Purgatory's Pit of Doom

Good for you, Chelsea.

I'm going to beat the FSOG topic to death, but I'm in the middle of reading the blog that Leigh recommended by the gal who is reviewing it chapter by chapter. It's gotta be one of the funniest things I've ever read. In fact, I've never actually spit my coffee onto my keyboard before reading her, and now I have. I can almost swear she's one of the Smart Bitches, because she writes just like them.

Anyway, I went onto Amazon to read some bad reviews of the book, and I also read some NYT articles about it, and the unanimous opinion is that it's really poorly written. And judging from the excerpts I've read, it is.

So I wonder how this author must feel knowing this, reading these reviews that say "My 9-yr-old can write better," etc. Yeah, she can laugh her way to the bank, but come on, this isn't just a few bad reviews here. We're talking hundreds -- maybe thousands! If I were her, I'd feel pretty shitty. And then run to the nearest community college to take a basic grammar/writing course before I write my next book.

Oops, I mixed up the windows.

Catwoman said:

Anyway, I went onto Amazon to read some bad reviews of the book

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I've enjoyed all the parodies going around - from Ellen reading a portion of it, to this "Funny or Die" video - link here.

I glanced at those Amazon reviews, and what amazes me is the polarization - over 2,000 5-star reviews (huh!?!?) and just about as many 1-star reviews (some, biting and ironically well-written), with a few hundred sprinkled in between.

Guess it's just an extreme example of how incredibly subjective writing can be...

Edit - Catwoman, do you have the link to that blog? I'd like to check it out.

I don't think James cares about the negative reviews. She knew the thing had potential beyond its fanfiction incarnation. So did Random House. She's making serious money on it, and - according to her own words back in her fanfic days - money, luxury, and financial security were her end goal all along. Her writing is good enough to guarantee that, as long as the buzz holds. Plus, I get the feeling that she genuinely believes her writing is spectacular (or she's magnificent at marketing hype).

It's terrible writing. I'm sorry for the FSoG fans who don't know this, but maybe they'll branch out later. In the meantime, James is one of the blockbuster authors who make it possible for Random House to take on less-viable books across many genres and imprints.

Am I happy about it? Nope. Does it make me reconsider submitting stuff to RH imprints, especially knowing some of their other shenanigans over the years? Yep. But let's see how I change my tune if they ever offer me a boatload of money. And for now, they might be just the thing for other writers.

So E. L. James can keep churning out the copy, as far as I care.

ChelseaWriter said:

Edit - Catwoman, do you have the link to that blog? I'd like to check it out.

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Here it is. It's pure gold.

Many thanks! ;-)

Chelsea -- have you seen the SNL "Mother's Day commercial"?

Here

But the fans go crazy for it. Like Twilight, no one is crazy about the writing but the concept keeps the copies piling in. and keeps making women swoon, which makes men interested What a contrast to Harry Potter, which backed up it's killer concept with solid writing and storytelling.
And because of Twilight, my bookstore has a full Teen Paranormal Romance shelf and a booming "Fantasy Romance" stock. Maybe 50 Shades will bring about a dedicated "Erotic Romance" shelf?

(TBF My Barnes/Noble sucks - they have no R&D authors stocked, what's up with that? Except for Chaos and Irysangel. But then again, good luck finding most of the titles I want there...the price of living in the sticks.)

Catwoman said:

Chelsea -- have you seen the SNL "Mother's Day commercial"?

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LOL!! Hilarious stuff!!

Ooh! I'll watch and read over the weekend.

Can't keep my eyes open. 14-hour day yesterday beat me up.

(((Cricket))) Get some rest.

I... can't... even... FSoG....

FSoG does something well. Readers are enjoying it, whether as intended or the opposite. And it's always good when people talk about books. How many books that are not also films have you seen parodied on SNL? I can't think of any.

Is it always good though when people talk? Serious question. My brother called me last night, and brought up FSoG among other topics. His idea: we should write a romance novel because look at FSoG and how bad the writing is, and so obviously anyone can write one and get it published and read by desperate women.

Now, my brother was partially drunk so I can forgive him , and he did take my rant about how wrong he was about romance and publishing seriously, but he explained that was the common attitude among everyone he knew. I'm not convinced that increasing the stigma against romance/erotic books (and the quality of published books in general) is a good thing.

Mornin pitzsters!

Thanks for the link Cat.

Oh man about your brother, Ink. Ignorance is bliss. Tell him to try writing a couple of books and getting published THEN we can talk about how easy it is (lol watch, he'd be the one to write ONE book, get a huge deal and laugh!)

BWAHAHAH The mother's day commercial was HILARIOUS!

Mornin', Pit

Welcome, Chelsea, sorry to see you here.

{{{Cricket}}}

LOL, DVI

I haven't chimed in on the FSoG stuff, but this is my take--it's guilty pleasure. It's junk food. It's a big bag of Fritos that you eat while watching TV and half an hour later you say, "Holy crap, I ate the whole thing?"

Fans of the book know that. Plus, it's sex, which as the saying goes, sells. Double plus, it taps into the hidden psyche of many women. That's why the Story of O was an underground hit many years ago, and A. R1c3's Sleeping Beauty trilogy was as well in the 1980s. But every generation gets more experimental.

FSoG has caused a boom is sales of the life equipment, and hardware stores have seen a boom in rope sales, mainly by women. It was reported in the Daily News yesterday. FSoG tapped into people's psyches, that's why it's a hit IMO, regardless of quality of writing because that isn't important under these circumstances.

Posting my question here because there are librarian(s).

Can someone give me a good definition of where chapter books end and lower middle grade begins?

I suspect there is overlap.

I'm talking about books aimed at 3rd grade readers about 15,000 word in length. (I'll probably post the same question in purgatory because there are different folks over there. I may even venture out of these threads . . .. . )

Lin Oliver looked at one of my books at the last conference and called it "lower middle grade." Then she said 3rd grade. Then she said such books need to be short (15,000 words give or take). Why isn't it a chapter book?

ETA: I've been googling, and people seem to feel that chapter books are 2 - 3 rd grade, and middle grade is 4 - 6 grade. Lower middle grade and chapter books seem to be used interchangeably.

Interesting perspective, Steve, and not one that I've heard. I'm sure a big part of it was that they were into you, not just the "life." I haven't read FSoG, but it's not just about what Christian does, but the fantasy of who he is.

Teri, there's a ton of overlap between lower MG and CB, and 15,000 words could go either way. Looking at the industry, if it's a series, it would be marketed as a CB. If it's stand-alone, lower MG.

kellion92 said:

Interesting perspective, Steve, and not one that I've heard. I'm sure a big part of it was that they were into you, not just the "life." I haven't read FSoG, but it's not just about what Christian does, but the fantasy of who he is.

Teri, there's a ton of overlap between lower MG and CB, and 15,000 words could go either way. Looking at the industry, if it's a series, it would be marketed as a CB. If it's stand-alone, lower MG.

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I just queried an editor who has never ever responded to a single thing I've sent her. Heck. When I was agented she didn't respond.

I called my latest a chapter book, with no mention of a series. She requested the manuscript. (I queried her even though I felt I was sending a missive into the void.)

Now I'm wondering if "chapter book" may be the magic words. Like picture books, they don't see tons of them. I've noticed that markets change once advances get huge. HP changed middle grade. Twlight changed YA. PB and CBs seem to be "pure" -- no huge advances, so editors are not swamped with manuscripts.

The SNL commercial was pure win...especially the bathtub scene .

I've read excerpts on JA's blog (more pure win). I don't think I'm going to read the actual book, since some of the things the male MC does/says make me want to plunge a fork into his eyeballs...

BTW, I'm getting good at figuring out how to get requests from editors.

You know the saying always a bridesmaid never a bride? What's the equivalent for "always a request, never an offer."

Not to brightside, Teri, but keep getting requests is huge.

Not a lot of chapter books repped out there by agents. I do think that those (and PBs and MGs) do a bit better when queried to editors directly because agents aren't repping them or giving them what they want.

But magic words? There just aren't any, Teri!

SteveCordero said:

Not to brightside, Teri, but keep getting requests is huge.

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What's funny is I no longer expect to sell anything. My goal is to keep editors busy reading my stuff.

I helps to have very low expectations. It also helps to be stubborn beyond the point of sanity.

ETA: Kell, I should go back and delete out the phrase "magic words." What is the punishment in the pit for even suggesting such a thing? Bring on the hell hounds. I deserve it. (I was just so shocked that this particular editor actually responded. Mind you -- I don't expect her to actually publish my book.)