Trump moves US Israeli embassy to Jerusalem

Roxxsmom · Dec 6, 2017

So, he's breaking with several decades of US policy and is officially "recognizing" Israel's capital as Jerusalem instead of Tel Aviv.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/world/middleeast/trump-jerusalem-israel-capital.html

WASHINGTON — President Trump on Wednesday formally recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, reversing nearly seven decades of American foreign policy and setting in motion a plan to move the United States Embassy from Tel Aviv to the fiercely contested Holy City.

The problem, of course, is that Jerusalem is at the epicenter of the conflict with Palestine, as it's also considered to be the Palestinian capital. It's a pretty tacit statement about his stance on the two state solution to the conflict and of his support for settlements and so on.

Cynically, I can't help wondering if this isn't just meat for his base, but is also an attempt to stir up trouble and anger (which, if there is an eruption of violence in response to this, would increase support for his anti-Muslim policies and possibly for him and his administration in general--possibly just in time for the mid term elections).

Davy The First · Dec 6, 2017

Roxxsmom said:
So, he's breaking with several decades of US policy and is officially "recognizing" Israel's capital as Jerusalem instead of Tel Aviv.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/world/middleeast/trump-jerusalem-israel-capital.html

The problem, of course, is that Jerusalem is at the epicenter of the conflict with Palestine, as it's also considered to be the Palestinian capital. It's a pretty tacit statement about his stance on the two state solution to the conflict and of his support for settlements and so on.

Cynically, I can't help wondering if this isn't just meat for his base, but is also an attempt to stir up trouble and anger (which, if there is an eruption of violence in response to this, would increase support for his anti-Muslim policies and possibly for him and his administration in general--possibly just in time for the mid term elections).

Bit of both, I'd imagine, but mostly the first. This is hot, mega juicy red meat for the politicized Evangelical groups (not all, but certainly the politicized) Meat they've waited for since the days of St Reagan. They are now an absolute 'lock-in' for Trump. No other GOP pres was willing to risk middle east peace, for personal gain, til now.

Albedo · Dec 6, 2017

This will End Well™. For his next move, will he declare that Kashmir is in fact wholly Indian, or go long and recognize Taiwan's independence? Things aren't nuclear enough yet.

Davy The First · Dec 6, 2017

Albedo said:
This will End Well™. For his next move, will he declare that Kashmir is in fact wholly Indian, or go long and recognize Taiwan's independence? Things aren't nuclear enough yet.

Well, if his core (Evangelical) base knew what a Kashmir or Taiwan were, who knows?

For the moment, keeping abreast of the Book of Revelations 'sequence of events leading to the Second Coming,' as interpreted some years ago, is enough to be going on with.

BoF · Dec 6, 2017

Trump is setting up something with the potential to dwarf Benghazi.

Introversion · Dec 6, 2017

Davy The First said:
Well, if his core (Evangelical) base knew what a Kashmir or Taiwan were, who knows?

Wait, Kashmir is that stuff what you make fancy sweaters out of, innit?

Davy The First · Dec 6, 2017

From CUFI's facebook page. (CUFI have 3.8 million regd followers, according the the Times)

"Millions of evangelical Christians are praising Trump's decision. This promise to move the embassy to Jerusalem was a big factor in their support for his candidacy. Evangelicals realize there is no country on the face of the earth more pro-American than Israel and have been advocating for recognizing Jerusalem for many years.

Evangelicals view Jerusalem as the epicenter of Christianity and believe that if Israel views Jerusalem as its capital, the United States should as well. Christians United for Israel (CUFI) Action Fund Chairwoman Sandra Hagee Parker tells me this latest move will strengthen America's position in the world by making it clear that we stand with our allies and will never be bullied by terrorists."

@Introversion. Yes, yes it is.

BenPanced · Dec 6, 2017

Nah. It was named after that Led Zepplin song.

Alessandra Kelley · Dec 6, 2017

BoF said:
Trump is setting up something with the potential to dwarf Benghazi.

I thought that mysterious death of soldiers in Niger already dwarfed Banghazi, not that anyone seems to care.

Remember that? Less than two months ago? Kept hushed up for weeks and then the Man Occupying the White House called the widow to gloat at her about how her husband knew what he was getting into, and he forgot the dead man’s name while talking to her? And then denied that he had said anything any freshly grieving widow could object to?

Still haven’t heard why those soldiers died or what happened.

Then again, the Man Occupying the White House seems marginally skilled at constantly throwing out more provocations so all the atrocities get left behind and forgotten as new ones are presented.

And not a single Republican in Congress seems to have one ten-thousandth of the interest in investigating these genuine incidents as they did in pursuing phantom vendettas against Democrats.

Roxxsmom · Dec 6, 2017

Is it possible to ask someone to fix my spelling of "Israeli" in the thread title? I was typing too fast on a strange keyboard (and multitasking) when I entered it, and the misspelling is making some eyelids twitch (mine too). :e2tomato:

I'm pretty sure there's a way for me to fix it, but heck if I can figure out how to edit the thread title.

NM, I found it. FAQ thread FTW.

Technophobe · Dec 6, 2017

Davy The First said:
From CUFI's facebook page. (CUFI have 3.8 million regd followers, according the the Times)

"Millions of evangelical Christians are praising Trump's decision. This promise to move the embassy to Jerusalem was a big factor in their support for his candidacy. Evangelicals realize there is no country on the face of the earth more pro-American than Israel and have been advocating for recognizing Jerusalem for many years.

Evangelicals view Jerusalem as the epicenter of Christianity and believe that if Israel views Jerusalem as its capital, the United States should as well. Christians United for Israel (CUFI) Action Fund Chairwoman Sandra Hagee Parker tells me this latest move will strengthen America's position in the world by making it clear that we stand with our allies and will never be bullied by terrorists."

@Introversion. Yes, yes it is.

Yeah, Israel loves the US, as long as we continue the policy of 'Israel should get everything its own way, with nothing more than the occasional gentle rebuke, which the US scrambles to say wasn't really a rebuke, just... an expression of concern'.

Also, CUFI can bite me. They don't give a shit about Israel; they're only happy about this because they think it fulfills part of a prophesy foretelling Christ's return. In other words, it benefits them. Or so they think.

ElaineA · Dec 6, 2017

Thomas Friedman had the BEST take on this. tl;dr: Trump is a chump.

It's a total giveaway, for absolutely nothing on the world stage. Whatever he gains at home massages his ego and pays back Steve Bannon, but little else that actually matters.

Just like the canceling the TPP, to China's glee, the "Dealmaker" left his leverage out in the limo, came into the negotiation, and gave away the farm. What a joke. I've said it in other threads, but I'll say it again. When this guy's done with us, we're going to be a cut-rate country no one gives a fig about. Like Russia after the collapse of communism, we'll just be a side-note, easily swept aside by new world leaders China, or India, or Germany, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia...who knows!? We'll have squandered all leadership on the world stage, (which a lot of people think is a good thing. We'll see) and all economic leverage. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

Brightdreamer · Dec 6, 2017

ElaineA said:
tl;dr: Trump is a chump.

IMHO, that was the primary purpose for his selection as nominee. Actions like this merely add weight to that hypothesis. (It also makes him easily disposable, once he's served his purpose in furthering the agendas of others, or in the off chance he becomes a significant liability - which, sadly, hasn't apparently happened yet.)

ShaunHorton · Dec 7, 2017

I saw it picked up a few places, but speculation is also coming out right now about Trump's condition as he started slurring his words at the end of the Jerusalem press conference. I've also seen someone compare his signature from that event to the one he held up at one of his early EO's.

Is it bad to hope the man strokes out?

Davy The First · Dec 7, 2017

ShaunHorton said:
I saw it picked up a few places, but speculation is also coming out right now about Trump's condition as he started slurring his words at the end of the Jerusalem press conference. I've also seen someone compare his signature from that event to the one he held up at one of his early EO's.

Is it bad to hope the man strokes out?

He sniffled a lot during his speech, and his eyes looked, well, strange. Hard to know what caused it.

Re his signature. Before it took him quite a while to draw the up and down lines. I suspect he's been practicing since then, how to do the up and down lines with greater speed - to look like someone writing their signature. I've no doubt in my mind that he's functionally illiterate

@technophone +1

BoF · Dec 7, 2017

Ta

ShaunHorton said:
I saw it picked up a few places, but speculation is also rycoming ngout right now about Trump's condition as he started slurring his words at the end of the Jerusalem press conference. I've also seen someone compare his signatures from that event to the one he held up at one of his early EO's.

Is it bad to hope the man strokes out?

I wouldn'the wish "stroking out" on anyone, but Trump's dietary habits could set him up for some sort of medical crisis.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/12/trump-eats/547355/?utm_source=atlfb

Atlantic12 · Dec 7, 2017

Davy The First said:
For the moment, keeping abreast of the Book of Revelations 'sequence of events leading to the Second Coming,' as interpreted some years ago, is enough to be going on with.

This. And it's no joke.

Quite a few years back I wrote a novel just for fun about a media mogul who triggers the Second Coming via various machinations from the shadows. I did a ton of research about what the radical evangelicals think of this stuff, and it is frightening. The Jerusalem move fits the playbook *exactly.* If people start talking about returned prophets and perfect red heifers, run for the hills.

By the way, my novel was satire. This was back when I thought people couldn't be this gullible and ruthless in real life. (*sob*)

On the bright side, at least according to my story, the forces of Good/God were having none of it, and refused to be pushed around by a bunch of self-proclaimed "Christians." If this thing was ever published, I'm sure the death threats would just roll in....

cbenoi1 · Dec 7, 2017

Atlantic12 said:
Quite a few years back I wrote a novel just for fun about a media mogul who triggers the Second Coming via various machinations from the shadows.

I suggest you read Lee Child's "Nothing To Lose" ( link ). Same overall idea. A Christian-reborn villain with a finger not on the nukes but on something just as bad.

If you don't know who Reacher is, take a peek from the movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8INSTZRGdaE

-cb

Atlantic12 · Dec 7, 2017

cbenoi1 said:
I suggest you read Lee Child's "Nothing To Lose" ( link ). Same overall idea. A Christian-reborn villain with a finger not on the nukes but on something just as bad.

If you don't know who Reacher is, take a peek from the movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8INSTZRGdaE

-cb

Oh, yeah, I've read and liked some Reacher books.

Introversion · Dec 7, 2017

ShaunHorton said:
Is it bad to hope the man strokes out?

God works in mysterious ways, right?

I read speculation that his slurring was caused by his dentures. Personally, I’d rather the man dies in a prison cell, rather than winks painlessly out on TV.

Davy The First · Dec 7, 2017

Atlantic12 said:
This. And it's no joke.

Quite a few years back I wrote a novel just for fun about a media mogul who triggers the Second Coming via various machinations from the shadows. I did a ton of research about what the radical evangelicals think of this stuff, and it is frightening. The Jerusalem move fits the playbook *exactly.* If people start talking about returned prophets and perfect red heifers, run for the hills.

By the way, my novel was satire. This was back when I thought people couldn't be this gullible and ruthless in real life. (*sob*)

On the bright side, at least according to my story, the forces of Good/God were having none of it, and refused to be pushed around by a bunch of self-proclaimed "Christians." If this thing was ever published, I'm sure the death threats would just roll in....

Problem is, this group had voting rights, and they use them. Others have used their support, but a creature like Trump, knows no boundaries, none at all. To risk peace in the middle-east so he could tie in this group, is beyond the pale.

But it's not just this group. The 'intellectual' component of the GOP, eg Paul Ryan, subscribe to an equally 'Perfect Utopia' End fairytale - in their case it's Ayn Rand's gibberish. All End justifies the Means adherents, are very, very scary, from a sociopolitical standpoint, from wherever they arise.

Davy The First · Dec 8, 2017

re Trump's mental decline/ alzheimers, this story from RAW story is interesting

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/12/watch-the-video-that-suggests-trump-is-suffering-from-alzheimers/

cbenoi1 · Dec 8, 2017

Davy The First said:
re Trump's mental decline/ alzheimers, this story from RAW story is interesting

Trump will undergo a physical and release details early next year. http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/president-donald-trump-physical/index.html

I'd rather see him release his tax details instead.

-cb

TCnKC · Dec 8, 2017

I think we know the elephant in the room but feel icky(paranoid?) saying it. Trump has never wanted to actually BE president(just get the recognition, profit off of it etc.) If the SC investigate continues the way it's going who's to say that the president's 'health' sudden is a concern for people and calls for him to resign(for health reasons) come up. Of course, we all know that Trump hates to admit to losing(or weakness) so who knows the end result but the ground work is being laid make no mistake

shakeysix · Dec 8, 2017

watching him wink out while delivering one of his lying, two faced rants is my new dream--s6

Trump moves US Israeli embassy to Jerusalem

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

Davy The First

Albedo

Alex

Davy The First

BoF

Cautious Daredevil

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!

Davy The First

BenPanced

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)

Alessandra Kelley

Sophipygian

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

Technophobe

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.

Brightdreamer

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist

ShaunHorton

AW's resident Velociraptor

Davy The First

BoF

Cautious Daredevil

Atlantic12

cbenoi1

Atlantic12

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!

Davy The First

Davy The First

cbenoi1

TCnKC

shakeysix

blue eyed floozy