Purgatory's Pit of Doom

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mario_c

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Speaking of things that wouldn't get made/published today....I watched an interview with Norman Jewison on the weekend for his film "In the Heat of the Night" and he said (with a trace of bitterness) that if brought that script to a major studio today it would get turned down.

I think what he was referring to was the dearth of originality in scripts being bought today. I thought of Mario and his struggles. It ain't you, bud, it's them. Julia Cameron says a similar thing in her memoir.
Wow, thank you for that. I had the opposite response in another thread - after getting near 400 rejections, I have to wonder if it's me after all.
Very true how big studios have become way too cautious. Too quick to run away from anything controversial (unless it's gross out comedy or horror, which is confrontational in a safe junior high way more often than not) and especially drama.* Yet people still seek out challenging and emotionally real entertainment. There's a mental disconnect in "da 'Wood" about what studios think audiences want vs. what they really do want.
It's an uphill struggle, and I'm getting too old and I need some income stat. For my family, for my car, for me having a life and love life. Sitting home alone sending out queries all weekend, every weekend, is a losing proposition.

* For some factual perspective, for those interested: I just landed the Scoggins Report, a grid of what studios bought in 2011. Dramas accounted for 13.2% of sales on pitch (116), while comedies led by 34.9%. Fantasy and horror are dead last with 1% each. I get interesting shit like that through my industry newsletters and tracking boards, like the open jobs grid that lists all the books currently in development at any given time.
 

Amarie

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((((Red)))

Wow, thank you for that. I had the opposite response in another thread - after getting near 400 rejections, I have to wonder if it's me after all.
.

Mario,
I read that other thread and thought about it for a long time. It brings up the question of how long do you follow a dream, especially when you can only control a small part of whether or not that dream comes true. I know nothing about the screenwriting industry, except that it is more impossible than publishing. Clearly, a large part of it is the "them."

I spent several years, four of them with concentrated effort, trying to get an agent for one of my mysteries. I stopped when I went to a conference and had an agent tell me the market then was just about dead for what I was writing, and that some of her current clients were scrambling to write something different. I had long had visions of becoming a mystery author, with a multiple book series, but at that moment decided I needed to shift into something else.

Have you thought about taking any of your screenplays and rewriting them as books? I have no idea how tough that would be, just throwing it out there.


and for me, pittish doctor visit yesterday, bleh.
 

ink wench

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Mario, very interesting. Hollywood, like publishers, seem to only want the Next Big Thing. But since no one can predict that, only the Same Old Thing looks good to them. (Until someone takes a chance on something new and the cycle repeats.)

I think Amarie has a worthwhile idea to consider. Sometimes it helps to shake things up. (Says I, who've tried multiple age groups and genres without any luck.)

(((Amarie))) Sorry for the crappy doc visit.
 

alias octavia

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(((Mario))) How very disheartening.

(((AMarie)))

AND, in the vein of what is being published is the same old thing, I saw this today in the PM deals: "previously published as adult fiction, to be revised and retitled for young adult"

This boggles my mind. Is this going to be a new trend?
 

Teriann

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I was talking to a preschool teacher who'd taken a year off after highschool and was trying to decide what to do about college. She was a very talented artist (I hired her to babysit and she amused my son by drawing in outline whatever he wanted to color -- a dragon fighting a knight in shining armor? No problem.)

she didn't even want to try to beome a fine artist. She said, "Too much competition, and what can I contribute? So many people are doing such brilliant work. It's not like the days when the population was a fraction of what it is now and most people were farmers."

But people don't buy art the way they buy books.

I think publishing has become so myoptic (again, if that's the right word) with such narrow views of what will sell when the population is just not homogenous (is that the right word? I have to stop trying to use big words. My brain is becoming too feeble)

There's just so much competetion. There's this belief that there is lots of drivel and junk out there, so the good stuff rises. I never thought this. I think there's a lot of good stuff out there, really good stuff that would easily have been published in another age.

But Amarie, I would not have taken an agent's word. I would have spent at least 3 months querying editors.

ETA: Did you all know Amazon is now opening a brick and mortar store in Seattle? I said "What are they trying to do? Conquer the world?" My husband, who follows business, said don't laugh. People thought Apple stores would take a dive. Apple opened a store when computer stores were all going out of business, and Apple stores thrived. Amazon may be smart enough to come up with a whole new model.
 
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MercyMe

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Wow, thank you for that. I had the opposite response in another thread - after getting near 400 rejections, I have to wonder if it's me after all.
Very true how big studios have become way too cautious. Too quick to run away from anything controversial (unless it's gross out comedy or horror, which is confrontational in a safe junior high way more often than not) and especially drama.* Yet people still seek out challenging and emotionally real entertainment. There's a mental disconnect in "da 'Wood" about what studios think audiences want vs. what they really do want.
It's an uphill struggle, and I'm getting too old and I need some income stat. For my family, for my car, for me having a life and love life. Sitting home alone sending out queries all weekend, every weekend, is a losing proposition.

* For some factual perspective, for those interested: I just landed the Scoggins Report, a grid of what studios bought in 2011. Dramas accounted for 13.2% of sales on pitch (116), while comedies led by 34.9%. Fantasy and horror are dead last with 1% each. I get interesting shit like that through my industry newsletters and tracking boards, like the open jobs grid that lists all the books currently in development at any given time.

I have to correct myself--it wasn't "In the Heat of the Night"--it was "Moonstruck" Jewison was talking about in the interview. Which is worse because "Heat" was very much a product of its time and "Moonstruck" is about love and death.
Jewison that script would never get picked up today.
 

Red-Green

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From everything I know, it seems like writing screenplays is for the most masochistic among us. That much is evident by the fact that the same dozen or so names appear over and over again in connection withe everything that gets produced. It's a case where even fewer people control what gets to the public than in publishing!
 

Teriann

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From everything I know, it seems like writing screenplays is for the most masochistic among us. That much is evident by the fact that the same dozen or so names appear over and over again in connection withe everything that gets produced. It's a case where even fewer people control what gets to the public than in publishing!

Plus it takes so much to make a movie, like bazillions of dollars, and so many things have to line up. Plus there are so few movies vs. books.

Many years ago I read an article which was darkly hilarious. The reporter went to LA and stopped random people and asked, "How is the screenplay coming along?" 9 out of 10 had an answer.
 

Amarie

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But Amarie, I would not have taken an agent's word. I would have spent at least 3 months querying editors.

ETA: Did you all know Amazon is now opening a brick and mortar store in Seattle? I said "What are they trying to do? Conquer the world?" My husband, who follows business, said don't laugh. People thought Apple stores would take a dive. Apple opened a store when computer stores were all going out of business, and Apple stores thrived. Amazon may be smart enough to come up with a whole new model.


except this was back in about 2006? 2007? and the agent model was the only way we were told that worked then

I didn't know that about the Apple stores. the one at the mall near us is always packed. On a funny related note, I'm getting all these hits on my blog from Saudia Arabia for a post I wrote on the bookstore of the future. wealthy Saudis trying to find ways to spend their money?
 

Teriann

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except this was back in about 2006? 2007? and the agent model was the only way we were told that worked then

I didn't know that about the Apple stores. the one at the mall near us is always packed. On a funny related note, I'm getting all these hits on my blog from Saudia Arabia for a post I wrote on the bookstore of the future. wealthy Saudis trying to find ways to spend their money?

I didn't realize it was so long ago. Wow. You're right -- at that time it didn't even occur to me to query editors myself.

What about children's mysteries? Those were so popular when I was a kid, but you don't hear so much about them now.

The apple stores are roaring success. That was my husband's point. When Apple opened their stores, people said they were crazy. That was when computer stores were all going out of business. Remember those computer stores in the 1990s? YOu could walk in and buy a computer? The internet put those completely out of business. Then Apple opened their store on a whole new model -- people could come in and play with the products.

(Actually, this is a brag about hubby so it doesn't belong in the pit. When apple was getting ready to open their stores, that was way back before the ipad, their stock was way down because people said they were crazy, the Apple computer was going the way of the dinosaur because they couldn't compete with PC's for price. So anyway, hubby bought apple stock. You know what happened next. All I will say is that that apple stock will probably allow him to retire a few years earlier.)

So when hubby heard Amazon was ready to open a brick and mortar bookstore, his first thought was they are modeling on apple success and the store will be a show room where people can come play and not a traditional B and N bookstore. He isn't buying Amazon stock, though. He says it's artificially high right now.
 
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Snappy

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Morning Pitizens. Will catch up but...

(((Red))) repped, but more *hugs*

(((Teri))) (((Amarie))) (((Mario))) and (((Pit - cause why not?)))
 

Red-Green

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For the record, I predicted a good five or six years ago that after Amazon wiped out its competitors that it would open its own brick and mortar stores. Duh, because plenty of people still prefer to shop in stores. There's still money to be made there, of course Amazon wants to make it.
 

Teriann

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I'm predicting that in the next 5 or 6 years there will be an antitrust lawsuit of some kind against Amazon. They're really skirting the line right now, and there's sort of a macho arrogance in their stance and attitude. Microsoft needed to be slapped down,and I'm sure they will too at some point.

They're not being very cooperative with Smashwords, which is sort of a competitor in that Smashwords is making it possible for self-pubbed authors to get into Kobo and Apple and other stores.

Hubby's prediction is that Apple will be the ones to give Amazon a run for its money, and he also thinks in the end, Apple will either win or emerge stronger. Amazon's advantage over B&N is that it is a high tech company. Apple has all the high tech brains Amazon has and then some.

Apple has just released a free app for people to format books for sale in the apple store. You can really do fancy things with the app which are just not possble with the mobi format Amazon uses or even the industry standard epub format used by B and N.

of course, the uses of the app are exclusive to the ipad and apple stores. Watch for Apple to give Amazon some serious competition in the book selling market.
 

Catwoman

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{{Amarie}}

{{Mario}} I agree that the screenwriting business is way harder to break into than publishing. My college boyfriend started writing plays, then screenplays. All he did was work. He was very driven. He went to UCLA for grad school, but after he graduated, all he did was wake up, work his day job, come home, nap and then write. For years.

He eventually got into writing for TV shows, like Buffy and whatever that other one was. Now he's producing Spartacus I think, but the point is he has a stack of screenplays a mile high and still hasn't sold one -- despite his connections.

Nobody wants to take a chance when there is that much money involved in making a film, esp. not with ticket sales being down and all.

If I were going to write a screenplay, I would write something with a juicy role for a somewhat older actress who wants to showcase her talents...something completely fleshed out, with amazing characterization...a rarity in female roles...and I would send it to their production company. Seems like all the major actresses have their own production companies...like Drew Barrymore or someone like that. All actresses say they're starving for roles they can sink their teeth into.

Eh, but what do I know?
 

kellion92

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(((Amarie)))

Mario, I've seen a few deals lately of books from screenwriters -- I bet they didn't start out as novels, but that's how they ended up.

Hugs to Colby on her Pittish birthday.
 

OL

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This will answer all your questions about Hollywood (take it from one who worked there). It's funny too!

IMO, Amazon is being pushed towards bricks & mortar because the other stores won't carry their publishing imprint, and because all of the latest studies, much to some folks' surprise, show that brick & mortar still drives the great majority of book purchases.

This may be un-Pittish but I don't think it's a bad thing for other brick and mortar stores. Amazon plans "boutiques" to focus on their imprints and also a selection of other books -- I'm guessing their top 100s and Best of the Months and so on. It will be somewhat narrowly focused but it's still another outlet for books, and it doesn't take away from what a different focused independent bookstore would draw. Unless they do something really horrendous like deliberately focus on what the neighborhood independent is doing.

I should not have put that thought out into the universe.
 

alias octavia

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I am always for more bookstores. I just wish they were all The Strand or Powells. Big, sprawling with that old book smell...

This week is so pittish all over that having no news feels like it has put me on the + side of things. But there is still time for me to eek down to the - side, it is only Tuesday after all.

Moderately pleasant natal day to you, Colby!

ETA: Bwahaha! OL, that clip is awesome. "It tastes like f%$&ing profit, that's what it tastes like!"
 
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Catwoman

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Haha OL, that video is so full of WIN! That guy is a scary young Tom Cruise.

Happy Birthday, Colby!
 

SteveCordero

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{{{Mario}}}

{{{Colby}}} And Muted Happy Birthday

Good points, OL. Based on what I've read, the backlash against the Amazon exclusives is pushing it to go brick & morter, and also the need to have a physical presence for consumers to test out the Kindles. Best Buy already sells Kindle in its stores and that's where consumers go if they want to try it out. Now they would, presumably, go to these Amazon boutiques.

That said, another thing is that Amazon had not done as well on the Kindle Fire sales as had been projected and the expenditures increase has hit the company's stock hard.
 

MercyMe

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Lisa, that was the funniest thing I've seen in ages. Hollywood studio execs lampooned. They just cry out to be made fun of!
 

Roly

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I think publishing has become so myoptic (again, if that's the right word) with such narrow views of what will sell when the population is just not homogenous (is that the right word? I have to stop trying to use big words. My brain is becoming too feeble)

There's just so much competetion. There's this belief that there is lots of drivel and junk out there, so the good stuff rises. I never thought this. I think there's a lot of good stuff out there, really good stuff that would easily have been published in another age.
mte, Teri. If publishers don't wake up and figure out they're narrowing the field TOO much then...I don't know. I'll shake my fists at them. But I won't stop writing. Bastards can't make me do that.

Also didn't B+N gobble up independents like they were glowy light bobbles in a PacMan game? Why are they suddenly acting like Amazon is this giant evil corporation for potentially wanting to do it to them? Though I'm not an Amazon fan by any means. I want my independents back. But then I haven't been reading up on everything that's going on. Maybe someone can explain it to me really REALLY succinctly if possible (sorry, I read 100s of pages of theory every week and would sometimes just like the cheat sheets)? Perhaps there's a site that kind of outlines the important bits.

Oh, I also heard that B+N wasn't going to sell any books pubbed by Amazon. Yeek (poor MarshallC AW-ers...).
 

kellion92

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Never doubt the Googlefu of the Pit and Purgatory...

(although I would also believe that Cat's bfriend's bio rang a bell for KT, no Googlefu needed. That's true Nerdfu)
 
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