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Rhythm in Prose

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kuwisdelu

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Sure it does; line breaks are a "recent" invention; even after the advent of printed books, poetry was frequently set without them—the convention of short quotes of verse (usually just two or three lines—separated by / is derived from prior convention.

Mmm, you are correct. I should know that since I read metered poetry in languages that still don't use line breaks.

Though there is generally something, whether it's punctuation or diction, etc., that function as similar breaks.

Having not read it, I'm curious how he achieved the effect such that the chapter can be called iambic pentameter versus hexameter, for example. Anyone have an excerpt? Was it just the phraseology?
 
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Scattergorie

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Rhythm is everything to me in writing.

I'm an opera singer, but I love the music in writing more than I have ever loved the music in singing. While I’m writing, I hear actual music, like a reverse synesthesia or maybe just insanity. I’m less interested in the actual words I choose than I am in their rhythmic qualities. The perfect writing, for me, is the kind of lyrical narrative that reads like a song. The rise and fall of the syllables as they crash into one another. The placement of punctuation that can give it a staccato quality, or the run-on sentence that has flashes of allegretto.

I rarely begin writing with an idea – or even more hilariously, a plot. Everything I put on paper starts with a mood or a rhythm. I see the waves of the story rolling before I know which words should ride them. Sometimes I feel like I’m just plugging sounds into their sockets. The letters are secondary. When I make edits to something I’ve written, it’s almost always because the music isn’t right.

This has been a really interesting read, especially technically.

This resonates so strongly with me, and I think it may weigh toward personal preference in prose style.

When I read a sentence or passage that really works for me, the words sing and strike a pleasure center in my brain that, say, technical writing never would.

Many times here I've seen the music edited and tightened right out of a beautiful sentence, and it makes me sad.
 

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Mmm, you are correct. I should know that since I read metered poetry in languages that still don't use line breaks.

Though there is generally something, whether it's punctuation or diction, etc., that function as similar breaks.

Having not read it, I'm curious how he achieved the effect such that the chapter can be called iambic pentameter versus hexameter, for example. Anyone have an excerpt? Was it just the phraseology?

Iamb = weak STRONG stress pattern
Pentameter; 10 iambs before a clausal pause.

Look at blank verse:

Willy the Shakes the birthday boy said:
This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,--
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.

You might as well set it as prose:

Richard II" said:
This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle, this earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, this other Eden, demi-paradise, this fortress built by Nature for herself against infection and the hand of war, this happy breed of men, this little world, this precious stone set in the silver sea, which serves it in the office of a wall or as a moat defensive to a house, against the envy of less happier lands,—this blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.

Notice too that it's not perfect iambic pentameter; the alteration of the expected is, like a chord that isn't resolved, what helps make meter sing.

And there are less metered, measured, examples too: Molly Bloom's "yes" speech at the end of Joyce's Ulysses—

Molly Bloom said:
...I was a Flower of the mountain yes when I put the rose in my hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he kissed me under the Moorish Wall and I thought well as well him as another and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes.
 
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kuwisdelu

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Notice too that it's not perfect iambic pentameter; the alteration of the expected is, like a chord that isn't resolved, what helps make meter sing.

Yes, set in prose, I can see the pentameter in this from the phrasing carrying over from the end-stoppedness of the poem.

And there are less metered, measured, examples too: Molly Bloom's "yes" speech at the end of Joyce's Ulysses—

This one I'm less sure on. Iambic, yes. But what aspects make you call it pentameter? Where do you see the breaks?

It does seems like it's using the refrain of "yes" to break it, and other repetition such as "well as well".

What makes it pentameter versus, say, common meter?
 
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This one I'm less sure on. Iambic, yes. But what aspects make you call it pentameter? Where do you see the breaks?

It does seems like it's using the refrain of "yes" to break it, and other repetition such as "well as well".

What makes it pentameter versus, say, common meter?

No, no, it's not iambic pentameter, it's a deliberate rushed, breathless, onward movement. Part of the sense of movement of rush, is the deliberate violation of iambic anything.
 

kuwisdelu

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No, no, it's not iambic pentameter, it's a deliberate rushed, breathless, onward movement. Part of the sense of movement of rush, is the deliberate violation of iambic anything.

Gotcha. Mostly I was interested in methods of breaking prose, such as the function of "yes" in the speech, which seems to me to serve both to cut the motion and simultaneously push it forward.
 
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Honest Bill

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I think that rhythm is a lot like description, in that the reader will not necessarily read it as you conceived it and intended it to be read. That's a big part of the reason that sometimes you look at something you wrote long ago, and it seems awful and clunky. That's because you are now approaching it as a reader would, as a fresh set of eyes without your earlier conceptions of how it ought to be read.
 

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For me, I just read it out loud and in doing so can intuitively pick up on the rhythm or lack thereof. It's the same with playing music, when I'm playing guitar I tap my feet to the rhythm but if I start trying to count it I lose focus.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I think that rhythm is a lot like description, in that the reader will not necessarily read it as you conceived it and intended it to be read. That's a big part of the reason that sometimes you look at something you wrote long ago, and it seems awful and clunky. That's because you are now approaching it as a reader would, as a fresh set of eyes without your earlier conceptions of how it ought to be read.

Well, maybe, but I think old writing sounds clunky because it usually is clunky. It's more a matter of gained skill, I think.

Rhythm is real, not perceived, and I think most reader break down words in the same way. They can't help but read a one syllable word in a certain way, and a for the great majority, they will read a four sllable word as a four syllable word. They pause slightly for commas, and they stop when they reach a period. They read a four word sentence one way, and a thirty word sentence another way.

It works just like meter in poetry. Some few may read a poem without sticking to the meter, but most will read it as it's meant to be read. The same technique works in prose, if you've trained your ear to hear it.

I don't think I've ever read anything, including my own work, as anything other than a reader. I see no other way of writing well without reading what you write as a reader would.

We may agree on this, but if so it's because writers do not write well, do not write good rhythm and flow, until they learn to read their own writing as a reader would. This happens very, very fast with some writers, and never with others.
 
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