't be surprised to find that Lindros is party to this litigation.

caw

Lindros is not. The biggest names are Gary Leeman and Rick Vaive, players whose careers ended before 1997 when the NHL opened its forum to discuss concussions and looking at means to reducing them.
 

blacbird

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personally, I'd argue the NHL, and particularly Buttboy's insistence on and dedication to removing, curtailing, stopping fighting from the game is what's most responsible for the head injuries.

I think maybe you need to elaborate on this one. I'm missing the connection between stopping fighting (which you and I agree on isn't usually the cause of serious head injuries) and how that's responsible for the concussion issue, which is serious.

Helmets also didn't help.

For collision concussions, as I said, not much. For other things, like board checks, falls, getting hit with pucks, helmets do serve a useful purpose. Plus it's fun to see who gets the helmet ripped off first in any fight.

caw
 

cornflake

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I think maybe you need to elaborate on this one. I'm missing the connection between stopping fighting (which you and I agree on isn't usually the cause of serious head injuries) and how that's responsible for the concussion issue, which is serious.

For collision concussions, as I said, not much. For other things, like board checks, falls, getting hit with pucks, helmets do serve a useful purpose. Plus it's fun to see who gets the helmet ripped off first in any fight.

caw

I will argue strenuously and forever that trying to stop fighting has lead to increased injuries, including and perhaps specifically head injuries. The latter yes, but that's not what I meant.

Hockey is a full-contact sport. It's built in to the game.

Often, there's a disparity in size and strength between players of different positions.

It makes logical sense for, say, a large, strong player who is not responsible for scoring (or particularly proactive defense), on one team, to target the more needed, more talented, more responsible for scoring, often smaller and more vulnerable player on another team.

It's not hard for a well-placed, perfectly legal check to smash the hell out of, say, Kane (and who'd complain, really?). Same as it ever was.

It'd have been damn easy for a Howe to demolish Gretzky back in the '80s. Not like they couldn't find the little sucker - hint: look behind the net.

However, that didn't really happen, because had someone done that, it'd have .2 seconds from it occurring or the next puck drop for McSorley or Cementhead or whomever, along with everyone else including Fuhr/Ranford, to proceed to rip Howe limb from limb.

When Buttboy started trying to eliminate fighting wholesale, the league (as it's the North American system by nature), moved into the clutch-and-grab and danger zones. It's not been good for the game or the players. It doesn't benefit anyone to have a star forward at risk of perpetual squashing. It doesn't benefit the league to have the guy actually squashed. It benefits the opposition to squash him, especially if the only possible retribution is a penalty or even suspension leveled at a big guy employed mainly for the purpose of squashing.

Fighting kept things on a more even keel - it kept things on a more respectful level. The increase in the stuff that'd be kept in check by fighting, the increase in clutch-and-grab all led to more frustration which etc.

As to the helmets not helping - of course from puck hits, accidental falls, etc., they help and it's hard to argue against them. However, there's an argument to be made, that has been made, though not quantified, as there wasn't the same level or type of record-keeping, that the presence of helmets makes people careless.

When people knew there weren't helmets, sticks weren't as high, people weren't as quick to check up. LaFleur played how many years without incident? McTavish? It's anecdotal, as again these stats don't exist, but the people who played in both eras have said as much.
 
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Xelebes

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When people knew there weren't helmets, sticks weren't as high, people weren't as quick to check up. LaFleur played how many years without incident? McTavish? It's anecdotal, as again these stats don't exist, but the people who played in both eras have said as much.

The question is whether or not the referees were calling those high sticks, whether the coaches were pushing the players to race for end-to-end pucks and whether league management openly encouraged this recklessness with touch icing (as opposed to hybrid or no-touch icing) and the removal of the centre red line.