Christian Fantasy?

Mac H. · Jun 23, 2010

Rhys Cordelle said:
Science destroyed humanity (with what they thought was a cure for cancer) and religion saved it (by having god send a woman to Neville to obtain the cure for vampirism).

I think you might be reading too much into that film. (But I might be wrong, of course!)

I saw the touch of the religion angle as just a cover a plot hole. We want the woman to turn up at Neville's darkest moment for the most dramatic plot possible.

However, that would be a hell of a coincidence - the whole story is that he was doing the same thing every day for years, yet suddenly when things go very bad she suddenly turns up ?

By having it happen and then having her assert that it is to with faith kind of works to cover that up. It also gives him a source of conflict between them - if they were both scientific and methodical then there'd be no conflict and no interesting story.

At least, if I was given the task of tweaking the story for film that's the kind of thing I'd add - even though I don't have a 'message' about religion. Look at the original film which was more true to the book - it was a bit tedious.

Good luck !

Mac

Rhys Cordelle · Jun 23, 2010

Well, real or imagined, the point is you shouldn't portray your work as something that it's not. They called it I Am Legend, I expected I Am Legend. But that's not what I got.

ishtar'sgate · Jun 24, 2010

Mark W. said:
Just wondering, do you consider Fantasy novels that explore Christian inspired themes to be Christian Fiction? That is kind of what my novel explores and so the question is one that intrigues me.

Thanks!

I would expect that readers looking to purchase a piece of Christian fiction are looking for works that reinforce Christian beliefs so I'm not sure it could be classifed as Christian Fantasy, probably just Fantasy.

Deb Kinnard · Jun 27, 2010

I think it takes a bit more than exploring questions of Good vs. Evil to be classified as Christian fiction. Like an earlier poster said, we don't have a patent on all that and we're not likely to get one anytime soon.

If, however, a book explores such questions in light of our particular mindset ("our" referring to Christians), that's very fine with me. I don't like it when a potential reader of my work declines it because I call it Christian fiction. I do like it very much when a reader who doesn't call him/herself Christian reads my work, likes it, and tells me he/she didn't feel preached at. Then I feel as though I've done my job.

And please, Hollywood or wherever -- don't cheat me with movies. If I want to see a good adaptation of WAR OF THE WORLDS, make a movie that has something to do with the book! Please!

And do not put Tom The Short in it. That's not a request.

Starhorsepax · Jun 27, 2010

It can be both. For instance, you can find Stephen Lawhead's series about King Arthur, Robin Hood and the like in sci fi fantasy. But they have a definite christian attitude, and talk about Christ.
You can't please everyone though. I heard of a church that was burning Tolkien books, and he was a catholic! Apparently they objected to the 'wizard' (which is just what people call him really, since they didn't know what he was, but you wouldn't know that from LOTR). When Harry Potter came out I decided to see what all the fuss was about and was dismayed far more by the bad arguments fellow christians were using in taking stuff out of context than any good arguments about whether it was wise to encourage an interest in magic. Everyone who read the book could recognize the bad arguments right off, so I should think they'd be less likely to listen to good ones.

DavidZahir · Jul 11, 2010

There was a board I used to go to, declaring itself explicitly to be all about Christian Fantasy. The mod made no bones about her own Conservative Roman Catholicism. Mostly the posters there regarded art as nothing but propaganda. For example, despite Tolkien's explicit claims to the contrary, they insisted on seeing Lord of the Rings as a Roman Catholic sermon. They simply adored Narnia. But nearly all of them were at least deeply critical of Harry Potter, which I personally regard as very Christian. They weren't upset about the presence of magic (remember, these are fans of the fantasy genre) but because the moral questions involved weren't simplistic enough. Harry, for example, lies and gets away with it many times. They consistently viewed literature as teaching specific lessons rather than giving an experience from which you draw your own lessons. And moral ambiguity was a big no-no. One review of The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever simply could not forgive the author for showing extremely troubled, extremely flawed characters as heroes.

For my part, I thought Harry Potter to be subtly but clearly evocative of Christian Faith. Christianity is the only religion mentioned, and the moral messages involved (which are explicit, but nicely done so I never felt something being shoved down my throat) are clearly linked to Christian ideas at their best (although to be fair such ideals are hardly a Christian monopoly).

Shiny · Jul 11, 2010

DavidZahir said:
They consistently viewed literature as teaching specific lessons rather than giving an experience from which you draw your own lessons. And moral ambiguity was a big no-no.

That's a shame. I think stories that make you think are generally more powerful than ones that just tell you what to think. They have a lingering effect.

For my part, I thought Harry Potter to be subtly but clearly evocative of Christian Faith. Christianity is the only religion mentioned, and the moral messages involved (which are explicit, but nicely done so I never felt something being shoved down my throat) are clearly linked to Christian ideas at their best (although to be fair such ideals are hardly a Christian monopoly).

Yes, absolutely. J.K. Rowling has spoken openly about her faith and the books, and it's odd to me that a minority felt so much fear and antagonism towards the stories. I suspect in time they will have something closer to the reputation of C.S. Lewis as stories that are positive for Christianity.

AnnieColleen · Jul 11, 2010

Hmm, I'm pretty sure I know which board you're talking about, and I think you're oversimplifying...leaving it at that since we're here, not there.

Mark, I hadn't mentioned it earlier because it sounded like you were asking about agents/publishers, which isn't really the focus of that board (directed more towards readers & parents), but if you want to check it out, let me know.

Starhorsepax · Aug 14, 2010

DavidZahir said:
There was a board I used to go to, declaring itself explicitly to be all about Christian Fantasy. The mod made no bones about her own Conservative Roman Catholicism. Mostly the posters there regarded art as nothing but propaganda. For example, despite Tolkien's explicit claims to the contrary, they insisted on seeing Lord of the Rings as a Roman Catholic sermon. They simply adored Narnia. But nearly all of them were at least deeply critical of Harry Potter, which I personally regard as very Christian. They weren't upset about the presence of magic (remember, these are fans of the fantasy genre) but because the moral questions involved weren't simplistic enough. Harry, for example, lies and gets away with it many times. They consistently viewed literature as teaching specific lessons rather than giving an experience from which you draw your own lessons. And moral ambiguity was a big no-no. One review of The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever simply could not forgive the author for showing extremely troubled, extremely flawed characters as heroes.

For my part, I thought Harry Potter to be subtly but clearly evocative of Christian Faith. Christianity is the only religion mentioned, and the moral messages involved (which are explicit, but nicely done so I never felt something being shoved down my throat) are clearly linked to Christian ideas at their best (although to be fair such ideals are hardly a Christian monopoly).

I remember reading a book specifically about that mess with Harry Potter, how two people could see it totally different ways. Can't recall the title. The only problem I had with it was the whole turning animals into inanimate objects. For some reason I can't put into words I find that disturbing. Maybe it's just because I'm an animal lover. Or maybe it's the notion of drinking out of a cup made of rat!
Can any christian read about death eaters and NOT thank God for their beliefs? :scared:

dreamer89 · Sep 28, 2010

I think there can absolutely be a Christian/Fantasy genre. Why not? If it explores Christian themes with fantasy elements. In fact, that is what my novel does. And as stated above there are several fantasy books with Christian themes.

Elias Graves · Nov 30, 2010

I'm in a bit of an in between place with my story. The themes and characters are strictly religious. Peter himself appears in the story. :lol:
The work is more of a track down the bad guy kind of story, though the bad guy is a demon.
There's no evangelizing or apologetics taking place so it comes across more like a police thriller but the setting is in the church rather than the precinct.
Perhaps it will become more clear as I progress whether it's targeted to mainstream fantasy or Christian markets.

EG

Roger J Carlson · Dec 1, 2010

You can certainly write Christian Fantasy. Whether a CBA publisher will acutally publish it is another question. And if a secular publisher publishes it, is it Christian Fantasy or a fantasy with a Christian theme? And is there a difference?

I suppose it all depends on what you mean by Christian Fantasy.

Mark W. · Jan 2, 2011

I always thought that Frank Peretti's "This Present Darkness" to be a good example of Christian Fantasy. Anyone else consider him as such?

Calla Lily · Jan 2, 2011

Absolutely. But it was published in 1986. The market has changed. As is to be expected. Are you writing something Peretti-ish, with angels and demons appearing and affecting characters and events? Is it an allegory, like Narnia and Pilgrim's Progress?

Whatever it is, check out the offerings of the current big CBA houses and see if they're publishing what you're writing. Check the CBA-geared agents, too, and see what their wish-lists are.

TheWordsmith · Jan 16, 2011

Mark W. said:
Just wondering, do you consider Fantasy novels that explore Christian inspired themes to be Christian Fiction? That is kind of what my novel explores and so the question is one that intrigues me.

Back to your original question... 'Christian inspired' themes do not necessarily limit the story to concrete Earth, God, and Christ stories. The 'Christian inspired' themes to which you allude are, in fact, the basic precepts of the majority of modern religions. The one hard and fast rule, however, in Christian Fantasy, would be a solid undercurrent of those so-called Christian themes. And it would be my guess that good must always triumph over evil.

Also, the Christian theme need not be overt. If the 'moral of the story', the underlying theme, upholds basic Christian principles (which, as we've already noted are not the solitary purview of Christian faiths) then it would easily fall into the Christian Fantasy genres.

TheWordsmith · Jan 16, 2011

Pat~ said:
You might check an agent or editor's blog (eg. Rachelle Gardner is a Christian agent looking for Christian fantasy) and ask them that question. I'd be interested in the reply, if you get one.

Just as an afternote: Rachelle Gardner, while not accepting any submissions at the present, is absolutely NOT accepting fantasy submissions, Christian or otherwise even when she does open to submissions.

Dancre · Jan 17, 2011

I write Christian fantasy and it explores a young prince who is angry at God b/c things didn't go his way. It's kind of what I went through years ago. I soon discovered I can't blame God b/c things don't go my way. I have other things also like trusting God and in His word, building a relationship with him, etc. I put the things I learned in my walk with God in the book, but also added demons, princes, sword fights, etc. My second book in my series really gets into my relationship with God, but with fantasy characters. I was really surprised to see many metaphors to Christ throughout the story. Trippy, huh?

Let me also add, I think too many times us christian writers are a bit frightened to dive into the deeper things of God, like Isaiah or Jeremiah or John did for fear we'll be 'judged' as wierd or crazy by the world. I see so many christian fantasy novels that just skim the surface of God, never really diving into Him. But I think it's when we dive deeper into God and who He is in our fantasy novels that makes the story shine. Just trust Him and don't worry.

Mark W. said:
Just wondering, do you consider Fantasy novels that explore Christian inspired themes to be Christian Fiction? That is kind of what my novel explores and so the question is one that intrigues me.

Thanks!

Kersten · Feb 5, 2011

Rhys Cordelle said:
Is this some sort of satire? What is this. I don't even...
'Good vs Evil' is not a Christian Theme. 'Good vs Evil' is a theme that's relevant to Christianity, just as it is relevant to a variety of different philosophical and religious views.

I agree totally that Good vs Evil is not only a Christian theme.

I would also agree with Flannery O'Conner that any book written by a Christian is a Christian book. Christ is the light by which we see. Books like TLOTR are deeply Christian and deeply Catholic because metaphysically speaking when the author created Middle Earth that was what was in him.

O'Conner's 'A Good Man is Hard to Find' is deeply Christian -- *and* deeply unsettling.

Because when we create worlds we draw on what we know of what is out there, and what it is like.

Oh -- and Hi! I'm new around here. I write children's books and YA for the Christian and for the general market.

Chuckles · Feb 14, 2011

I consider any Fantasy novel to be Fantasy, despite what themes it may (or may not) explore. I'd say personally that they would be "Fiction with strong Christian themes" or "Fiction by a Christian author." (to use two obvious ones: I'd put Narnia in the first and TLOTR in the second)

Basically it comes down to the extent that Christianity plays a part in the story. Obviously CS Lewis had a stronger "Christian theme" to his books that Tolken did, but they where in fact both Christian.

Like Dancre said, dive in! When its all said and done step back and see just how "Christian" it feels. I also like the idea of having people who are not Christian read it to get an "outside" perspective.

I guess what I'm trying to say is : Christian themes don't instantly equal "Christian Fiction".

Kersten · Feb 15, 2011

Chuckles, TLOTR was not an allegory, however, it was deeply Christian in theme. To Tolkien, the story of Jesus was a "true myth".

Tolkien wrote, "The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision."

The sacraments of the Catholic Church (which allow grace and life to flow into a person through the physical realm) for instance, were important to the story. They were are represented by Galadrial's gifts. She might have been speaking directly to the Reformers when she said:

"For this is what your folk would call magic, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem to use the same words for the deceits of the enemy."

Boromir's death was amazing. He died repentant, confessed, forgiven and kissed by the Priest/King.

An excellent book on Tolkien's mythopoaeia (by a non-Catholic, so a little more accessible to those of us not of that tradition) is: The Gospel According to Tolkien: Visions of the Kingdom in Middle-earth by
Ralph C. Wood.

I highly recommend it!

Kersten

Chuckles · Feb 16, 2011

I agree Kersten, I was making the separation in that with Narnia its pretty hard to over look the Christian Influence, with TLOTR its rather easy.

I'm under the impression that a Christian author is bound to have certain Christian themes in anything they do. In that sense I would really gauge any work on a scale with one side being heavily and obviously Christian based and the other being less obviously Christian based. I wouldn't say that Narnia and TLOTR are on complete opposite sides, just that I'd place them respectfully closer to one side or the other.

I'll have to look that book up, sounds interesting.

Of course when it all comes down to it, its up to the Publisher to decide if "Christian Fiction" exists or not, despite what I myself feel about the matter. LOL.

ElizaFaith13 · Mar 26, 2011

Ruv Draba said:
Hi Mark...

As a passing atheist I don't consider most fantasy with Christian themes to be exclusively Christian fiction. Ultimately, themes of devotion, sacrifice, forgiveness, humility and their opposites underpin a great deal of Western European fantasy, and remain a staple of fantasy literature today. Such themes can be found overtly in ancient classics like Le Morte d'Arthur, as well as early 20th century classics like those of C.S. Lewis and JRR Tolkien, and in the more recent fantasy of Julian May, Roberta A. McAvoy and others work directly with Christian concepts and symbols at times. If you write strong fantasy with deep Christian themes, you might be reaching two markets and not one.

You perfectly described my book. I've been struggling with Christian agents vs everyone else. It seems a lot of the Christian agents don't take unsolicited queries, or queries from new authors.

eustacegirl · Apr 8, 2011

You can get Christian morals from Beastly (movie and book)and Beauty and the Beast. Christian themes, you get from the Chronicles of Narnia (movies and books) and Lord of the Rings.

Lavern08 · Apr 12, 2011

My friend, Kayleamay (an AWer), wrote Elo'esh:The Whispers of Angels.

I think it's a great example of Fantasy with a Christian overtone - I mean, what could be more *christian* than an awesome story about Angels?

Ardent Kat · Apr 20, 2011

Karen Hancock is a contemporary Christian SF/F writer. Check her out. Her stories are allegorical in that the scriptural figures and ideas are obfuscated by different names and metaphors (much like Narnia) but there's no question a Christian reader would recognize that the science fiction-y power suit the protagonist wears in Arena directly parallels the "full armor of God" from Ephesians 6.

Rhys Cordelle said:
'Good vs Evil' is not a Christian Theme. 'Good vs Evil' is a theme that's relevant to Christianity, just as it is relevant to a variety of different philosophical and religious views.

Agreed. I think so many people associate good/evil dichotomy as Christian and desirable in their fiction because it flies in the face of moral relativity that's so prevalent in fiction today.

One sentiment I hear a lot from secular or neopagan circles in the blogosphere is the idea that there is no good or evil, there are only life experiences that we can learn from. Even people who do so-called "evil" things had positive (if selfish) motives, so no one should be labeled evil and no action in itself is evil.

I hear that particular brand of moral relativity and I can't help but think, "Okay, so if a grade school teacher molests your child or the same teacher is a mentor and inspiration to your child, these are morally equable and equally desirable outcomes?" I don't think so.

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