Austrian far-right leader dies in crash

Good riddance. The man was a pestilence.

I feel for his family. I wish them well in their grief.

Nature or nurture, the man is a case study.

And now, who will take the lead? Unfortunately, such leaders have their followers.
Oh, where is Waldheim these days?

donroc said:

And now, who will take the lead? Unfortunately, such leaders have their followers.
Oh, where is Waldheim these days?

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And said followers are usually worse than they were (See Lenin's followers for example).

aruna said:

Good riddance. The man was a pestilence.

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Shame on you. What if I say that about Ted Kennedy when he dies in the near future?

donroc said:

And now, who will take the lead? Unfortunately, such leaders have their followers.

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Hi, I'm Austrian, and the situation's quite a bit more complex.

The original party, the FPÖ, has been the biggest "small" party for quite a long time and has thus attracted many idealist politicians who were not necessarily fond of the party mainline, but who thought that they had a chance to influence politics by gaining parliament seats and strengthening oppositions. Many local offshoots of the party were quite votable, too.

To illustrate the point, one of the most leftist parties Austria ever had, the LiF ("liberal forum"), emerged from the FPÖ. So, back in those days, Haider's men, had he died, might have made better, more palatable politics than the man himself.

Fast forward. 1999. As a result of voting and coalition negotiations, the FPÖ made it into the government together with the ÖVP. A lot of noise, including EU-sanctions against Austria, led to Haider not partaking in the government. I don't remember why, but there were out-of-schedule elections in 2002 (about through half the government's term). The result of these elections led to the same co-alition, but apparantly there were problems, since in 2005 the FPÖ split into two parties:

FPÖ

and

BZÖ

The BZÖ was Haider's new party and remained in the government. Most Austrians were upset: neither of the two parties had been voted for, so despite a history of out-of-scheduled elections the public demanded re-elections. This did not happen, and in 2006 we went back to an SPÖ-ÖVP coalition, something that's almost traditional in Austria.

But the government did not last. We've only now had re-elections; it was the hardest election I can remember: nobody knew whom to vote. The big parties had lost the trust of the voters; both FPÖ and BZÖ had a core of voters, but nobody else was much fond of voting for them - though most did in the end. The green party has also recently lost the trust of their voters (and did an abysmal job trying to re-gain it). Many small parties sprang up, etc. I didn't know who to vote for until I stood in the cabin with the pen in my hand.

We're still in the process of coalition negotiations, and since nobody likes anyone else, god knows what will come of this, and whether the government will last. The FPÖ was the third strongest party; BZÖ fourth.

Haider's influence on a national scale had diminished from 1999 onwards, and he was pretty much a political non-entity since 2005, except in Carinthia, "his" homestead.

It's not so much "Who will take over?" but "Who has taken over?" This is the guy, and - yes - he's worse. Much worse. Haider, for all his political posturing, I never saw as a "Nazi"; more of a pop-star cynically using the neo-nazi scene to gain power. Dangerous, sure, but not a fanatic. Mr. Strache on the other hand gives me the creeps.

Now, with Haider's demise, I don't really see a future for the BZÖ. That leaves voters with rightwing tendencies pretty much only the FPÖ, and who knows what will come of this?

Why has the right been so strong in these elections?

1. They got protest voters. Fall-out from the loss of trust the big parties (ÖVP and SPÖ) suffered. They're not more popular than they were; the big parties are less popular. Green could have gained, too, but they actually lost votes. I suppose that's because they managed to upset their own voters much recently, and thus didn't have great support. (If the LiF hadn't come back for that election, I would probably have voted for them, or even the communists.)

2. Headlines such as the Fritzl-case (dad keeps daughter in cellar and has a number of kids with her) have increased the need for security. FPÖ and BZÖ have always taken a higher regulation/harsher punishment line, so that they should gain is no big surpise. The ÖVP tried the line, too, but they weren't too successful with it.

Frankly, Haider's death wasn't that big a deal; I'm afraid of the new guy already (and have been for some time) - and in a way I was never afraid of Haider. As it is, I'm waiting for the conspiracy theorists to mumble about the student offing his traitorous master (not radical enough).

Currently, I'm hoping that the party isn't as bad as its leader. And that the FPÖ doesn't make the government, even though this might mean re-elections in the next year or two...

Oh, where is Waldheim these days?

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Dead.

Norman D Gutter said:

Shame on you. What if I say that about Ted Kennedy when he dies in the near future?

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did ted kennedy ever say that the nazis had "an orderly employment policy"?

or that the concentration camps were "punishment camps"?

anything like that?

this guy was a prick.

good riddance.

Dawnstorm said:

Hi, I'm Austrian, and the situation's quite a bit more complex.

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Thanks for the post. It's a good reminder that things are seldom as simple as they may look from the outside.

Norman D Gutter said:

Shame on you. What if I say that about Ted Kennedy when he dies in the near future?

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My son's girlfriend is Austrian. I too said that someone else is bound to step into his shoes. She said no, there can hardly be anyone worse. She and all herfriends are pretty happy about this. And she is avery mild, sweet natured, loving person.

And by the way, Norman, I stand in everyway behind my words. Austria/the world is a far better place without him. I am very glad he has moved on.

I didn't know the man existed until learning of his death. It sounds like he and David Duke would have gotten along well.

I've never heard of the man before, and know nothing of his party or politics or past.

I just think it's a disgusting attitude to revel in the death of another. Regardless of their politics, etc.

So we will disagree on this. And I stand by my remark. Shame on you, shame on you all.

NDG

if he was killed by someone else, than i wouldve just kept quiet. it wouldve been, yeah he was a prick but no one has the right to kill anyone else.

but he died because he was going 2x the speed limit.

so yeah, no tears here and no shame in me not giving a damn that the world lost this nazi POS.

Don't know that much about the guy, but him being gone doesn't seem like it's any loss for the world.

I'm not celebrating his death, but I'm not about to squirt any tears either.

Norman D Gutter said:

Shame on you. What if I say that about Ted Kennedy when he dies in the near future?

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For that matter, I hardly know anything about Ted Kennedy.

Death is for me not the great drama you make it out to be. Not a thing of terrror, dread or complete annihilation. A mere passing on. I feel sorry and sad when a loved one passes on, and I mourn with their loved ones. If it's a young person, their whole life before them, yes, it's a shame, bur death happens to us all.

You know nothing of me or my attitude to death, How dare you judge? For all you know, I pray for his immortal soul. So I am not going to defend myself against your "shame on you," I feel no shame. Death for me is not intrinsically bad, and I do not fear my own, but in a way look forward to it.

I am sure many Americans were happy to hear of Saddam Hussein's death. Many people here are pro-death-penalty. Do you say "shame on them"? I, by the way, am contra death penatly. But if it's a person's time to die, and that person was a pestilence, then yes, I am glad they have gone on. In my sight they have merely passed to another room. They will get their just deserves.

Norman D Gutter said:

I've never heard of the man before, and know nothing of his party or politics or past.

I just think it's a disgusting attitude to revel in the death of another. Regardless of their politics, etc.

So we will disagree on this. And I stand by my remark. Shame on you, shame on you all.

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And would you say this if it were Osama bin-Laden?

caw

Norman D Gutter said:

I've never heard of the man before, and know nothing of his party or politics or past.

I just think it's a disgusting attitude to revel in the death of another. Regardless of their politics, etc.

So we will disagree on this. And I stand by my remark. Shame on you, shame on you all.

NDG

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Adolf II has passed on and you want people to weep? Will you ask for a candle light vigil when Kim Jong-Il is finally hurled head first into the next bloody world?

Being ignorant of his politics is your burden, not mine, sir.

I am absolutely not sentimental abpout the death of evil political leaders.

My own country had an wicked, corrupt dictator for over 25 years. He led the country into economic chaos, stole taxpayer's money, killed his enemies, and rigged electins blatantly. The country was a shambles.

In 1972 he died during a minro throat operation.

All over the world, people who had fled their homeland rejoiced, holding parties of celebration. A few months later, fair and free elections were held, watched over by Jimmy Carter's election watchdog group.

The well-loved opposition leader was voted into power after 30 years of struggle. At last!

Who would claim that the dictator's death was somehow something to be mourned?

aruna said:

Who would claim that the dictator's death was somehow something to be mourned?

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Who did claim it? I didn't see a call for tears, but maybe I missed it.

Well, we should be grateful that anyone who drives at 2x the speed limit has caused only his own death, and not the deaths of others.

tiny terror said:

Who did claim it? I didn't see a call for tears, but maybe I missed it.

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It's implicit in Norman's "Shame on you" comment.